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  1. Member
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    I remember what you answer that for now THERE ISN'T ANY WAY TO REMOVE CINAVIA PROTECTION.
    So this is still on.
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  2. Cinavia only works when your player has cinavia detectors. If you dont use cinavia players, copy and convert cinavia discs into videos to play them on PC. Cinavia will not make sense. Feel free about it.
    Real media really matters. Just get BD DVD discs and say NO to online stream media.
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  3. Banned
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    Sell your stuff somewhere else

    /Baldrick
    Last edited by Baldrick; 8th Sep 2014 at 03:35.
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  4. I remember a few years ago there was a video wrapper called Vodei codec,there was a solution found,it was called Vodei crap removal with instructions and with the use of a program called Graphedit thru a series of filters an bypass.Maybe somebody a lot more techsavvy than me can have a look at it and see if it can be use for cinavia.
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  5. Banned
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    You're new, so you don't understand how Cinavia works or why that won't work. I'll explain briefly, although if you had read more in this thread and others on Cinavia, you would already know why.

    Cinavia is an audio watermark. It only exists on the audio files. We know only that it seems that it can't be heard by humans but the watermark exists in the portions of the audio inside average human hearing. So for example, if it was a watermark that only existed above 30,000 Hz (this is far beyond human hearing) it would be trivial to re-encode the audio with a filter on the higher frequencies and remove it. We know of no way to extract only the Cinavia parts from audio and it may not ever be possible to do so. We're not completely sure (as far as I know) that the Cinavia specifc parts of the audio can even be identified by people like us. If we can't identify it, we sure can't do anything to get rid of it. The amount of secrecy around exactly how it works and is detected is government level high, which to me suggests that very few people truly understand the inner workings and it's relatively easy to ensure that they don't talk. For example, if only 5 people know how it truly works and the word gets out, with 5 suspects it's pretty easy to narrow down who talked.

    The only technique that works is that if certain destructive audio filters are placed on a Cinavia infected audio file and the audio is re-encoded, the Cinavia specific portions of the audio are ruined so that they cannot be detected by Cinavia obeying hardware/software. They are NOT removed, they are rendered undetectable by ruining the audio. The audio cannot be completely repaired from this step and while it is possible to undo some of the damage from the Cinavia detection destroying work, it is NOT possible to completely undo it. Most people can easily tell that the audio is messed up. A few weirdos may not care, but most people will care and find this to be an unacceptable "solution".
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  6. Member wulf109's Avatar
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    In the old days of Quadrafonic 4-channel music they used multiplexing to put the rear channels in the 20-40mhz range. You then used a special decoder,SQ,QS,CD-4(RCA) or Derived 2 channel to decode the rear channels. Are you saying that cinavia uses a similar method?
    Last edited by wulf109; 17th Dec 2014 at 17:22.
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  7. Go hunting through the Sony hack files that have been released for more clues ... especially the one called "spe_05" which has a folder name "AACS" might be a good place to look for a folder called "Cinavia".
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  9. Member
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    Hey Noahtuck

    That horse looks kinda dead to me, and he's still beating it to death.
    Is he gone?
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  10. Originally Posted by gonca View Post
    Hey Noahtuck

    That horse looks kinda dead to me, and he's still beating it to death.
    Maybe you're not familiar with the idiomatic phrase: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse
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  11. Member
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by gonca View Post
    Hey Noahtuck

    That horse looks kinda dead to me, and he's still beating it to death.
    Maybe you're not familiar with the idiomatic phrase: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse
    Actually I am, that's why the wink.
    Just trying to make it obvious to hotblu
    Is he gone?
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  12. Let me ask you all a different question.

    Have those of you that think I'm beating a dead horse actually looked inside of the files that have been released so far?
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    Dead horse

    Name:  elmers1 copy.jpg
Views: 1336
Size:  33.6 KB
    Is he gone?
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  14. DECEASED
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    Originally Posted by hotblu View Post
    Let me ask you all a different question.

    Have those of you that think I'm beating a dead horse actually looked inside of the files that have been released so far?
    Well, I have just discovered that the "spe_05" thing is a 5GB multipart RAR file...

    therefore my answer is "thanks, but NO, thanks".
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  15. Member netmask56's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by johnsonchang View Post
    Cinavia only works when your player has cinavia detectors. If you dont use cinavia players, copy and convert cinavia discs into videos to play them on PC. Cinavia will not make sense. Feel free about it.
    I suppose if one could get hold of the circuit diagram of the detector electronics then one could possibly find a viable solution? But then it may be possible to mod a player to remove that part of the circuitry?
    BeyonWiz T3 PVR ~ Popcorn A-500 ~ Samsung ES8000 65" LED TV ~ Windows 7 64bit ~ Yamaha RX-A1070 ~ QnapTS851-4G
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  16. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    @hotblu, I think you need to open one of those files and tell us what it does. Perhaps "deleteALL.exe" or "dban.exe"...



    Scott
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  17. Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    You're new, so you don't understand how Cinavia works or why that won't work. I'll explain briefly, although if you had read more in this thread and others on Cinavia, you would already know why.

    Cinavia is an audio watermark. It only exists on the audio files. We know only that it seems that it can't be heard by humans but the watermark exists in the portions of the audio inside average human hearing. So for example, if it was a watermark that only existed above 30,000 Hz (this is far beyond human hearing) it would be trivial to re-encode the audio with a filter on the higher frequencies and remove it. We know of no way to extract only the Cinavia parts from audio and it may not ever be possible to do so. We're not completely sure (as far as I know) that the Cinavia specifc parts of the audio can even be identified by people like us. If we can't identify it, we sure can't do anything to get rid of it. The amount of secrecy around exactly how it works and is detected is government level high, which to me suggests that very few people truly understand the inner workings and it's relatively easy to ensure that they don't talk. For example, if only 5 people know how it truly works and the word gets out, with 5 suspects it's pretty easy to narrow down who talked.

    The only technique that works is that if certain destructive audio filters are placed on a Cinavia infected audio file and the audio is re-encoded, the Cinavia specific portions of the audio are ruined so that they cannot be detected by Cinavia obeying hardware/software. They are NOT removed, they are rendered undetectable by ruining the audio. The audio cannot be completely repaired from this step and while it is possible to undo some of the damage from the Cinavia detection destroying work, it is NOT possible to completely undo it. Most people can easily tell that the audio is messed up. A few weirdos may not care, but most people will care and find this to be an unacceptable "solution".
    Cinavia store code in phase changes in spectrum over 7kHz.

    code sequence (i assume relatively low speed - few tens bits per second perhaps or less) is spread with direct code spread spectrum method and it is used to modulate phase for audio signals in upper audio part. Modulation depth is relatively low depth (so ear can't perceive such modulation - we already knows that human ear is "insensitive" for phase changes around +-10 deg).
    With relatively low speed of changes this is not/shouldn't be perceived by human ear.
    Decoding is done by i assume self correlation (see sliding correlator approach).

    What can works with Cinavia is:

    Best method - detect Cinavia, apply phase changes with opposite sign i.e. restore original audio signal and efficiently remove Cinavia.

    Worse method - apply to signal a low pass filter up to the point where Cinavia no longer works, extrapolate by Spectral Band Replication algorithm removed part of spectrum.

    Perhaps applying SBR to original signal (mixing wet/dry) to point where SNR will be insufficient to reliable Cinavia detection (as any data transmission bellow some SNR Cinavia detection will fail - i assume spreading of Cinavia is sufficient to provide protection able to survive microphone recording i.e. i assume Cinavia is robust and perhaps SNR can be lower than 0 - nothing fancy in spread spectrum world).

    Perhaps correlation between channels may improve Cinavia detection - anyway if Open Source World will be able to create robust Cinavia detection algorithm then applying correction to nullify Cinavia will be piece of cake/easy pie.

    Btw.

    Going for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour i would say that best place to allocate Cinavia will be somewhere between 8 and 11kHz. Perhaps removing this part of spectrum can be sufficient (but designing such protection i would go for more robust coding and use also other parts of spectrum), area between 1 and 5kHz is very sensitive as human ear can perceive phase difference around +-1..2 deg.
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  18. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    @hotblu, I think you need to open one of those files and tell us what it does. Perhaps "deleteALL.exe" or "dban.exe"...



    Scott

    I don't need to, someone else already has and posted analysis of what's in them.

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/353091-How-to-remove-Cinavia-protection?p=2363814#post2363814

    ... let me know if any of you still think I'm flogging a dead horse.
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  19. DECEASED
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    Yes, it looks like the archive spe_05.RAR contains a folder named "Cinavia"...

    ... BUT we@Videohelp still don't know the actual contents of that folder --- and specially, whether that folder contains any useful info about how to remove the Cinavia watermark.
    Last edited by El Heggunte; 23rd Dec 2014 at 22:01. Reason: clarity
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  20. Member
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    Cinavia is only an issue when watching an encode through a Blu-ray player.

    1) Plug your external device into your TV's USB port. This has always worked for me.

    2) If your computer is hooked through you TV like mine is, you can watch with - VLC or Media Player Classic Home Cinema But, in all honesty, I only use my computer when it's something I encoded (I encode all my stuff @ 24fps). Too many people these days encode @ 23.976 fps. Now this is fine if you're watching through a Blu-ray player or your TV. Both play everything @ 24fps to match the HZ level of your TV. However, computer players play @ the original frame rate. So when the frame rate doesn't match the HZ level, you get periodic choppy playback.
    Last edited by rdeffley; 11th Jan 2015 at 04:06.
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  21. Member
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    Do not remove watermark from a stream. Simply, remove the watermark(s) from the audio file by remodulating it with an inverse of the stegano (stinko) key. This also pulls out the 'digital' embedments. I believe the number of keys are constant, otherwise the players would need frequent updates which doesn't appear to be happening.
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  22. Member
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    Originally Posted by JohnRambo View Post
    Do not remove watermark from a stream. Simply, remove the watermark(s) from the audio file by remodulating it with an inverse of the stegano (stinko) key. This also pulls out the 'digital' embedments. I believe the number of keys are constant, otherwise the players would need frequent updates which doesn't appear to be happening.
    Great-why dont you share all of the keys and also some source code (C++ preferred) which will use said keys and do what you say leaving a cleaned audio file next to the source infected audio file which can then be remuxed back into the container for playback on any device.
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  23. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnRambo View Post
    Do not remove watermark from a stream. Simply, remove the watermark(s) from the audio file by remodulating it with an inverse of the stegano (stinko) key. This also pulls out the 'digital' embedments. I believe the number of keys are constant, otherwise the players would need frequent updates which doesn't appear to be happening.
    I have tons (literally) of "stinko" keys in my bathroom...which one will work best?
    'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie
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  24. Member
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    OK.

    Qz3FWD: Don't use C++. Sounds like a lot of work. I use available soft wares and custom built discrete board. Why don't you give me the C++ Libraries that emulate my discrete components and I'll see what I can do. Or you can do it. Need libraries to emulate chips such as op-amps, differential pll, frequency synthiesizer, monostable multivibrators, A/D converters, etc. Also, the libraries to access the pc sound board.

    How do I post / upload a sample video clip contained in a .MKV file?
    Will attachement to a message post handle a 280Mb file?

    It has two audio tracks, one with Stinkovia and the other wiped with Windex (no Stinkovia).
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