Best HDMI Capture Device for Satellite TV, Games & PC?

[VideoFanatic]

Can anyone recommend an internal capture card that gives good quality like the Elgato Game Capture HD, and which doesn't drop frames and can capture HDMI 1080i TV? I would like to record in 14 Mbps variable bitrate.

[usually_quiet]

Can anyone recommend an internal capture card that gives good quality like the Elgato Game Capture HD, and which doesn't drop frames and can capture HDMI 1080i TV? I would like to record in 14 Mbps variable bitrate.

It is doubtful that such a thing exists. Game capture seems to be the primary use for recent HD capture devices, and almost all are USB 2.0. The Hauppauge Colossus is the closest thing I know of to what you want, since it can at least capture 1080i50 TV. The quality may not be as close as you want to the Elgato Game Capture HD, but at least it uses a different encoder chip than the HD-PVR 2 uses.

The original Hauppauge HD-PVR (no HDMI) uses an Ambarella A2 platform encoder chip
http://www.shspvr.com/reviews/hd_pvr/hd_pvr.html

The Hauppauge Colossus uses a ViXS XCode 3111 encoder chip.
http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/1026#1

The Hauppauge HD-PVR 2 uses a Magnum DXTPro Encoder/Transcoder chip
http://www.shspvr.com/reviews/hd_pvr_2/hd_pvr_2.html

The Elgato Game Capture HD uses a Fujitsu MB86H58A Transcoder
http://www.kernellabs.com/blog/?p=1959

If you want to try a card that uses software to encode, the Startech.com PEXHDCAP might be interesting as it can record many types of input. It has the same HDMI/DVI chip as the Elgato Game Capture HD (the MStar MST3367CMK). I'm not going to promise you that it will make perfect captures since I have never tried it, or seen examples showing TV captures. It works with AmaRecTV for lossless capturing, which you would encode later to a different format.

[VideoFanatic]

Thanks. I shall look into those. Doesn't have to specifically say it captures TV. As long as it can capture 1080i via HDMI or Component and doesn't drop frames then I'm interested in it - I assume if it can capture game footage via HDMI or Component then it can also capture TV via the same inputs. Not bothered if it's hardware or software encoder just as long as it doesn't drop frames. Is there anything else like that besides the ones you mentioned?

Really hard to know which is the best thing to buy as everything except the Elgato Game Capture HD seems to have 4 star reviews or less with lots of problems mentioned in the reviews.

I read some Amazon reviews that says the AVerMedia Game Recorder doesn't drop frames but is the picture quality any good like the Elgato is? Does the Live Gamer Portable do the same as the AVerMedia Game Recorder?

[usually_quiet]

Thanks. I shall look into those. Doesn't have to specifically say it captures TV. As long as it can capture 1080i via HDMI or Component and doesn't drop frames then I'm interested in it - I assume if it can capture game footage via HDMI or Component then it can also capture TV via the same inputs. Not bothered if it's hardware or software encoder just as long as it doesn't drop frames. Is there anything else like that besides the ones you mentioned?

Really hard to know which is the best thing to buy as everything except the Elgato Game Capture HD seems to have 4 star reviews or less with lots of problems mentioned in the reviews.

I read some Amazon reviews that says the AVerMedia Game Recorder doesn't drop frames but is the picture quality any good like the Elgato is? Does the Live Gamer Portable do the same as the AVerMedia Game Recorder?

I think I have read some reviews for the AVerMedia Game Recorder which indicate the picture quality is not very good. [Edit 1] As I recall Cauptain said the same thing in another thread, but I can't find his post now.[End Edit 1] [Edit 2] I kept trying to find out more information about this device. Based on an Amazon listing, it is another name used for the AVerMedia Live Gamer HD C985. If not then you should provide a model number for the device you want to know about. AVerMedia sometimes uses different names for its products in different markets [End Edit 2]

I suggest that you don't bother with the AVerMedia Live Gamer HD C985 (an internal device that hardware encodes). The AVerMedia Live Gamer HD can only capture 1080i50 as 1080p25, which means it either field decimates and de-interlaces what it keeps, or blends 2 interlaced fields into one frame. I doubt you would be happy with the picture quality either way.

You will probably have to buy any other Avermedia devices that you are interested in and try them to find out if they drop frames and whether you like the picture quality. You are much pickier about picture quality than the average person who buys these devices. Most are gamers who are just looking for an HD recording that they can upload to YouTube without going to much trouble.

A couple of things to remember about reviews: 1. Many are written by inexperienced users who have no idea what they are doing and have unrealistic expectations. 2. Buyers who receive a device that is in perfect working order are less likely to write a review of any kind than those those who receive a DOA/defective device, who are very likely to complain about it.

[VideoFanatic]

Just a tip for anyone reading this thread: The Elgato Game Capture seems to be the best capture device based on what everyone has said in this thread and elsewhere. I've also personally tried the HD PVR component model, PVR Rocket and PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus and both give a poor picture quality compared to the Elgato and they have other glitches.

The problems with the Elgato Game Capture HD is that it drops frames and the audio could be out of sync when you select the MP4 output (which you need to select in order to get a single file from the split files the Elgato records in). That means you will lose about 66 frames (25 frames is 1 second of PAL video) in a 2 hour recording for example - the frames could be all in one place or a frame here and there. However if you use the following Elgato software version then it will not drop ANY frames: 1.42.9 (524). I've recorded hundreds of videos and no frames were dropped and the audio is never out of sync in the MP4 output. HERE is the download. The version before and the Beta after that version has the problems, I can't speak for any other versions.

* The PVR2 proc amp settings I used to capture 1080i30 from the HDMI input:

Brightness: 15
Contrast: 58
Saturation: 60
Hue: 50

So will those settings just make the capture have exactly the same colours/brightness as the source before the HD PVR messed them up?

I remember using the original PVR component model and it had added brightness which I removed just be dragging the brightness down to zero. Is that what you've done above by setting the brightness to 15 and contrast to 58?

[jagabo]

* The PVR2 proc amp settings I used to capture 1080i30 from the HDMI input:

Brightness: 15
Contrast: 58
Saturation: 60
Hue: 50

So will those settings just make the capture have exactly the same colours/brightness as the source before the HD PVR messed them up?

Not exactly but very close. But they are rec.601 colors, not rec.709.

I remember using the original PVR component model and it had added brightness which I removed just be dragging the brightness down to zero. Is that what you've done above by setting the brightness to 15 and contrast to 58?

Off the top of my head I don't remember what the original values were or in what way they were off. Just that those were the values that came closest to the source. I was using test patterns (like the Belle Nuit charts) with known brightness and colors. Of course, different firmware or software versions may require different settings.

[jagabo]

if you use the following Elgato software version then it will not drop ANY frames: 1.42.9 (524). I've recorded hundreds of videos and no frames were dropped and the audio is never out of sync in the MP4 output. HERE is the download.

Thanks for that tip. I'll try it out.

[SHS]

Just a tip for anyone reading this thread: The Elgato Game Capture seems to be the best capture device based on what everyone has said in this thread and elsewhere. I've also personally tried the HD PVR component model, PVR Rocket and PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus and both give a poor picture quality compared to the Elgato and they have other glitches.

Need to say that not true compared of the two must be done at same audio/video bitrate there no point try say the Elgato better because your recording awful high rate bitrate of let say 30Mbit/s or 60Mbit/s
All review I saw all say the same thing HD-PVR 2 has a better picture quality and sharper with a better color contrast when compared to Elgato Game Capture HD.
Something else you need keep in mind is upload no to Youtube are automatic down grade to max of 6Mbit/s at 1920x1080p/30fps
Something else you need keep in mind is that with Hauppauge device have far better community support there are like about 7+ difference application Mac/Windows with more coming hope lee soon Linux which in self far more value and use then Elgato Product.

The problems with the Elgato Game Capture HD is that it drops frames and the audio could be out of sync when you select the MP4 output (which you need to select in order to get a single file from the split files the Elgato records in).

There not called split files it called span files which is very common problem even back old day when even hauppauge did that to and only one video editor could even deal them span files.

[Brad]

compared of the two must be done at same audio/video bitrate there no point try say the Elgato better because your recording awful high rate bitrate of let say 30Mbit/s or 60Mbit/s

Oh, so I can't say that my lossless VHS captures look better than if I recorded them in 8-hour mode to DVD.

However if you use the following Elgato software version then it will not drop ANY frames: 1.42.9 (524). I've recorded hundreds of videos and no frames were dropped and the audio is never out of sync in the MP4 output. HERE is the download. The version before and the Beta after that version has the problems, I can't speak for any other versions.

I've attached the file to this post in case the link ever dies.

[VideoFanatic]

Just a tip for anyone reading this thread: The Elgato Game Capture seems to be the best capture device based on what everyone has said in this thread and elsewhere. I've also personally tried the HD PVR component model, PVR Rocket and PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus and both give a poor picture quality compared to the Elgato and they have other glitches.

Need to say that not true compared of the two must be done at same audio/video bitrate there no point try say the Elgato better because your recording awful high rate bitrate of let say 30Mbit/s or 60Mbit/s

All review I saw all say the same thing HD-PVR 2 has a better picture quality and sharper with a better color contrast when compared to Elgato Game Capture HD.

Something else you need keep in mind is upload no to Youtube are automatic down grade to max of 6Mbit/s at 1920x1080p/30fps
Something else you need keep in mind is that with Hauppauge device have far better community support there are like about 7+ difference application Mac/Windows with more coming hope lee soon Linux which in self far more value and use then Elgato Product.

The problems with the Elgato Game Capture HD is that it drops frames and the audio could be out of sync when you select the MP4 output (which you need to select in order to get a single file from the split files the Elgato records in).

There not called split files it called span files which is very common problem even back old day when even hauppauge did that to and only one video editor could even deal them span files.

SHS it seems you're a HD PVR fanboy. So you've read some reviews but you've not tested both devices yourself? Well we have and this is a video enthusiast forum, most of the replies I've seen on this forum come from experienced people, dare I say video experts who have indeed run like-for-like tests with identical bitrates on both the Elgato and PVR as I have done myself if you bothered to read the previous posts. Reviews on Amazon and such are mostly from inexperienced people who don't know what they're talking about or how to configure the devices properly - most of the 1 star reviews are from people who got faulty units or who're trying to record via encrypted HDMI which won't work. Despite that, the Elgato has more positive reviews than the PVR and most people would agree that the Elgato gives a better picture than the PVR - especially professional reviewers.

You mention the PVR has a sharper picture and better color contrast. Did you read the last few posts? The PVR does not output the same colours as what is input unless you mess with the colour settings which you shouldn't need to do - the Elgato doesn't mess with the colours and just outputs what it input. I doubt the PVR has a sharper picture as I recorded a HD football match in 8Mbps on both devices and the PVR was blurry while the Elgato was not. The PVR doesn't give an acceptable picture in anything but the max bitrate it can record in.

So you say that Hauppage give better support than Elgato? If you say so, I have no knowledge of that. If the complexities of setting the resolution, bitrate and hitting the record button are so great that you need superior support options then have at it. I'm certainly not going to use an inferior product just because it has better support! But now we're getting to the bottom of things, you've only used the PVR because it supports Linux?

Are you trying to say that recording in the same bitrate on both devices is pointless because YouTube downgrades everything to the same 6 Mbps? Sorry it's not pointless as recording in 8 Mbps for example, the PVR will pixellate the background walls on a video for example while the Elgato will not (as well as the PVR messes with the colours of the input signal). That pixellation will still be there in the PVR YouTube video but it won't be there in the Elgato YouTube video.

The Elgato records about 25 mins of video in a TS file then continues recording in another TS file and so on. Thanks for the revelation that that's called "span files", I'm sure people didn't know what I was talking about when I said the Elgato splits files...

[jagabo]

SHS it seems you're a HD PVR fanboy.

He's run this site for many years: http://www.shspvr.com/

[VideoFanatic]

I was replying to what he said about the HD-PVR 2.

[fritzi93]

Dunno how the El Gato and Hauppauge HD-PVR2 stack up, not having them to compare.

I do have high regard for Hauppauge support. My original HD-PVR died a month or so out of warranty (it wouldn't power up, and the power supply wasn't the culprit). So I emailed Hauppauge, not to give them grief, but just to ask if it was worth trying to fix it, and if so, what would they suggest. To my surprise, they replied: we'd like to know what failed as well, so send it to us and we'll ship you a new one. And they were as good as their word.

I still have the replacement HD-PVR and use it to capture from my Roku from time to time. (Roku -> HDMI splitter/stripper -> ViewHD HDMI to component converter -> HD-PVR). We dropped cable TV some time ago.

Please forgive the digression.

[usually_quiet]

SHS it seems you're a HD PVR fanboy.

I was replying to what he said about the HD-PVR 2.

In SHS's view a Hauppauge product is always the best one for everyone to buy, regardless of the circumstances or personal preferences, and he has a long-standing special relationship with the company, so yes it is fair to call him a fanboy

I will say this, if someone is interested in using PVR software to record TV, the devices in the HD-PVR line (with the possible exception of the Rocket) are supported by a few third-party Windows-based PVR programs, which is not true for any other tunerless capture devices as far as I know. That is one reason why I bought a Colossus and didn't consider an Elgato Game Capture HD. The only PVR software an Elgato Game Capture HD works with is EyeTV on a Mac. ...but since you can be around to control the recording process yourself, the lack of PVR software for Elgato's Game Capture HD is not a problem.

The other reason I bought a Colossus was its ability to capture an AC3 audio stream, although capturing audio in an AC3 stream hasn't worked out as well as I had hoped. At times audio frames are missing in my recordings, sometimes more than a few. I suspect the missing frames are due to transmission losses or other problems with the cable company's signal, rather than the Colossus. It isn't an issue when watching recordings, but at times it makes editng them problematic, even using VideoReDo. I may have to change over to recording two-channel AAC audio. The available bit rate and video quality is mostly OK for my purposes, but the picture is a little washed out/lacking contrast. I will have to see what NextPVR will allow me to do about that. It has a configuration file for HD-PVR devices that allows control over some settings, such as bitrate.

(Since I mentioned the Colossus in an earlier post, I thought I should let you know what I think of it, now that I have one.)

[Edit] Oh, just in case you don't already know, Elgato has a new HDMI-only capture device, the Elgato Game Capture HD60. It captures 1080p at up to 60fps.

[SHS]

I was replying to what he said about the HD-PVR 2.

Yes I have personal test just about every device PVR/DVR/HD Recorder out there and ask me which was my favorite capture card usually_quiet well that was the up coming ATI 750 Theater Pro far better ver of 550, 650 but to bad it got AXs when AMD bought it damn it, any way soon I be rev a loaner Elgato Game Capture HD60 to take for run spin.
Keep in mind that when I tested the Elgato the HD-PVR 2 has a sharper picture and better color contrast at time that was a long time ago when I test it so I would have re-req a loaner card and do a new compare equal compression at 14, 8 and 6Mbit/s, The Elgato dose beat the First Model HD-PVR in picture quality in fact you can see the diff right way just in this Video Clip.
And there are other reason why some would pick the HD-PVR over Elgato like as usually_quiet pointed out DD5.1 support and other thing as I listed below.
I look at preferences of what the best bang for buck as in like what can do vs other and sure the picture quality compare is about now.

usually_quiet yup that right the HD-PVR Rocket is not well supported

Here what Elgato Game Capture HD got going for it
Better Portable
Higher Bitrate
I do like the fact that they made a direct connected PS3 patch cable

Here what Hauppauge HD-PVR 2 GE Plus got going for it
Optical Audio Input for recording AC3/DD 5.1
S/Video Input
Composite input
HDMI Audio recording AC3/DD 5.1 support
IR/IR Blaster
Lots of 3rd party App

Are you trying to say that recording in the same bitrate on both devices is pointless because YouTube downgrades everything to the same 6 Mbps? Sorry it's not pointless as recording

No I mean it pointless because YouTube downgrades to 6Mbit/s vs run it at true side by side at full bitrate in which it was record at with out downgrade it to 6Mbit/s.

[Edit] Oh, just in case you don't already know, Elgato has a new HDMI-only capture device, the Elgato Game Capture HD60. It captures 1080p at up to 60fps.

Yup that but there all ready some download side to as you all ready know
There no Analog Input so buy a HDMI convert box
Forget Youtube and Steaming as we will not going get 1080p/60fps anytime soon maybe next years
For now twitch.tv and maybe even hitbox.tv maybe the only one's support it but do keep in mind you end up losing view, personally I think there working just do x265 encoder when come to 1080p/60fps.

[jagabo]

The Elgato Game Capture HD supports composite input via the green connector of the component pigtail. It ignores Macrovision when recording composite. Ie, you can capture Macrovision protected VHS tapes.

Youtube has announced that they will start supporting 60 fps later this year.

[SHS]

The Elgato Game Capture HD supports composite input via the green connector of the component pigtail. It ignores Macrovision when recording composite. Ie, you can capture Macrovision protected VHS tapes.

Youtube has announced that they will start supporting 60 fps later this year.

The sad part is Elgato Game Capture HD yes but even today they still don't list in there specs sheet on there own web site nor any web store and it Red connector not Green.

[jagabo]

I just noticed that El Gato also offers a composite/s-video pigtail now.
http://help.elgato.com/customer/portal/articles/1020263?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticl...englishdefault

[SHS]

I just noticed that El Gato also offers a composite/s-video pigtail now.
http://help.elgato.com/customer/portal/articles/1020263?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticl...englishdefault

You didn't know that

[jagabo]

Why should I know that? I have no use for composite or s-video capture. I don't work for Elgato or have any type of relationship with them other than owning a Game Capture HD. I also own a Hauppague HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition. I rarely use both. But they both have advantages and disadvantages.

[SHS]

Why should I know that? I have no use for composite or s-video capture. I don't work for Elgato or have any type of relationship with them other than owning a Game Capture HD. I also own a Hauppague HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition. I rarely use both. But they both have advantages and disadvantages.

Then take you never look on web store then you would have know that had a offers a composite/s-video pigtail.

[jagabo]

Then take you never look on web store then you would have know that had a offers a composite/s-video pigtail.

Like I said, I have no interest in composite or s-video input with the Elgato Game Capture HD. Why would I go to their web store looking for the adapter? Why would I go to their web store looking for anything at all? The device came with everything I needed. Unlike you, I'm not here to promote one company's products. Why is it so important to you to point out that I wasn't aware of the adapter? Are you really so petty?

[SHS]

Then take you never look on web store then you would have know that had a offers a composite/s-video pigtail.

Like I said, I have no interest in composite or s-video input with the Elgato Game Capture HD. Why would I go to their web store looking for the adapter? Why would I go to their web store looking for anything at all? The device came with everything I needed. Unlike you, I'm not here to promote one company's products. Why is it so important to you to point out that I wasn't aware of the adapter? Are you really so petty?

What Ever jagabo

[Cauptain]

Come on guys, relax everebody. It was a misunderstanding only.

Focus on topic.

[VideoFanatic]

Jagabo how did you get on with the Elgato software version I suggested?

On another subject there's a new Elgato product called the Elgato Game Capture HD60. Seems to do the same thing as the Game Capture HD but it can record in 1080p at 60fps.

[jagabo]

Jagabo how did you get on with the Elgato software version I suggested?

I downloaded the file but haven't tried it out yet. The device is currently boxed up and I haven't had time.

[VideoFanatic]

I've just noticed that sometimes some recordings with the Elgato Game Capture HD have a line of garbage pixels on the bottom like this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OlFuehIssbrsiP3LltOs9JkehR5I7o43LyHAMulxGhc/edit

Is there any way to prevent that happening other that cropping it after the fact?

[usually_quiet]

I've just noticed that sometimes some recordings with the Elgato Game Capture HD have a line of garbage pixels on the bottom like this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OlFuehIssbrsiP3LltOs9JkehR5I7o43LyHAMulxGhc/edit

Is there any way to prevent that happening other that cropping it after the fact?

Probably not. It isn't unusual for TV broadcasts to include some defects that are visible on the edges of the picture when it's viewed on a PC. Historically TVs have used overscan to hide these defects, but you wouldn't want to use a TV's overscan with a PC. I think some players may have a crop or overscan feature.

[VideoFanatic]

On another issue, I've just noticed a problem in my recent recordings. This isn't the dropped frames problem as I've solved that by using the 1.42.9 (524) software. My problem is that maybe one or twice at random in a recording, the video will freeze for a couple of seconds then it goes to black for a second then the picture continues playing as normal. Or sometimes recordings don't have that problem at all. Does anyone else have that problem or do you know how to fix it?

The problem wouldn't be caused by me using a HDMI splitter to remove the HDCP protection would it?

I called Elgato about this problem and they said they don't offer support to people using HDMI splitters!

Was wondering what encoding chip and software version the Elgato HD60 Game Capture uses and how is it different from the Elgato Game Capture HD?

[SHS]

On another issue, I've just noticed a problem in my recent recordings. This isn't the dropped frames problem as I've solved that by using the 1.42.9 (524) software. My problem is that maybe one or twice at random in a recording, the video will freeze for a couple of seconds then it goes to black for a second then the picture continues playing as normal. Or sometimes recordings don't have that problem at all. Does anyone else have that problem or do you know how to fix it?

The problem wouldn't be caused by me using a HDMI splitter to remove the HDCP protection would it?

I called Elgato about this problem and they said they don't offer support to people using HDMI splitters!

Was wondering what encoding chip and software version the Elgato HD60 Game Capture uses and how is it different from the Elgato Game Capture HD?

It possible it would be causes DRM junk but there no really no way being 100% sure of it as there are min thing that causes dropped frames even freezing for a few milliseconds.
It a Fujitsu MB86H56 Transcoder