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  1. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    So none of the compositors in MMEP work? Is there anything similar to "ADD". Maybe it struggles because it's 1080? Can you composite a PNG w/alpha premult? Does it work "as is"?

    Last edited by budwzr; 9th Jul 2013 at 11:56.
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  2. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    It looks like none of the lagarith tests worked with alpha channel.

    UT is UT Video Codec, you need that installed for the "25fps_2frames_UT_AVI1.0.avi" test
    https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Ut-Video-Codec-Suite

    I shortened the arrows, and change to 25FPS.

    So the question now is what compressed format works properly in terms of alpha channel support in MEP . Note: These are just 2 frames each to test compression
    You must be as exasperated as me! Talk about elusive...

    None of these worked. Neither the three 2-framers (one of which, the MOV, was totally unrecognised) nor the 2.6 GB. Here's an update in the same format as my summary.

    Post #: 87
    Filename: Post#87-PDR-25fps_2frames_LAGS_AVI1.0.avi
    Size: 148 KB
    FPS: 25
    Imports OK into MEP?: No
    Screenshot(s) in MEP: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/Post%2387-PDR-25fps_2frames_LAGS_AVI1.0.avi.jpg
    Size looks OK?: Yes
    Hr/Min ratio OK?: Can't tell.
    Result example: Not worth showing.
    Any other comments: Shorter minute hand looks good.

    Post #: 87
    Filename: Post#87-PDR-25fps_2frames_png.mov
    Size: 241 KB
    FPS: 25
    Imports OK into MEP?: No
    Screenshot(s) in MEP:
    Size looks OK?: Yes
    Hr/Min ratio OK?: Can't tell.
    Result example:
    Any other comments: Nothing appeared on timeline. No message. Yet played (albeit fleetingly) in VLC and IrfanVie. Wouldn't play in MPC-HC or WMP. QT Player gave 'Error -2048: Couldn't open the file QuickTimePlayer.exe because it is not a file that QuickTime understands,' but then proceeded to play it!

    Post #: 87
    Filename: Post#87-PDR-25fps_2frames_UT_AVI1.0.avi
    Size: 576 KB
    FPS: 25
    Imports OK into MEP?: No
    Screenshot(s) in MEP: Same as Post#87-PDR-25fps_2frames_LAGS_AVI1.0.avi
    Size looks OK?: Yes
    Hr/Min ratio OK?: Can't tell.
    Result example: Not worth showing.
    Any other comments:

    Post #: 88
    Filename: Post#88-PDR-25fps_uncompressed_premult.avi
    Size: 2.6 GB
    FPS: 25
    Imports OK into MEP?: No
    Screenshot(s) in MEP:
    Size looks OK?:
    Hr/Min ratio OK?:
    Result example:
    Any other comments: Crashes MEP. No message, but hour glass runs indefinitely and status bar reports 'Initialising Audio Decoder (please wait)'. Had to forcibly close MEP.


    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  3. Post#88 should work if the one jagabo uploaded earlier worked.

    PM and ask him what he did exactly with the orginal QT animation version, or how he generated it

    Try taking the one in post #88 and using vdub either save old format avi, or normally (with video=>direct stream copy)
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  4. Originally Posted by budwzr View Post
    So none of the compositors in MMEP work? Is there anything similar to "ADD".
    Don't follow.

    Maybe it struggles because it's 1080?
    That's a thought. So I just tried switching my project settings to 1280 x 720 instead of my usual 1920 x 1080 and tried PDR's 4 files and yours again. Unfortunately no change.

    Can you composite a PNG w/alpha premult? Does it work "as is"?

    Don't follow.

    What is another word for 'composite'? Do you mean open? render?

    I can work with PNG stills with alpha, if that's what you mean?

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  5. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    An "ADD" let's you get rid of the black background automatically, and places the non-black "ATOP" the track under.

    "Composite" or "Compositing" means flattening the layers into one. Like when you're working in a graphics editor, and you have different layers going. It's the secret craft, like magic, that you don't find much info about online, except the basics. Nobody lets out their good stuff. That's why if you look it up, there's not much to find.

    There's a lot of esoteric lingo, that only compositors understand, like a "Convolve", hahaha, or a "Convolution Kernal". Or an "Ambient Occlusion", hahaha. It's extremely interesting and rewarding though, if you catch the passion. You become the master of the universe in terms of video editing. Totally FREE to do WHATEVER YOU want, not what the software dictates.

    I can sense that you might be a candidate for this stuff, but the MMEP terminology is like a different language. Everyone else here is quite clear with each other. They're trying to throw every possible format in hopes ONE of them sticks.

    So far, MMEP is like herding cats. If you were using Vegas or Premiere, you'd be all set by now and happily showing off your work to the fam.

    Last edited by budwzr; 9th Jul 2013 at 14:32.
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  6. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    It looks like none of the lagarith tests worked with alpha channel.

    UT is UT Video Codec, you need that installed for the "25fps_2frames_UT_AVI1.0.avi" test
    https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Ut-Video-Codec-Suite
    I installed that before my tests, which as reported failed.

    Vdub now appears to be refusing to save to 'old format' AVI. Just hangs while consuming 25% of CPU. Including the 2.6 GB Post#48-PDR-uncompressed_premultiplied.avi which I successfully saved before as Post#68-Terry-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW-OldFormat.avi

    I'll try uninstalling UT, in case somehow that's causing this odd issue.

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  7. I don't see why it doesn't work, but here's pdr's video from post #88, saved uncompressed ARGB by VirtualDub (in a zip file). And saved by VirtualDub with lagarith in ARGB mode.
    Image Attached Files
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  8. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I don't see why it doesn't work, but here's pdr's video from post #88, saved uncompressed ARGB by VirtualDub (in a zip file). And saved by VirtualDub with lagarith in ARGB mode.
    Thanks, appreciate that. I'll try those in the morning.

    Probably unrelated but before leaving my PC tonight I was getting strange behaviour from VirtualDub. It would no longer save in old format, or indeed in normal format, or Direct Stream Copy. Any of the AVIs i tried, not just those associated with this clock project. Rebooting the PC didn't fix it.

    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  9. Can others save these various files we've been discussing OK in VirtualDub? Whenever I attempt to do so, in 1.9.11 or 1.9.8, Vdub freezes.

    Restored registry to a day or two ago, no change. Will now restore to earlier.

    Have posted in Vdub forum.

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  10. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    I don't see why it doesn't work, but here's pdr's video from post #88, saved uncompressed ARGB by VirtualDub (in a zip file). And saved by VirtualDub with lagarith in ARGB mode.
    Yes!

    Thanks a bunch for that dual co-operation both. See update to my summary in Post #85.

    I hate unresolved puzzles so if I can fix my Vdub problem I'll try converting PDR's original myself as suggested and test that too. It may well prove to be down to some problem at my end rather than with your file, PDR.

    Then I reckon I should leave you guys in peace. For a while anyway.

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  11. I have no idea why VirtualDub is giving you problems. Here's what I did in VirtualDub with pdr's video:

    1) File -> Open Video File
    2) Video -> Color Depth -> 32 bit RGB (888) (dummy alpha channel) for both Decompression and Output formats.
    3) Video -> Fast Recompress
    4) Video -> Compression -> Uncompressed RGB/YCbCr
    5) File -> Save as AVI
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  12. At first I though it was MEP being a flaky program - because all the videos work in a variety of programs on different computers without problems or hassle. Vdub works with all of them too (especially the AVI files, the MOV's require a plugin for vdub to open)

    But it might actually be something messed up with your computer configuration, or that might be some contributing factor ( I wouldn't let MEP off the hook completely)
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  13. The problem affects all files! Not connected to MEP or clocks. Old files and recent files, the lot.

    And the crash (locking up PC) occurs even if I click Cancel instead of Save. Even if no change to the filename has been made.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461...veProblem-1.jpg

    Same with 1.9.8

    Yet I can save as usual from VirtualDubMod 2.5.4.2.

    I re-installed 1.9.11 but no change.

    Certainly looks like a PC configuration issue as you say, the cause of which for the moment is a mystery.

    I'm baffled and at a dead end. I'll restore registry to 3 or 4 days ago and report back.

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  14. Yes, there's something seriously wrong with your computer.
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  15. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Houston, there's a problem!
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  16. Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Yes, there's something seriously wrong with your computer.
    The weird thing is that, so far at least, this Vdub crashing after opening the file save browser is the only symptom.

    A registry restore back to Sunday made no difference.

    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  17. Very bizarre...



    I re-installed 1.9.11 but no change.
    vdub isn't installed; do you mean you just re-downloaded it ? Try placing it in a different location/ different folder /different hdd



    Is any other program affected ? e.g. media players ? MEP ? or is only vdub affected ?


    A registry restore back to Sunday made no difference.
    Is that a full restore (e.g. from a drive image), or just registry ?
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  18. Do you guys use Procmon?

    In an attempt to isolate my VDub problem I started it, stopped events, cleared the entries and added a filter to show only Process Name = VirtualDub.exe

    I then opened an old, small AVI (nothing to do with this thread) in VirtualDub 1.9.11.

    I then started Procmon capture and quickly performed the following operations, in about 10 secs.

    In VDub I used File > Save as AVI file (F7) and then clicked Cancel in the resulting dialog. Vdub then froze as usual. I then stopped Procmon capture and used XP Task Mgr to close VDub.

    I rarely use Procmon because its results are almost entirely obscure to me. But this time I hope it might may offer some clue as to what's causing the crash. The most striking thing is that a pair of entries involving one of the 2.6 GB clock files accounted for all the activity apart from the first few seconds, presumably from when I clicked Cancel.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	VDub-Procmon.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	426.0 KB
ID:	18815

    I repeated it with several other old AVI files from 5 to 1 years old and from a variety of folders. All gave the same result. In one of the exercises I added another filter:
    Path = C:\Docs\My Videos\Clocks\Post#42-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi
    and saved the Procmon log file, as both a PML and a CSV file. If you're interested they are uploaded here:

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/VdubPuzzle-ProcmonLog2.PML


    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/VdubPuzzle-ProcmonLog2.CSV


    I'm off to get some dinner but will pursue this further.

    Needless to say any feedback would be appreciated.


    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  19. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Very bizarre...



    I re-installed 1.9.11 but no change.
    vdub isn't installed; do you mean you just re-downloaded it ? Try placing it in a different location/ different folder /different hdd

    Yes, I just unzipped the 1.9.11 setup file and copied everything across.

    Is any other program affected ? e.g. media players ? MEP ? or is only vdub affected ?
    Only VDub as far as I know.

    A registry restore back to Sunday made no difference.
    Is that a full restore (e.g. from a drive image), or just registry ?
    Just the registry, using ERDNT.

    See also my latest post.

    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  20. Originally Posted by terrypin View Post
    :
    Path = C:\Docs\My Videos\Clocks\Post#42-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi
    and saved the Procmon log file, as both a PML and a CSV file. If you're interested they are uploaded here:

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/VdubPuzzle-ProcmonLog2.PML


    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/VdubPuzzle-ProcmonLog2.CSV


    I'm off to get some dinner but will pursue this further.

    Needless to say any feedback would be appreciated.
    I think that filename was the one I tried to give when saving PDR's file to'Old format' in VDub, which as you may recall crashed

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK[/QUOTE]
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  21. Sorted!

    I deleted the implicated file C:\Docs\My Videos\Clocks\Post#42-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi and for good measure renamed the \Clocks folder to \Clock Videos.

    Voila - normal operation is back.

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  22. [QUOTE=terrypin;2253372]
    Originally Posted by terrypin View Post
    :
    Path = C:\Docs\My Videos\Clocks\Post#42-PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi

    I think that filename was the one I tried to give when saving PDR's file to'Old format' in VDub, which as you may recall crashed
    No, I was wrong about its source. The file was the result of unpacking uncompressed_AVI_premultiplied_black_on_white.7z attached by PDR in post #48. I renamed the 2.6 GB file to PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi (Later adding the wrong post number 42 for my re-tests and Summary in post#85; it should have been 48. I'll leave it now to avoid even greater confusion!)

    As reported in post#55, "Unfortunately PDR-Uncomp-Premult-BW.avi crashed MEP. Got the hour glass indefinitely so forcibly closed MEP after 5-10 minutes."

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK

    Last edited by terrypin; 11th Jul 2013 at 03:25.
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  23. In case anyone here still shares my curiosity about this side issue...

    As well as reporting it here (and to Magix Technical Support) I also posted details of my Procmon analysis in the VirtuaDub forum, where I had this reply:

    "I ran procmon on VirtualDub, Save As, Cancel and am amazed at the number of system and 3rd party DLLs activated just to view ONE folder in a dialog box. Any app that has a shell extension feature (whether visible or not - eg certain *adobe* background DRM processes) is consulted. Certain file types required calling the associated app (MPC-HC in my case) to render the icon - never mind thumbnails, which I've disabled. Thumbnails require 3rd party codecs and can introduce instability - like freezing up."

    --
    Terry, East Grinstead, UK
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  24. Yes, the File Open dialog uses Explorer to do all its work. So all those shell extensions get called to build the list of files and properties. For example, if I recall correctly, PicVideo's MJPEG codec had a problem that caused Explorer to lock up. Any time you opened a folder with a file that caused PicVideo's shell extension to be called the computer would lock up requiring a reboot. There used to be lots of posts here regarding files that couldn't be deleted because of this.
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