Major disaster, how do I get home made video off of mini DVD?

[DB83]

You have the time frame wrong. It is 12:45 pm ie after mid-day. However I did post my analysis of the iso etc at 00:45 (after midnight)

No need to upload the 823 mpg as that will now be identical to the one I already have. I hope you can now see that, without re-encoding, you could not achieve 1.25 gig. Strange though that in your first reply you did say that you used vob2mpg which, of course, threw all the analysis off course.

I still do not know why your PC performs like this as it is somewhat more powerful than mine. You should look at what background programs are running and close down all non-essential ones. Certainly, do not attempt to browse the internet when editing.

I have not played the gig through - the music is not to my taste - but there did not seem to be the issues you are experiencing. What I would also suggest is that you try some other softwares. Both Corel and Sony Vegas have free trial versions. You can also try free sofware such as AVStoDVD which can give you a basic menu. Since your source is dvd compliant the main video will not be re-encoded unless you cut it.

[usalabs]

Dag nabbit, I hate timezones, lol

I don't use the internet when I'm editing, I completely disable the NIC, then I set Avast disabled until reboot.

As far as I see in the windows processes, only the essential ones used by windows are active and enabled, with exception to dropbox and Avast

The other option I can think of is that the HD data transfer rate isn't fast enough, but mind you, this HP even though brand new, I don't think it's specs were designed for heavy video editing, come to think of it, PC's nowadays are built according to it's usage, ie, better graphics for intense GFX applications, super high speed and very high end extreme GFX for gaming, so maybe my system isn't cut out for intensive video editing, even though it has the speed, capacity and GFX capabilities, maybe there's just something that other systems have that mine don't.

Audio editing is another story, I've recorded and cut a CD for the band using DAW software with ease, but video editing? I know I mentioned I successfully edited 2 previous videos, but thinking back, that was when I recorded at DVD HQ and used 2 DVD's, I had to signal the band when I was ready to change DVD and they had to wait until I changed the DVD to continue, but they don't want to keep doing that, so I reduced the camcorders recording quality to DVD LP, which could also be the problem too, DVD HQ was no problem editing, but DVD LP is giving me hell.

[DB83]

Actually the reverse should be true. DVD HQ will have the higher bitrate so has to pass much more data through the system.

Do you have more than one HDD in this PC ?. It always helps to edit on a second HDD so that the OS will not interfere. If you only have one HDD then partition that one and edit on the non OS partition.

I do not use Win7 but in my small experience of it it does make use of a lot of un-neccessary background processes. You can look at your task manager to see of anything untooward is running especially at the time your PC coughs

Of course, most of us build our own systems so we do not have to rely on whatever standard parts the manufacturer cares to throw in.

Recording in LP mode is a compromise and you should notice that your picture quality is so much poorer. What would happen if the band was to play for more than one hour ?

[DB83]

One more thought about the bitrate. DVD LQ issue. Your camera is recording full frame 720*480 in LQ mode. With the low bit rate, the system indeed must work harder to fill the frame. The standard way to do low bit rate is to employ half-D1 or 360*480. Maybe your camera does not have this setting.

Might I now suggest that you do re-encode your mpg. Keep the bit-rate to what is is (2700 kbps IIRC) but change the frame size to 360*480 16:9). That might improve the situation.

[qpskfec]

I doubt hw is the issue. I have a 12 year old XP machine with a single core Athlon, 512 RAM, and I can load 4 GB+ files into VideoRedo no problem and author in DVD Movie Factory 2.

I suspect that whatever apps are transferring the files don't like DVD files made by DVD recorders/cameras. For example, DVDShrink refuses to open files from a DVD recorder unless I use fixvts first.

I have seen file size/running time mismatches many times with files from DVD recorder discs. VideoRedo quick stream fix has always fixed them. The fact that kerry56 did exactly this and produced a good mpeg file supports this. This is the first thing I would try.

[Cornucopia]

Usalabs, that whole business about you explaining dvds to us is laughable, but I don't want it to be left unanswered or newbies will quote it down the road...

In a plain DVD-Video, the AUDIO_TS folder is empty, but in DVD-AUDIO or Hybrid discs it is not.

There is also NOT as simple a relationship between VOBs and chapters as you would like to believe - maybe in the authoring app you regularly use, and maybe with single title projects of a certain length, but I can tell you from long professional authoring experience that those are 2 separate constructs that only occasionaly coincide. There is a very limited pool of possible VOBs, but the logical structure of chapters and titles can be much more numerous and varied and still fit when mapped to those VOBs.

Also, one should NEVER, NEVER assume that just because a disc is brand new out of a pack that there isn't the possibility of (sometimes serious) errors already on disc. Happens to even the best brands.

Scott

[usalabs]

Do you have more than one HDD in this PC ?. It always helps to edit on a second HDD so that the OS will not interfere. If you only have one HDD then partition that one and edit on the non OS partition.

I have an external USB HDD I use for backups, but as this is a new PC and still under warranty, and even though I'm well capable of adding extra hardware, I would rather not add an internal drive just in case something might go wrong in the future and I have to send it back for repair, and the company say, "sorry you added an item that was not present at the time it was purchased and therefore invalidate the warranty"

I do not use Win7 but in my small experience of it it does make use of a lot of un-neccessary background processes. You can look at your task manager to see of anything untooward is running especially at the time your PC coughs

I've looked at every aspect of win7's processes and services, and 'kill processed' as much as the system will allow, and still the HD is being accessed all the time, from what?, only MS would know that, they designed Windows lol.

Of course, most of us build our own systems so we do not have to rely on whatever standard parts the manufacturer cares to throw in.

Yes it's true that custom built machines are a lot more flexible, I built my own home server, but as I'm near to retirement, and a lot of money has been put into renovating and the upkeep of my own house, money has been tight, and until I get next years taxes, I can't afford to build my own system just yet.

Recording in LP mode is a compromise and you should notice that your picture quality is so much poorer. What would happen if the band was to play for more than one hour ?

I realize the lower bitrate produces a lower quality, but what can be done except paying $2,000+ for a studio quality, shoulder mounted cam with hip hugging battery pack and an HDD that can record at HQ for hours.

The cam only has 3 settings for quality, HQ, LP, and SP, and screen ratios of 4:3 and 16:9, those are the only settings I can change that affect quality.

[DB83]

Only you can tell me what those settings give in terms of recording time. The disk spec says '30 mins' which I would guess equates to SP since a standard size DVD gives you two hours at 'SP' mode. But that wording can vary and it really is for people who just 'click' and have no idea about bitrate etc..

Since tonight is rather quiet, and the effect of the dinner wine has now worn off, I threw your mpg in to one of the dvd authoring programs I have namely Ulead DVD Movie Factory 6. Again this is quite an old program but should work, if you can find a copy, under Win7. I played part of the gig with the sound off (would need more wine to play with the sound on ) but specifically looked at the period between 28 mins and 35 minutes where you are having these issues. I guess you will not be surprised to read that the mpg played flawlessly.

As I said earlier, you need to eliminate all possiblities and try other softwares. But I still believe that something in your system is pulling the whole thing down.

PS. What goes down in the room behind ?. I saw another partially clad lady appear from there.

[usalabs]

That room is the VIP room, I have no idea what goes on in there, but unless you have a pass nobody is allowed there, one can only imagine the happenings in there, maybe lap dancing, pole dancing, or something else.

I'll see if I can find a win7 version of Ulead video editing software and try them, but should VideRedo remove frames?

These are the steps I took to 'rip' the video from the mini DVD leading to the screen shot of VideRedo's frame removal.

1.....Using DVDDecrypter to create full DVD folders on HDD
2.....Using VOB2MPG in IFO mode to create the mpg from the HDD VOB
3.....Using VideRedo to 'Quick Fix' the mpg

The result is this screenshot.

Could the frame removal result in audio/video de-sync?

[DB83]

Well I did not do step 3 but the report suggests that frames needed to be removed. What isnot clear from that is where the frames were removed. One frame every minute or so would not make any difference. 22 frames all at once would.

The current versions of Corel (they bought out Ulead some years back) are available for 'try-before-you-buy'. They will work for Win7.

[usalabs]

Looking through my bunch of bought CD's, I found Ulead VideoStudio 10, but it don't seem to work well on 64 bit win7, there is no sound with any video and every so often it crashes with permission problems, so, looking again I found Corel Video Studio Pro X5 Ultimate, I'll try that now.

ADDENDUM
Damn it, it won't install, the installer just closes with no errors at all, I guess I'm shit outta luck, off to plan B, take the DVD to a professional studio.

[DB83]

A new day.

As I turned my PC off last night some thoughts came to me. Firstly a joke to, hopefully, start your post-work day in a good mood. Your comment about the VIP room and passes reminds me of some classic lines from the very British comedy 'Carry On Camping'. The cast arrive at the camp-site which they are led to believe is a nudist resort. They read the sign on the gate "All asses must be shown". "Ah, we are at the right place". When they inquire where the owner is, the reply comes "He has gone for a P". Brilliant !!

Now a little more on those 22 frames. The muxing has sensed that video and audio is not synced so it appears to have added these. We know they are added when you come the new running time ie 40.1 to the old 39:59 (both numbers rounded up). But you need to play both to see which is better.

Software: Ulead Video Studio 10, which I also have, was never supported beyond XP although reading the Corel forum some guys on there have managed to get it to work on later OS's. Cannot explain why an X5 does not install but it may be neccessary to do a clean up of all Corel temp files, registry entries etc. IIRC there are topics on here about this. You could also try the Corel forum since the guys on there do know these programs very well. But I would have suggested, rather than try to install from a CD, download the latest trial versions.

[usalabs]

I am very familiar with Carry On films, being that I was born and raised in the UK, and moved here in 2001 on a business venture and finally got married, but that is a different story,,,, anyway, I did the extreme unthinkable, after backing up crucial files to my USB HDD, I restored the system to factory defaults using the recovery partition, then installed my bought version of Corel VideoStudio Pro X5 and it installed perfectly, after entered my activation key I got from Corel, I imported the mpg file and there was no hiccups, burps, farts, or even coughs, but when I tried it in PowerDirector, it still coughs and splutters after 32 minutes, well (0:32:16.134) to be precise, (I watched the little timeline mouseover), but when using Corel I can edit, add title, transitions, credits, etc etc, but,,, and yes there is always a but, the resulting final video after a render, plays great but when it hits a title there's a sudden jolt in video, but no de-sync, then continues in-sync until another title is hit, then another jolt in video, and so on.

ADDENDUM
As nobody can think of everything, I've just remembered I didn't back up the master files used in my DAW software and have now lost them, they were used for the band's music CD's

[DB83]

Well since you are familiar with the series you can 'Carry on Regardless'

Good to read that progress is being made and it now does appear that the villian is PowerDirector.

No backup of the 'master files' then ?

As for the 'but' how are you rendering ? I do not think you should attempt to exceed the bitrate on the original video. But, of course, Corel itself may not like the reduced bitrate and renders to something more appropiate - you can quick check that by comparing file sizes etc. Indeed when I imported your video in to DVD Movie Factory the program reported that it would use 2.2 gig of dvd space. I did not attempt an actual render. Nothing is straight forward in the realm of digital video.

[usalabs]

The file size of the render is 2.45GB, when I set rendering I used all aspects to be the same as the source.

In Corel, the 'Share' tab is clicked, and the 'Create File' is selected, then an option to create various type of file qualities are presented, such as DVD (mpg), Windows media (wmv), ipad, Quicktime (mov), or even upload to youtube, among many others, I selected DVD (mpg) quality, to create an mpg,,, also there is an option in the 'Share Tab' to create DVD directly to the burner.

The rendering took close to 1/2 hour to complete.

At least I backed up my Videos folder which contains the masters for the current and last 2 band gig videos, but forget to backup the Adobe Audition data files which are not in My Documents folder, but in their own folders outside my user folder,,, grrrrr.

[DB83]

Ah. You effectively re-installed the OS rather than a recovery. Not sure you could have done that without a CD.

I might have to take a closer look at X5 if I can find one. X6 is the current version. There should be a 'smart render' option somewhere. But it appears that the full video has been rendered and at a higher bitrate than the original whereas a smart render would just render those parts than have been changed ie the transitions and titles. Ulead, in the versions that I am familiar had a 'create option' from 'Share' where you selected either 'Same as Project Settings' or 'Same as First Video Clip'. The latter would keep the lower bitrate.

[usalabs]

Ah. You effectively re-installed the OS rather than a recovery. Not sure you could have done that without a CD.

Most HP's have a recovery partition that is none accessible the OS, but just after power on, pressing 'esc' several times will bring up a menu to choose Setup(F2), System Recovery(F11), and some others, but selecting 'System Recovery' kicks in the factory setup and reformats the HDD and re-installs windows without the need of a CD, but I did create a system recover DVD which can only be created once, so that if anything happens to the HDD I can use the DVD to re-install windows on the new HDD.

I might have to take a closer look at X5 if I can find one. X6 is the current version. There should be a 'smart render' option somewhere. But it appears that the full video has been rendered and at a higher bitrate than the original whereas a smart render would just render those parts than have been changed ie the transitions and titles. Ulead, in the versions that I am familiar had a 'create option' from 'Share' where you selected either 'Same as Project Settings' or 'Same as First Video Clip'. The latter would keep the lower bitrate.

Yes there is a smart render which is ticked by default, also there is an option for 'Perform non-square pixel rendering' which also ticked by default.

I just finished another render but this time using 'Create Video File -> same as project settings' template with these settings:-

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

The file size is the same if rendering using template 'DVD (16:9) or same as project settings.

The other templates are:-

Same as project settings
Same as First Video Clip
HDV
DVD Video (4:3) or (16:9)
DVD MPEG2 (720x480)
DVD slideshow (4:3) or (16:9)
DVD Video with surround sound 5.1
Blu-Ray
AVCHD
WMV
MPEG-4
3D
and Custom

Hmmm, imagine rendering the entire video in 3D, lol

I just checked the project properties and it shows the entire video length as 0:40:25:13, and project options show as a 70% compression rate.

Now, this is weird, the actual imported video properties show:-

File:-
Format - NTSC DVD
Size - 883,432KB
Duration - 2400.634 seconds

Video:
Type - MPEG-2 Video, Upper Field First
Tot Frames - 79,947 frame(s)
Attributes - 24 bits, 720x480, 16:9
Frame Rate - 29.970 frames/sec
Data Rate - Variable bit rate (max 9100kbps)

The rest is for the audio

The weird part is, the data rate shows max 9100kbps, and yet the rendering max is 8000kbps

If I try to use custom settings and set the max data rate to 9100kbps, it says the range has to end at 8234kbps

[DB83]

If you selected 'Same as First Video Clip' your re-encode (if indeed it did do the whole thing) would be much closer to the original.

You will be familiar with that old saying 'You can not get blood out of a stone'. To put that in present context your original video has a bit rate of 2700 kbps. Now that may well be too low when you come to play the dvd on large screens. You will not improve the quality by throwing more bit rate at the video but it may display better.

But you have come a long way. Think of all the $ you are now saving (sure the wife will have ways to spend them )

[usalabs]

It didn't make much of a size difference, from 2.45GB to 2.39GB

[DB83]

Something odd a-foot methinks.

Bottom line is if you are now happy then we should put this puppy to bed else I can look further in to it.

[qpskfec]

VideoRedo will output DVD compliant files which can be loaded into an authoring program. No re-encoding is needed. An 800MB mpeg2 file will produce a finished DVD about the same size, with a little added for menus, ifos/bups, etc.

If the file plays fine after Videoredo fixed the 22 errors, then author the DVD.

In DVD authoring apps I have used, DVD Movie Factory/DVDFlick, you must select the option to "not re-encode complaint files" or the program will re-encode. This is why the rendered file size has grown to over 2GB, you are re-encoding to a higher bitrate This is a wasted step.

[El Heggunte]

Hopefully very-soon the OP will edit the title of this topic, replacing the annoying "Major disaster" with an elegant "[SOLVED]".

/ end-of-rant / end-of-Off-Topic

[turk690]

It turns out it's not the DVD, or the video files or the software, it's the hardware, my PC sucks shit, it's not designed for heavy video manipulation, it all boils down to data stream interruption....

If that is your PC spec, IMHO that is OK with what you want to do. But if there is only have one hard drive, that is likely causing most of the "data stream interruption" problems. Elsewhere on other threads in this forum, I have emphasized over and over again the essential, mandatory, required, basic requirement of ANY PC that will be used for manipulating video: there should be at least two separate hard drives, one is the system and program drive, the other the capture, temporary, rendered and to-be-rendered files drive, both each connected to their respective single controllers (such as SATA). USB-connected drives do not count.

[theewizard]

i have to wonder
changing the dv recording mode to LP, meant changing the bit rate (which should speed things up)
but i wonder what else changed, frame size ?, frame rate ? key frames, indexing, file format ?

something seems to have gone really off kilter, to create such editing problems, the file / frames ? seem to be decoding very slowly, in the editing program

[usalabs]

I can't mark this thread as solved yet, because it's still not quite there yet, pushing PowerDirector aside, I still havene't found a decent video editing program that allows on-the-fly fading (fading by just sliding a marker on the video within a timeline), title editing that also allows fading from the timeline, with adjustable transparency, etc etc.

I have tried Corel VideoStudio Pro X5, Adobe Premiere Pro, Cyberlink PowerDirector, Magix Movie Edit Pro, and Sony Vegas Pro 12 64bit, and neither of them meet my requirements, and they all still have that hiccup (with exception to Corel) when editing beyond 32 minutes, but Corel VideoStudio Pro X5 doesn't have timeline fade adjustments.

[DB83]

Did PowerDirector do that ?

Most NLEs work in the same way and to do what you want you add a transition filter to the part of the video you want to revise. The controls are always on the filter.

[usalabs]

I just tried Ulead DVD MovieFactory 6 Plus, even that doesn't allow manual fade editing or even title fade in/out, the audio fade can not be manually adjusted, and also, the beginning title has to overlay the video with the title being semi-transparent, and the fade in has to be equal in duration for all 3 items, audio, video, and title, with the title fading out a little longer, this I can't find in any of the video editing software I have.

Oh, and DVD MovieFactory stutters when editing past 32 minutes, with video/audio de-sync.

[DB83]

Maybe PowerDirector is a rebrand of DVD MovieFactory

DVDMovieFactory is a dvd authoring program that can do basic editing. I would hardly describe what you are attempting 'basic'

If you want a begining title to do want you want it has to be a separate piece of video or a still so you need to do that in a NLE or split your exiting video into smaller parts and intoduce them one by one into a timeline. A better way of achieving this is with an authoring program that supports playlists.

[usalabs]

Well, I found the only choice I had, and come to the conclusion, that even though my system is powerful enough for video editing, it's just not good enough compared to professional systems that are specifically built for that purpose, was to change OS to Linux.

After testing various trial versions of the most popular video editing software, my system still hiccups when editing beyond 32 minutes resulting in huge de-sync between video and audio, to which I came to the conclusion that the problem is a mixture of hardware, and software (mainly windows), hence I completely removed windows (which I'm now convinced totally sucks big time) and I'm now using Ubuntu 12.04, which (by the way) is a damn site faster and handles files far superior to windoze, yes I spelt it as windoze because it's slow, too clunky and uses up far to much resources, and is always accessing the HDD regardless if the PC is idle or not, resulting in intermittent data flow interruptions which can interfere with video editing,

After switching to Ubuntu, I downloaded and installed kdenlive and edited a test video of 645MB and the PC didn't hiccup, fart, or cough, and there was absolutely no video or audio de-sync what-so-ever, and, Linux only access the HDD as and when it's needed, plus, Linux uses about 1/16th of the amount of resources that windoze uses.

As far as I'm concerned now,,, this thread is solved.

ADDENDUM
After posting this thread, I see can't even change the heading to show [SOLVED],,, oh well.

[DB83]

Well it was said some time ago that the issue was the OS or rather your reluctance to accept that you really needed a second ie Non-OS accessed drive for editing etc.

You cited the reason that you would invoke your guarantee by installing another drive. Methinks you have done that by installing an OS not provided with the system.

But you did quote at least one software that did work for you or atleast it worked but not in the way you wanted. Does this linux based program really do all that you desire ?