Cinavia removal technique?

[Guest34343]

Is there ever any prospect for your method to become available for use/testing, or do you have to wait until the "FBI investigation" is over? Going on about Rubiks cubes is pretty lame, IMHO.

[Cienoway]

Is there ever any prospect for your method to become available for use/testing, or do you have to wait until the "FBI investigation" is over? Going on about Rubiks cubes is pretty lame, IMHO.

No, since this is totally clean of any entanglement of trade secret issue, I feel comfortable selling my code to any one, as long as there is a reasonable offer. I am not going to wait out the FBI investigation. I am very eager to sell my intellectual property at the first opportunity available. So IM me if you are interested and I will have some one to hook up with you.

As far as testing, any one can give me a Cinavia sample and I will process it to give you back a Cinavia free file.

The Rubik Cube analogy is very relevant. If you don't see it now, eventually you will see the connection.

[Guest34343]

I read that as saying nobody has been interested to buy your vaporware.

You don't seem to understand that giving you a sample and getting back a result is not satisfactory. For example, how do we know you didn't just find an alternate clear source, or use DVDRanger, etc.? Anyway, the consensus so far is that the quality of your demos is inadequate, i.e., it's just as bad as the other solutions.

In the absence of any willing buyers of your vaporware, why don't you make a product and market it yourself?

[Noahtuck]

@ neuron2
HUH?!?!?
You mean you are not interested and have not already written him a check ?!?!?!?


LOL!!

[Guest34343]

I'm just curious as to his endgame for this scam. He wants big $$$ for his claimed solution but won't invest $20 for a bluray disk he can use to properly demonstrate things. That excuse comes after he earlier posted he was buying Cinavia-enabled players for his testing.

So no, I haven't sent him any money. Anyway, why would I do that when my own solution totally blows his away. The output of my method is indistinguishable from the original HD audio. It works by a method analogous to rolling snake eyes on a pair of dice. You may not fully understand it yet, but you will. It's so simple (just 10 lines of code) that I cannot believe no-one has figured it out yet. I saw someone peeking in my window last night; they were trying to eavesdrop on my computer screen to get the code. Don't worry, I will be careful.

[Steve(MS)]

I feel sorry for the buyer of his vaporware, it could go something like this.

But Cienoway, I am having trouble with getting your code to work properly.

(Cienoway's response) I am sorry to inform you but I can't help because I have the FBI guarding my every move.

Hey Cienoway. I bet you already thought of that huh?

Anyway your solution isn't that good given your lying self was supposed to be familiar with the cinavia code, worked for verance and all the other lies you have been telling.

I can tell you that if the FBI ever was on your case, you definitely would have disappeared from every forum you posted on.
And you never worked for verance given your audio isn't that good.

Buyer beware.

[Noahtuck]

Oy Vey
LOL!!

[Cienoway]

I can tell you that if the FBI ever was on your case, you definitely would have disappeared from every forum you posted on.
And you never worked for verance given your audio isn't that good.

Everything I said is true. You can directly call Verance at 001-858-202-2800 and ask whether they have reported a former employee to FBI, for developing an attack on Cinavia, they will not be able to give you a definite NO, as that will be lying. They will say "I don't know" or "no comment" or things like that nature. And of course, if they find any evidence that I have stolen any secret from Verance and used it to develop my attack method, they would have napped me away and I would not have been able to post so freely. As FBI executed the search warrant, they told me that there was no charge filed against me yet and they are not taking my civil liberty away.

It's not even appropriate for me to go every where to post while an FBI investigation is going on. Except that I am practically financially broken and without any attorney helping me. And it appears very clear to me that Verance itself know full well that my method has nothing to do with any trade secret. This is a malicious attempt to frame me. Do I just sit there wait quietly for them to make me vanish quietly into the night? Or must I exercise my first amendment right to the full extend possible and make sure people knows what's happening? You think this is a joke? But my very life, the very survival of me and my family rely on me speaking out, and rely on me speaking out. This is no joke matter. I am fully prepared to speak out even louder until I get my innocence back. I have the constitutional right of free speech, free research and self-defense.

Neuron2 suggested that I purchase a $20 BluRay disc, rip its audio content, remove Cinavia and posted for the world to share the copyrighted content. Alright that gives them a perfect excuse to jail me for 20 years for pirating a disc. Why would I do that? I do not need to distribute copyrighted material. I only need to demonstrate my method using clips.

Don't you guys understand? Verance now has a very big arse to cover up. They need a scapegoat! They spent 15 years and at least $80M of investor money developing an echo hiding audio watermarking scheme whose core is not much more than 50 some computer code a delayed-self-correlation function as fully described by patent documents. They managed to push this into a major industry standard and burned it into hundreds of millions of BluRay discs and player devices, and made the whole world believe that their scheme is secure and robust. And now it's defeated easily by a very small computer program which knows nothing of how the embedding was done? And on top of that, Dr. Edward Felten defeated their scheme on day one and told them that the scheme was never secure to be used as a copyright protection? What a big scandal! How are they going to tell their customers and investors? Think about it. They need a scapegoat to cover this up. I refuse to be a scapegoat! This is why I am speaking out loud here.

You guys won't believe me. You guys would rather believe the Verance fairy tale that Cinavia is un-crackable? Scientists have published all sorts of paper on how to attack audio watermarks and that audio watermarks are vulnerable to many informed and uninformed attacks. It's all public information for any one to look up and study. The FBI itself has possession of my computer code. They have scrutinize my code enough so they SHOULD know how it works.

Can't you guys just google using phrases like "attacks on audio watermarks"?

I think my sample gives decent audio quality. We can debate on that. There is plenty of room for improvement if need to. But the fact of the matter is there is no scam here. I have a legitimate watermark erasure method developed by myself which erases not only Cinavia, but other commercial watermarks like Digimarc audio watermark as well.

Sample: http://www.firedrive.com/file/1B293008C53FD6EE

My analogy of a Rubik Cube, in thread entry #75, is pretty adequate.

[El Heggunte]

^ JMHO --- it's pretty saddening that you are unable to find less risky ways of making some money.

[Guest34343]

^ JMHO --- it's pretty saddening that you are unable to find less risky ways of making some money.

On the other hand, it's pretty obvious why that is the case.

[jman98]

Everything I said is true. You can directly call Verance at 001-858-202-2800 and ask whether they have reported a former employee to FBI, for developing an attack on Cinavia, they will not be able to give you a definite NO, as that will be lying. They will say "I don't know" or "no comment" or things like that nature.

Why exactly CAN'T they give a "definite NO" as you put it? They are under no legal obligation to tell the truth on a phone call like you suggest. Suppose, for example, some stranger calls your house and says "Do you have a home security system? If not, we'd like to give you one to try risk free for 30 days." Maybe you don't want some stranger to know that you don't have one so you say "Yes, I already have one and I'm satisfied with it." You're not under oath. No law was broken. There are no laws that say that you must tell the truth in 100% of all situations or you will go to jail. There might be moral or religious reasons why individuals may not ever want to lie and the law does actually require you to tell the truth if you are in a court and giving testimony, but Verance has no legal obligation to tell the truth to some stranger who calls them.

The people who answer the phone may simply not know whether Verance has done such a thing and an "I don't know" answer may be completely truthful and not an attempt to hide something or deceive. Also, the people answering the phone may be trained to give that kind of answer to all questions that might involve some kind of legality. So calling proves nothing. And as others have pointed out, if you really were in trouble, it's doubtful that you'd be allowed to proclaim your innocence here and make all those "I'll sell my secrets to the highest bidder" claims. If you really knew a way to defeat Cinavia as you claim the full weight of Hollywood and the US government would be on you so fast that you'd already be locked up.

[Cienoway]

[QUOTE=jman98;2326565]

And as others have pointed out, if you really were in trouble, it's doubtful that you'd be allowed to proclaim your innocence here and make all those "I'll sell my secrets to the highest bidder" claims. If you really knew a way to defeat Cinavia as you claim the full weight of Hollywood and the US government would be on you so fast that you'd already be locked up.

What country America becomes if an innocent man can not even be allowed to proclaim his innocence and cannot speak out and defend himself? That will make American a Fascism country. Fortunately we have not fallen down to a Fascism country yet, we still have the constitutional freedom of speech and other civil liberties. It is worth sparing no effort to defend our civil rights to every extent possible.

The bottom line is I did not steal Verance secret. I did my own research, discovered the fatal vulnerability of Cinavia. So why can't I discuss my discovery freely? Why can't I legally sell my own inventions? Just because it inconvenience certain vested interest group does not mean that my own civil rights shall be deprived or suppressed. Neither the Hollywood nor the US government is above the laws, maybe in Hollywood movies they are, but in reality they are not. Did I disclose any trade secret of any one so far? No I have no possession of any one's trade secret. All I have is my own ingenuity. So I am free to discuss any way I want. Are they going to lock me up for discussing public knowledge and patent document?

[Guest34343]

So why can't I discuss my discovery freely?

No reason at all, but you have declined to do so. All you do is make facile analogies about Rubiks cubes and cite ancient papers not about Cinavia.

Why can't I legally sell my own inventions?

No reason at all, but you haven't succeeded in impressing anyone enough to give you any money.

Until you either do discuss your methods or you succeed in selling it to someone who can market it successfully you are just blowing hot air.

If I were you I would lay off the paranoia; it only further erodes your credibility.

[wulf109]

Other than Sony almost no one uses it. WHY? Why are all the other studios ignoring it?

[OllieTSB]

My nomination for Master Of The Understatement:

...it only further erodes your credibility.

Cieno is a good representation of that Less-Than-Zero existence.

[Cienoway]

So why can't I discuss my discovery freely?

No reason at all, but you have declined to do so. All you do is make facile analogies about Rubiks cubes and cite ancient papers not about Cinavia.

Why can't I legally sell my own inventions?

No reason at all, but you haven't succeeded in impressing anyone enough to give you any money.

Until you either do discuss your methods or you succeed in selling it to someone who can market it successfully you are just blowing hot air.

If I were you I would lay off the paranoia; it only further erodes your credibility.

So unless you get freebie it does not count? I have posted samples and explained basic principles how it works, using the analogy of a Rubik Cube. You are just too clueless to understand it. OK how about using another analogy. How about paper shredder? A paper shredder does not destroy the characters. Each printed character remains intact. But the secret information is destroyed. DVDRanger tried to use a rubber to erase each individual character one by one. I just used a paper shredder. My method is much more efficient and much more elegant.

I have posted samples files. Any one can submit samples to me, especially those NOT in DVDRanger's database, and I will show you clips with Cinavia removed.

[Guest34343]

I'll ignore your insult and just ask why no-one seems to be interested in purchasing your "solution". I asked you before about your claimed negotiations with Slysoft and others, but you did not reply. Can you update us on the status of your negotiations?

I also asked why you don't market it yourself, but again you did not reply.

OK how about using another analogy.

No, thank you. Anyway, a paper shredder shreds all the information. I suppose that's why your "solution" is destroying the audio too.

[MJPollard]

If I were you I would lay off the paranoia; it only further erodes your credibility.

At least DVDRanger isn't here, too; Myce is currently suffering from both of these guys engaging in a dick-measuring contest over there. As far as I can tell, Cienoway has no credibility to speak of, and DVDRanger is an out-and-out jackass with absolutely no public relations skills. Doesn't exactly give one high hopes for the future of Cinavia removal.

[Cienoway]

I'll ignore your insult and just ask why no-one seems to be interested in purchasing your "solution". I asked you before about your claimed negotiations with Slysoft and others, but you did not reply. Can you update us on the status of your negotiations? I also asked why you don't market it yourself, but again you did not reply.

OK how about using another analogy.

No, thank you. Anyway, a paper shredder shreds all the information. I suppose that's why your "solution" is destroying the audio too.

I don't comment on any deal I may or may not have with any one, before or after the fact. It's my own business. However you are very wrong saying no one is interested.

My samples have very decent audio quality. Actually 99% of it is almost identical to the original. You picked up 2 seconds clip out of 10 minutes where the drummer seems to a lit lousy and you call it destroy audio? LOL. I actually tried myself to find the 2 seconds you picked up, and could not find it myself. I am not saying you did not pick it out of my sample. You did pick it out of my sample. But it is so unnoticeable that I could not find it myself. The fact is average audience is pretty comfortable with that kind of audio quality. Want high quality audio? Then buy a BlueRay disc and then buy another one of the same title for backup. It's only $20, right?

Sample: http://www.firedrive.com/file/1B293008C53FD6EE

[jman98]

Other than Sony almost no one uses it. WHY? Why are all the other studios ignoring it?

1) It costs money to use it. It's reasonable to assume it's a PER DISC charge because if it was a "Pay once and use it all you want" kind of thing, it wouldn't make sense for it to be as little used as it is. Warner Brothers is the only other studio I remember who's even used it more than once and they don't use it much. Remember - Sony for years has been run by people from the very consumer hostile media conglomerate part of Sony (music and movies) rather than the consumer products people. Sony basically believes that every human being is a potential thief of their stuff. It's why they are crazy enough to pay what Cinavia must cost to use it on almost every movie they put out, even foreign films that have small potential US audiences. Even Disney, who to me is the 2nd most paranoid Hollywood studio about stopping "illegal copies" after Sony, put it on exactly ONE title. Geez, if Disney won't pay to use it, it must be expensive. The only Disney title that has it? Frankenweenie. I'm guessing that Tim Burton made them use it or they feared copying so badly that they decided to try it and see if it really made any sales difference.
2) To be honest with you, it doesn't really work. Older players that don't recognize it will play copies that have it all day. Media players that don't recognize it will play videos all day that have it. It's trivial to rip a BD infected with it to an MKV file, make no changes at all, and then play the video without a hitch in various media players.

[gonca]

He's worried about jail time, but isn't breach of a NDA agreement a civil issue, i.e. lawsuit.

[Guest34343]

He's worried about jail time, but isn't breach of a NDA agreement a civil issue, i.e. lawsuit.

Of course. He's also worried about being jailed for 20 years for a copyright violation, which is absurd, but no less absurd than his other ravings. Remember, he said his "very life" is at stake.

[Guest34343]

Want high quality audio? Then buy a BlueRay disc and then buy another one of the same title for backup. It's only $20, right?

That is a confession that his "solution" cannot successfully remove the watermark from Cinavia audio.

His processed sample is only 10 minutes so there is no way to verify that Cinavia was removed. And the unprocessed source is not provided so there is no way to verify that it contains Cinavia at all.

[gonca]

Yeah, you never know. They might hire a hitman over a NDA breach. Let's face it, they got search warrants without evidence.
By the way, I have a cinavia defeating solution for $20.
Just remove the audio, demux, out of the movie and use the subtitles instead.

[smrpix]

By the way, I have a cinavia defeating solution for $20.
Just remove the audio, demux, out of the movie and use the subtitles instead.

I can confirm this, very clean sound. No distortion at all.

[gonca]

By the way, I have a cinavia defeating solution for $20.
Just remove the audio, demux, out of the movie and use the subtitles instead.

I can confirm this, very clean sound. No distortion at all.

As you are my first paying customer I will give you my solution for free.

[Guest34343]

As you are my first paying customer I will give you my solution for free.

Whoa, wait a minute. I will pay you to take my solution.

[Cienoway]

Want high quality audio? Then buy a BlueRay disc and then buy another one of the same title for backup. It's only $20, right?

That is a confession that his "solution" cannot successfully remove the watermark from Cinavia audio.

His processed sample is only 10 minutes so there is no way to verify that Cinavia was removed. And the unprocessed source is not provided so there is no way to verify that it contains Cinavia at all.

Deny is futile. I have both the original and the processed sample. The 10 minutes audio can be played in loop mode for as long as you want. If there is Cinavia it will be triggered at 20 minutes.

losers_orig.mp3 http://www.firedrive.com/file/62AC44298C5BF228
losers_0607a.mp3 http://www.firedrive.com/file/1B293008C53FD6EE

And again I ask any one in doubt to send in their own Cinavia sample and I will process it to show Cinavia removed.

[smrpix]

By the way, I have a cinavia defeating solution for $20.
Just remove the audio, demux, out of the movie and use the subtitles instead.

I can confirm this, very clean sound. No distortion at all.

As you are my first paying customer I will give you my solution for free.

And I will give you full credit in every re-branded copy I sell.

[jagabo]

You picked up 2 seconds clip out of 10 minutes where the drummer seems to a lit lousy and you call it destroy audio?

I used that particular segment because the problem is easily seen in the waveform and heard in the audio. But the problem occurs throughout and is often audible.

I actually tried myself to find the 2 seconds you picked up, and could not find it myself.

I had originally intended to include the time stamps in the image but cropped them out by accident. It runs from about 2:31.80 to 2:35.20. Remember, I bandpass filtered and amplified the section to highlight the drum beats in the image.