Bluray Compliant Audio & Video Formats?

[VideoFanatic]

I was wondering what video and audio formats are Bluray compliant? Also what are the minimum & maximum bitrate for the audio formats?

I usually do TS h264 files with AC3. However today I noticed that using the .MP4 container instead while still having AC3 shaves 100MB off the file size. I dragged the MP4 file in MultiAVCHD and I didn't see any messages saying it wasn't Bluray compliant so is compliant?

Also I find that h264 TS files when played in my media player connected to my TV have a annoying problem. Fast forwarding and rewinding works fine but when I use the skip 30 seconds ahead button it can sometimes go back or forward a random amount of time! The same thing happens when I use the slider to quickly to to a time in the video. That problem doesn't happen with MP4 files.

[jman98]

https://www.videohelp.com/hd

multiAVCHD can re-encode anything that's not complaint but AC3 is perfectly valid for BluRay.

[VideoFanatic]

Thanks that's a useful page but it doesn't say what container formats are supported and with what audio formats. Is h264 MKV with AC3 supported for example? I heard that 5.1 AC3 is not supported with h264 in MP4 container is that correct?

I'm not looking to re-encode with MultiAVCHD, I just want to mux to Bluray with it using files that are already compliant.

[Baldrick]

Mkv and mp4 are no blu-ray formats. Even if several blu-ray players supports them.

[jman98]

Thanks that's a useful page but it doesn't say what container formats are supported and with what audio formats. Is h264 MKV with AC3 supported for example? I heard that 5.1 AC3 is not supported with h264 in MP4 container is that correct?

You are asking about apples, getting an apple answer, then saying you are asking about oranges, and then jumping back to apples.

You asked "...what video and audio formats are Bluray compliant?" I answered that with my link. Then you get yourself all hung up on containers, which are meaningless for Bluray as Bluray does not use those kinds of containers. Then you jump right back to the audio and video formats questions.

You also have reading comprehension issues. From the link I provided.

Video codecs MPEG2 - MP@HL and MP@ML
AVC/H264 - MPEG-4 AVC: HP@4.1/4.0 and MP@4.1/4.0/3.2/3.1/3.0
VC-1 - AP@L3 and AP@L2

Audio codecs Dolby Digital up to 5.1 channels (Max 640 Kbit/s)
Dolby Digital Plus up to 7.1 channels (Max 4.736Mbit/s)
Dolby Lossless up to 9 channels (Max 18.64Mbit/s)
DTS up to 5.1 channels (Max 1.524Mbit/s)
DTS HD up to 9 channels (Max 24.5Mbit/s)
Linear PCM up to 9 channels (Max 27.648Mbit/s)

H264 is listed under Video codes. "Dolby Digital" up to 5.1 channels (Max 640 Kbit/s) is AC3.

MP4 containers have NOTHING to do with Bluray. At one time, because the people who wrote the standard for MP4 containers are idiots, they didn't support AC3 in it. Eventually after all the Apple fanboys started crying about how their anime files couldn't be played because they had AC3 audio, the powers that be got a clue and changed the spec to allow AC3 audio. If you have software that doesn't allow AC3 audio plus H264 video in an MP4 container, it is broke.

[VideoFanatic]

Perhaps it is you who has "reading comprehension issues"? I read that page fine. It does not say what container formats are Bluray compliant. Also container formats are NOT meaningless as it would be pointless of me to create a h264 file in an MP4 container as that wouldn't be Bluray compliant! Also some audio formats only work in some containers which that page doesn't explain.

Applies and oranges? Well I think the container format is important for the reason stated above.

[smrpix]

Well I think the container format is important for the reason stated above.

Then you're mistaken for the reasons stated even further above.

edit:

Nah, that's too mean. You seem to be misunderstanding how Blu Ray works.

[jman98]

You have serious reading comprehension issues period.

I give up. I completely answered your questions and you insist that you got no answer.

[VideoFanatic]

I know you answered my question, where did I say I never got an answer? Baldrick told me that h264 in an MP4 container is not Bluray compliant then you said containers are irrelevant for Bluray which seems to contradict that. How about instead of insulting me that you explain that?

[_Al_]

Just because of this issue there are media players out there that allow to play mp4, mkv and other containers mostly with no problem. BluRay players might have intentionally or not broken firmware to play those containers. Their hardware chips in them are capable to play them. It is mostly all about firmware today that follow company policy to chase market to their corner, or some player makers on the other end save on license fees also not supporting Blu-Ray and DVD navigations, some audio formats.

[VideoFanatic]

Thanks Al. I know that but I'm trying to make a compliant Bluray disc.

[El Heggunte]

I usually do TS h264 files with AC3. However today I noticed that using the .MP4 container instead while still having AC3 shaves 100MB off the file size. I dragged the MP4 file in MultiAVCHD and I didn't see any messages saying it wasn't Bluray compliant so is compliant?

Also I find that h264 TS files when played in my media player connected to my TV have a annoying problem. Fast forwarding and rewinding works fine but when I use the skip 30 seconds ahead button it can sometimes go back or forward a random amount of time! The same thing happens when I use the slider to quickly to to a time in the video. That problem doesn't happen with MP4 files.

Every container adds some "overhead" to the combined file size of the contained streams. Both MP4 and MKV typically have tiny overheads. OTOH, the MPEG containers (mpg, vob, aob, evo, ts and m2ts) do not have a "global header", and this is one of the reasons why their respective overheads are typically HUGE the other reason being some error-correction data or/and padding null-bytes M2TS adds 4 timecode-bytes to the TS packets, in order to make random-access faster, however some players may ignore this feature outside of a proper Blu-Ray file structure

[_Al_]

Thanks Al. I know that but I'm trying to make a compliant Bluray disc.

Then you have to go by Blu-Ray specs to be 100% sure. You have to author BD by some BD authoring software. Even TsMuxer might give you what you need. But you better feed it with raw streams, perfectly compliant BD streams.
video - http://www.x264bluray.com/
audio - AC3 640kbps or less, 48000kHz a bit sample 16 or 24

[Cornucopia]

Maybe I can help...

Blu-ray, like DVD-Vide, DVD-Audio & SACD, is an AUTHORED format. One has to do much more than just stick a video codec stream & audio codec stream into a MM container format, name it something "appropriate" and call it a BD to be able to actually, consistently play it smoothly/correctly in all supported players. They are rigorous standards, designed so that, if adhered to, you have pleasing UNIVERSAL playback. That's the whole point of making them like that - if it were easier to successfully use just any 'ole format, hollywood would have done that years ago.

So what makes a BD?
Container: M2TS (ONLY)
Codecs: as already mentioned above
There are min (sometimes) & max (always) bitrates for each stream type, as well as max bitrates overall, and max #s of streams of certain types.
But there's also all kinds of little nitpicky things: GOP length & types, matrices, etc. as well as more esoteric but fundamental things such as sector/packet sizing & ordering (such as: you must put the CLIPINF & PLAYLIST backups after the END of the media, while the original CLIPINF & PLALISTs must be in front of the media). There are whole bunches of little "bookkeeping" and pointer items that must be included, and at certain intervals, for things such as navigation to work smoothly.

The point is: there is SO MUCH of those little things to deal with and get right, that it doesn't make sense to do them all manually yourself. That is the reason to use an AUTHORING SOFTWARE - it does all that stuff for you. It tells you what is compliant and what isn't (and either re-encodes the non-compliant stuff, or waits for you to change those assets out with already compliant material) and then does all the busywork to output a ready-to-burn folder/disc structure. Think of it as a master packer who knows how to most fully & efficiently utilize the available space in shipping containers. If you did it yourself, you'd have loose stuff tumbling around inside the container, you'd pack wastefully, and the stuff that needed unpacking first wouldn't be the first things available (you can see where my mind is right now ).

So, what you should do is use encoders that encode to BD-standards-compliant forms (using "BD-compliant" templates) for your assets, and an authoring app that accepts those forms.

Scott

[enim]

VideoFanatic are you back again? You know, I was looking for you since you left last party.
It is already been replied in much details by jman98 and Corncopia. Nothing much left over.

Not all m2ts confirms to BD compliant stream, only HiP ones. Sometimes re-encoding helps to make it fully BD compliant.

[Kerry56]

If you want to use the X264 encoder to make blu ray compliant H264 video, take a look at this page over at doom9: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154533

Lots of different programs can make use of X264, but you'll need something that allows fine control, so you might want to look into MeGUI, or learn to use command line.

[DB83]

Well if this thread follows others that the OP has started, he is NOT looking to create a compliant Blu-ray. His idea of 'compliant' is to stick a pile of videos on to a blank disk and have them play. A BD disk is chosen as it holds more than a dvd. I.E. a data disk.

Am I wrong or am I wrong ?

[sanlyn]

The O.P. is in a learning situation. Patience, m'boy. Patience.

Years back I made my first DVD with Pinnacle Studio 8, from 15 minutes of a TV movie captured with my trusty ATI card. Followed Pinnacle's dialog prompts to the letter. Authored and burned the DVD. Put the disk in my DVD player. The player thought about it for 20 seconds or so. Then spit the damn disk back out at me. Fortunately I found this forum 2 hours later. It's been uphill ever since.

[VideoFanatic]

Thanks Sanlyn. Some of the replies in this thread are just ignorant. People would rather insult me than explain the following: Baldrick told me that h264 in an MP4 container is not Bluray compliant then jman98 said containers are irrelevant for Bluray which seems to contradict that". Since nobody would actually answer that, I just tested the following in MultiAVCHD myself:

I have h264 videos in an MP4 container. I made a Bluray with multiAVCHD. In the authored files I checked the stream folder and it made M2TS h264 files just like it did when I authored my h264 TS files so as far as I can tell the answer I was looking for is that it doesn't matter what container your h264 is in. It can be TS, M2TS, MP4, MKV. Regardless of the container, it will be muxed to a Bluray (M2TS files in the stream folder).

[sanlyn]

Baldrick and jman98 are correct. I'm not familiar with other software for muxing to BluRay, but apparently yours worked. However, another player might not like "mkv" on a BD disc. Some players might accept it, some might not. The essential thing to note is that mkv is not BD standard. AVCHD and BluRay have similarities, but they're not the same thing. Your new disc might play on my Oppo, but it wouldn't play on my Denon. You can't fight city hall.

[VideoFanatic]

The h264 in MKV/MKV/ or MP4 container gets authored to Bluray Compliant h264 M2TS files by MultiAVCHD. So it would work on all players! But yes I know what you mean.

[DB83]

I am not insulting you. If you think that I am then you are far too sensitive.

The simple fact is that you have asked these questions more than once. Again, you say you are making a blu-ray but then change your story to say you are authoring a AVCHD. So you end up getting answers you did not want.

Even your topic asked for formats and then you talk about containers. Do you really wonder why people who want to help lose patience with you. ?

And more than once you talked about just data files - mixing PAL and NTSC sources.

[VideoFanatic]

Not once in this thread did I say I was authoring AVCHD or that I was mixing PAL and NTSC. I always said I was making a compliant Bluray. It's even in the thread title. I use multiAVCHD to make a compliant Bluray (not AVCHD). It's hardly going off topic asking about containers. This thread is about making a compliant Bluray so naturally I wanted to make sure there wasn't an issue with file containers.

[VideoFanatic]

Not all m2ts confirms to BD compliant stream, only HiP ones. Sometimes re-encoding helps to make it fully BD compliant.

What does HiP mean?

[DB83]

Well if you think that that software makes a blu-ray - or what most would consider is a blu-ray - then you are sady mis-guided.

To paraphrase it's description "take a pile of different videos and burn to a format that SHOULD play in a blu-ray player"

[enim]

O VideoFanatic,
Oh! Boy!

jman98 replied precisely in nut-shell

Video codecs MPEG2 - MP@HL and MP@ML
AVC/H264 - MPEG-4 AVC: HP@4.1/4.0 and MP@4.1/4.0/3.2/3.1/3.0
VC-1 - AP@L3 and AP@L2

Audio codecs Dolby Digital up to 5.1 channels (Max 640 Kbit/s)
Dolby Digital Plus up to 7.1 channels (Max 4.736Mbit/s)
Dolby Lossless up to 9 channels (Max 18.64Mbit/s)
DTS up to 5.1 channels (Max 1.524Mbit/s)
DTS HD up to 9 channels (Max 24.5Mbit/s)
Linear PCM up to 9 channels (Max 27.648Mbit/s)

H264 is listed under Video codes. "Dolby Digital" up to 5.1 channels (Max 640 Kbit/s) is AC3.

MP4 containers have NOTHING to do with Bluray.

Cornucopia and my self added missing information.

So what makes a BD?
Container: M2TS (ONLY)
Codecs: as already mentioned above
There are min (sometimes) & max (always) bitrates for each stream type, as well as max bitrates overall, and max #s of streams of certain types.
But there's also all kinds of little nitpicky things: GOP length & types, matrices, etc. as well as more esoteric but fundamental things such as sector/packet sizing & ordering (such as: you must put the CLIPINF & PLAYLIST backups after the END of the media, while the original CLIPINF & PLALISTs must be in front of the media). There are whole bunches of little "bookkeeping" and pointer items that must be included, and at certain intervals, for things such as navigation to work smoothly.

The point is: there is SO MUCH of those little things to deal with and get right, that it doesn't make sense to do them all manually yourself. That is the reason to use an AUTHORING (PROFESSIONAL) SOFTWARE.

Not all m2ts confirms to BD compliant stream, only HiP ones. Sometimes re-encoding helps to make it fully BD compliant.

Others have already provided you links to be followed:

take a look at this page over at doom9: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154533

Authoring a professional Blu-Ray Disk with x264

and finally...

What does HiP mean?

High Profile (HiP)

The primary profile for broadcast and disc storage applications, particularly for high-definition television applications (for example, this is the profile adopted by the Blu-ray Disc storage format and the DVB HDTV broadcast service.

It is a H264 / AVC HiP profile universally supported by all BluRay Disk players.


O VideoFanatic,
Oh! Boy!
I have been looking for you since last party, you already knew it!
Come here coz I owe you one.
Now going out, searching for you in Wild Woods with the doors left open, already.
You know better what to do.

[VideoFanatic]

Thanks. I'm familiar with the h264 profiles, I just never saw it mentioned as HiP before! I didn't look at the Doom link before as I already knew how to make a Bluray compliant h264 file. I read everyone's reply fine. The issue I was having was that Baldrick who's a moderator said that MP4 was not Bluray compliant (if I understood him correctly) which seemed to contradict what others were saying. Rather than directly address that, people just said bluntly that the container format doesn't matter. I'm more inclined to believe a moderator than someone I don't know until of course several of you said the same thing that the container format doesn't matter.

Well if you think that that software makes a blu-ray - or what most would consider is a blu-ray - then you are sady mis-guided.

You're just being silly now. I know full well that MultiAVCHD doesn't make a Bluray, it authors the files. You then use burning software to burn those files to a Bluray disc.

enim - how do you owe me one?!

[DB83]

If I am being silly, you are just being plain ignorant.

But I'll humour you and use your own language. MultiAVCHD doesn't author a blu-ray. It authors an AVCHD.

The replies you received since you badly worded your OP refered to a formal blu-ray NOT a AVCHD

[_Al_]

This thread is about making a compliant Bluray so naturally I wanted to make sure there wasn't an issue with file containers.

some more reading, more to confusion (or not):

While authoring BD you are not creating any container, just BD structure and whatever program authorizes BD, whatever you use (not many of those) will make that m2ts container and creates BDMV folder structure and of course puts that video into STREAM folder but you do not feed those BD authoring programs with m2ts necessarily.

Some examples to make it more clear for you how complex it is:

You feed BD compliant H.264 stream into Sony's DVD Architect and it will want to re-encode it anyway
https://sites.google.com/site/x264bluray/issues-with-certain-players
https://sites.google.com/site/x264bluray/home/1080i

There is multiAVCHD and TsMuxer that can create BDMV folder structure but not realy BD compliant video in it. You have to provide your 100% BD compliant files to them, for TsMuxer possibly in raw streams, not sure about MultiAVCHD, if it is realy BD compliant structure.

Sony's DVD Architect and Adobe Encore on the other hand will create BD compliant BDMV structure, doesn't matter what you feed it with. They will re-encode video or not. The trick is to find a way what to feed those programs so they will not re-encode if you insist to encode it yourself in another program. But most doesn't bother, just load video in it and those programs will re-encode it to standard. They might not like one parameter and they will re-encode. Just like that interlace H.264, where in that case it is MBAFF and I guess DVD Architect doesn't not like that. Even it is ok with Blu-Ray.
If you use Sony Vegas to encode compliant BD video, Sony's DVD Architect will not re-encode it, but I remember case where even that wasn't right!, I think latest version of DVD Architect fixed it ...

[VideoFanatic]

If I am being silly, you are just being plain ignorant.

But I'll humour you and use your own language. MultiAVCHD doesn't author a blu-ray. It authors an AVCHD.

The replies you received since you badly worded your OP refered to a formal blu-ray NOT a AVCHD

MultiAVCHD DOES author a compliant Bluray as it says here. Here's a screenshot from the program. My OP was quite clear - I wanted to make a compliant Bluray. I'm not the ignorant one who writes offensive comments. You can write them as politely as you want, they are still offensive.

Al - thanks for the info. I know how to make a compliant Bluray. I've been using MultiAVCHD for years and the Blurays I make work on all players. As long as the videos you encode are Bluray compliant then MultiAVCHD or TS Muxer will author a compliant Bluray structure which you can then use in burning software to create the disc.