Editing and converting DVDs created with Magnavox HDD DVD

[JPowers]

I'm in the process of copying my VHS tapes using a VCR connected to a Magnavox MDR535H. It copies to the hard drive, then you can burn the titles to DVD. My problem is that I assumed the titles would be in some format that I could copy and paste to the hard drive on my computer. Instead, it created a regular DVD menu system with VOBs, so you can play it in any DVD player.

What I'd like to do is be able to edit commercials, etc., out of the individual titles, then convert the titles to a LOSSLESS video format that can be clicked individually. I guess I could copy the VOBs manually, then use VobBlanker, but that's kind of cumbersome, and I'm still stuck with VOBs. Could you guys/guyettes recommend some programs for me to look into? I'd really appreciate it, thanks!

[manono]

I understood very little of what you wrote and found it utterly confusing.

My problem is that I assumed the titles would be in some format that I could copy and paste to the hard drive on my computer. Instead, it created a regular DVD menu system with VOBs, so you can play it in any DVD player.

Are you saying you can't copy the DVD to the hard drive? You can't put the DVD in the drive and copy and paste? If not, why not?

What I'd like to do is be able to edit commercials, etc., out of the individual titles

I probably would use VobBlanker. However, MPEG2Cut2 can also cut and rejoin the rest pretty easily. It cuts on GOPs and gives you back an MPG. If the final goal is DVD, you'd have to demux (unless reauthoring with a program that supports MPG input) and then reauthor with Muxman or some such.

For commercial products, you might try VideoRedo. It has a trial period and is frame-accurate (the 'Plus' version is) if the cut has to be made between GOPs.

...then convert the titles to a LOSSLESS video format that can be clicked individually.

Another part I can't begin to understand. You can easily convert to a lossless codec. But to 'be clicked individually'? What does that mean. And if the ultimate goal is another DVD, you'll have to encode it again afterwards, and that's not lossless.

[sanlyn]

I make those HDD->PC-edit->Reauthor trips hundreds of times. No, there's no way to tell your Magnavox to make a straight copy of video to a plain MPG. Like all DVD recorders, it was not designed as a full-fledged video processor. It was designed to record MPEG2 and to organize them into playable DVD's.

You get those VOB's into your computer using the software manono mentioned. You need a smart rendering MPEG editor that doesn't re-encode your entire video but only re-renders a few key frames near the edit points and creates new GOP's for you. Most free MPEG editors and many paid ones will re-render your entire video (considering that VHS-direct-to-DVD is a noisy transfer to begin with, any full re-rendering would look rather awful). After cuts and joins, you need to re-author your MPEG's for DVD. I use TMPGenc software for this entire process, including import of VOB's to my computer.

As for the last part about clicking lossless codecs one at a time, as manono says -- that makes no sense. A 90-minute DVD decoded into a lossless format would be about 40GB to 60GB in size.

[enim]

It's already been said enough by manono and sanlyn.

What I'd like to do is be able to edit commercials, etc., out of the individual titles, then convert the titles to a LOSSLESS video format that can be clicked individually.

You need mpeg/vob editor. You have to strip-out commercials manually. Some editors are capable of smart-rendering without re-encoding, in this case it's lossless, same as your source.

so you can play it in any DVD player.

You have to re-author DVD as suggested, once you edit VOBs.

[hech54]

I'm in the process of copying my VHS tapes using a VCR connected to a Magnavox MDR535H. It copies to the hard drive, then you can burn the titles to DVD. My problem is that I assumed the titles would be in some format that I could copy and paste to the hard drive on my computer. Instead, it created a regular DVD menu system with VOBs, so you can play it in any DVD player.

What I'd like to do is be able to edit commercials, etc., out of the individual titles, then convert the titles to a LOSSLESS video format that can be clicked individually. I guess I could copy the VOBs manually, then use VobBlanker, but that's kind of cumbersome, and I'm still stuck with VOBs. Could you guys/guyettes recommend some programs for me to look into? I'd really appreciate it, thanks!

DVD is MPEG
DVDs contain MPEG video.
DVD recorders record in MPEG(inbound, in real time, via hardware/circuit board encoding).
VOBs contain MPEG video.
Some DVD recorders offer XP "speed" MPEG recording (1 hour of video and audio per single layer DVD) - it pushes the combined bitrate of video and audio to the upper limits what DVD can contain. See here:
https://www.videohelp.com/dvd#tech
If this XP speed/mode is available, that is the best quality you can expect to get from the DVD recorder.
The higher the bitrate(see XP mode), the less video(running time) you can fit on a DVD.
The End.

[JPowers]

Thank you for all the help. Sorry if I didn't explain myself very well. I have miscellaneous things that I recorded on my VCR from as far back as 1988. I don't want it lumped together or necessarily play it on DVD. What I mean by clicked individually is that I'd like to edit and separate certain video segments so that I can have .avi files, or whatever to click on my PC and play them without having sort through an entire DVDs worth of videos that don't go together.

A 90-minute DVD decoded into a lossless format would be about 40GB to 60GB in size.

I didn't realize that. The picture is already pretty poor and I don't want to make it any worse. You're saying that if I convert it to a format that doesn't compress the files, it's going to be a ridiculous size?

If DVD is MPEG video, that's fine. I'll keep them as MPEG. When you say that VOBs "contain" MPEG, does that mean they can't just be renamed with the .mpg extension and play?

You get those VOB's into your computer using the software manono mentioned. You need a smart rendering MPEG editor that doesn't re-encode your entire video but only re-renders a few key frames near the edit points and creates new GOP's for you. Most free MPEG editors and many paid ones will re-render your entire video (considering that VHS-direct-to-DVD is a noisy transfer to begin with, any full re-rendering would look rather awful). After cuts and joins, you need to re-author your MPEG's for DVD. I use TMPGenc software for this entire process, including import of VOB's to my computer.

I looked at TMPGenc last night, and wasn't sure if the free version would be good enough, or if I should get one of the paid versions.

[Kerry56]

If you want mpeg files from the vob files you have now, use a free tool called Vob2Mpg. This will merge the vob files together seamlessly and output as mpeg2 with no loss of quality.

If you want to edit the mpeg files, I'd use a tool designed for that format. I use VideoReDo TV Suite, which will do smart re-encodes around the cut points. This is not a free tool, but the trial is fully functional and lasts 30 days I think.

[hech54]

If DVD is MPEG video, that's fine. I'll keep them as MPEG. When you say that VOBs "contain" MPEG, does that mean they can't just be renamed with the .mpg extension and play?

Sometimes.....but not very often. Plenty of free software like VOB2MPEG can do it properly.

I looked at TMPGenc last night, and wasn't sure if the free version would be good enough, or if I should get one of the paid versions.

You don't need TMPGenc to author a DVD, you just said this:

What I mean by clicked individually is that I'd like to edit and separate certain video segments so that I can have .avi files, or whatever to click on my PC and play them without having sort through an entire DVDs worth of videos that don't go together.

[sanlyn]

I looked at TMPGenc last night, and wasn't sure if the free version would be good enough, or if I should get one of the paid versions.

The free version of MPEG (TMPGenc 2.5) is an encoder, not an editor. TMPGenc's MPEG + h264 editor is Smart Renderer 4. I've had success with their popular products for years and they've been around quite a while, but there are other editors. Try AviDemux or MPEG StreamClip, or any of many free and paid MPEG editors listed in the forum Tools section. Watch it, though -- some of the "editors" will re-encode everything you feed them, which is NOT what you want. Just save the edits as MPEG in their original condition.

Yes, you can change a VOB filename to MPEG, but some editors will balk at that. Lots of apps can pull VOB's off a DVD disc and change their header info properly for MPEG. I haven't used the free VOB->MPEG apps, but I believe manono referred to a popular one.

[usually_quiet]

Thank you for all the help. Sorry if I didn't explain myself very well. I have miscellaneous things that I recorded on my VCR from as far back as 1988. I don't want it lumped together or necessarily play it on DVD. What I mean by clicked individually is that I'd like to edit and separate certain video segments so that I can have .avi files, or whatever to click on my PC and play them without having sort through an entire DVDs worth of videos that don't go together.

A 90-minute DVD decoded into a lossless format would be about 40GB to 60GB in size.

I didn't realize that. The picture is already pretty poor and I don't want to make it any worse. You're saying that if I convert it to a format that doesn't compress the files, it's going to be a ridiculous size?

If DVD is MPEG video, that's fine. I'll keep them as MPEG. When you say that VOBs "contain" MPEG, does that mean they can't just be renamed with the .mpg extension and play?

You get those VOB's into your computer using the software manono mentioned. You need a smart rendering MPEG editor that doesn't re-encode your entire video but only re-renders a few key frames near the edit points and creates new GOP's for you. Most free MPEG editors and many paid ones will re-render your entire video (considering that VHS-direct-to-DVD is a noisy transfer to begin with, any full re-rendering would look rather awful). After cuts and joins, you need to re-author your MPEG's for DVD. I use TMPGenc software for this entire process, including import of VOB's to my computer.

I looked at TMPGenc last night, and wasn't sure if the free version would be good enough, or if I should get one of the paid versions.

Since DVDs use MPEG-2 video, and .avi files are not used for MPEG-2 video, I would use .mpg instead to avoid re-encoding the video to be compatible with an .avi file. You need a paid version of TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer, TMPGenc Video Mastering Works or TMPGEnc Authoring Works to edit MPEG-2 files.

This is what I do.

1. Dub recordings from the DVD recorder's HDD to DVD+RW or DVD-RW.
2. Use VOB2MPG in IFO mode to create an .mpg on my PC's HDD for each recording on the DVD. The conversion to .mpg is a lossless process that simply copies the audio and video to a new container. Files stored on the HDD are easier to scroll through while editing.
3. To remove commercials from the the .mpg I use VideoReDo Plus ($50). Any other MPEG-2 editor, such as MPEG2Cut2 or TMPGenc, that does not re-encode the whole file would be fine too.
4. Save edited file on PC hard drive as a new .mpg.
5. Delete the original, unedited .mpg.

[sanlyn]

.... TMPGenc Video Mastering Works ....

All good advice, both free and paid. But Mastering Works will re-encode. Stick with Smart Renderer 4 for edits and for assembling new MPEG and other formats if you don't want a re-encode. The free apps work, too. Note that all smart rendering editors will re-render sections of stuff that you mod to the original, such as fadeouts, dissolves, and other effects; the effect will have to be re-rendered as well. Smart Renderer can also edit h264 encodes fairly well, but is better with MPEG2.

Mastering Works is the successor to the TMPGenc Express v4 MPEG Encoder, which a long time ago began life as TMPGenc Plus 2.5. The original 2.5 was a better encoder for MPEG2/MPEG1.

[orsetto]

Just be aware that the Magnavox recorders use a slightly off-kilter format to burn their DVDs, called VR+. Generally this does not cause any issues, as DVDs finalized on the Magnavox (with menu) are usually recognized and played as ordinary DVDs by just about any hardware or software. But this VR+ format has been known to give people fits when they try to rip the DVD contents to their PC for additional editing or conversions, as you seem to want to do.

If any glitches come up, the most comprehensive collection of tips for handling Magnavox DVD files on a PC can be found here.

[usually_quiet]

.... TMPGenc Video Mastering Works ....

All good advice, both free and paid. But Mastering Works will re-encode. Stick with Smart Renderer 4 for edits and for assembling new MPEG and other formats if you don't want a re-encode. The free apps work, too. Note that all smart rendering editors will re-render sections of stuff that you mod to the original, such as fadeouts, dissolves, and other effects; the effect will have to be re-rendered as well. Smart Renderer can also edit h264 encodes fairly well, but is better with MPEG2.

Mastering Works is the successor to the TMPGenc Express v4 MPEG Encoder, which a long time ago began life as TMPGenc Plus 2.5. The original 2.5 was a better encoder for MPEG2/MPEG1 but wasn't geared up for Dolby Digital audio (PCM or Layer II only).

TMPGEnc Authoring Works 5's editor also supports Smart Rendering for MPEG-2 and H.264/AVC. Mastering Works is the only one of the three TMPGEnc products I listed that provides an MPEG-2 editor, but does not allow Smart Rendering.

[sanlyn]

Just be aware that the Magnavox recorders use a slightly off-kilter format to burn their DVDs, called VR+.

TMPGenc's editors can import VR+.

[sanlyn]

TMPGEnc Authoring Works 5's editor also supports Smart Rendering for MPEG-2 and H.264/AVC. Mastering Works is the only one of the three TMPGEnc products I listed that provides an MPEG-2 editor, but does not allow Smart Rendering.

True.

[usually_quiet]

TMPGEnc Authoring Works 5's editor also supports Smart Rendering for MPEG-2 and H.264/AVC. Mastering Works is the only one of the three TMPGEnc products I listed that provides an MPEG-2 editor, but does not allow Smart Rendering.

True.

Authoring Works edits only on key frames. .

Are you sure that is true for TMPGEnc Authoring Works 5? There is not much point in adding a smart encoding engine to a program that only allows cutting on keyframes. The old Tsunami DVD Author and most freeware MPEG-2 editors cut only on key frames and they cannot re-encode at all.

[sanlyn]

You're right, I should be more specific. Authoring Works 5 has smart rendering. Previous versions weren't frame-specific, so make sure it's v5 and not 3 or 4 that's still sold in boxes at clearance sites. People get scammed with torrent downloads of v4 with claims about free license cracks, and other sources for trials that should have been purged from servers. I'll elaborate in my earlier post. Thanks for spotting it.

[JPowers]

VideoReDo seems to be the best choice for what I'm trying to accomplish. TMPGEnc's programs seem like they're targeted more towards advanced users. As long as the results from VideoReDo will have the same quality, I'll probably get that. I just want to verify that VideoReDo won't re-encode the entire file after editing. Is this what you guys were referring to as "smart rendering?"

[usually_quiet]

VideoReDo seems to be the best choice for what I'm trying to accomplish. TMPGEnc's programs seem like they're targeted more towards advanced users. As long as the results from VideoReDo will have the same quality, I'll probably get that. I just want to verify that VideoReDo won't re-encode the entire file after editing. Is this what you guys were referring to as "smart rendering?"

I can confirm that VideoReDo only re-encodes incomplete GOPs adjacent to the cut points, assuming there are any incomplete GOPs. Sometimes cut points will be located on GOP boundaries, and there will be no incomplete GOPs. In that case VideoReDo won't re-encode any GOPs. (MPEG-2 GOPs are typically made up of 12 or 15 frames, and about 1/2 of a second worth of video.)

[JPowers]

I can confirm that VideoReDo only re-encodes incomplete GOPs adjacent to the cut points, assuming there are any incomplete GOPs. Sometimes cut points will be located on GOP boundaries, and there will be no incomplete GOPs. In that case VideoReDo won't re-encode any GOPs. (MPEG-2 GOPs are typically made up of 12 or 15 frames, and about 1/2 of a second worth of video.)

Perfect, thank you! Thanks again to everyone else! You've been extremely helpful.

[DarrellS]

Videoredo TV Suite is your best option. Not only does it do exact frame editing with smart render but it has quick fix that ensures that your videos are in sync. Quick fix saves to an mpeg2 file without re-encoding.

You could try spending hours (or days) trying to use free programs to cut commercials and fix the out of sync files or you can use the best program there is for working with movies recorded on a DVD recorder or a capture device like the Hauppauge 1212.