Please help with simple DVD menu problem.

[dipstick666]

Hello.

I have been attempting something that I was certain would be quite simple, but after days of reading articles and trying out a large variety of software, I am beginning to understand that it may not even be possible. After much frustration, one day it occurred to me that there must be many people that are quite knowledgeable in DVD structure and protocol, and some of them probably wouldn't mind spending a very small amount of their time in order to save me a great deal of mine. If you are one of those people, I would very much appreciate your help.

It seems that what I'm trying to do is either virtually effortless or absolutely impossible, so here's the deal:

I want to make 1 DVD5 backup copy of each of the commercial BD and DVD disks in my collection. Sounds simple enough, right? I mean it's done hundreds of times each day, all over the world. However, I evidently have a unique goal (or actually more of a prerequisite) in the backup process. It's evidently unique because I cannot find anyone else who wants to do it, nor can I find templates for doing it with any BD/DVD authoring software. What I want is just a matter of making a simple menu, so why has this been so hard for me? I'm not exactly an idiot when it comes to computers, software and video, but after the past few days I certainly feel like one.

So, great ones, please tell me how I may fulfill the following deceptively unobtrusive prerequisites within my little project:

1) There will be one title (usually the main movie) per backed up disk.

2) The title will have chapters.

3) The disk will have one menu and no sub-menus.

4) The menu will appear on the screen when the disk is inserted into the player.

5) The ONLY buttons (or user interactions) available from the menu are the choice of chapters. One possible exception could be a "Play Movie From Beginning" button, but that would merely be linked identical to the "Chapter 1" button.

6) IF POSSIBLE: After X amount of time has elapsed with no interaction from the user, video manager jumps to the beginning of the first chapter AND PAUSES there.

7) IF POSSIBLE: It is normal for video manager to remember the play position at the time the stop button on the remote is pressed. I think my PS3 even remembers the position after the disk is ejected and the player is turned off. BUT CAN I: (7a) Have a button on the menu that will return to, and start playing from the last previous play position? AND FURTHERMORE CAN I: (7b) Have a button that acts the same as 7a, except pauses there instead of start playing?

Folks, maybe I should be ashamed to say it, but I kind of freaked out after I eventually started trying to figure out the exact bits and bytes of DVD menu structure. At this point I'm inclined to believe that what I want might not be possible, solely due to the requirements and limitations inherent in the DVD structure. I have tried a lot of software, both pay and free, and of varying complexity and ability. I'm still left pulling my hair out. Please help me if you can, but please note that I am not interested in software or methods for ripping, burning, muxing, chapter making, protection bypass... Or anything else other than a way to make the simple menu that meets the criteria above.

Please help if you can. And if you can, well woo-hoo, you da man! (and/or woman!), and thank you VERY MUCH.

I tried to be somewhat detailed (or was it long winded?), but if you have any questions please feel free to ask. I'll be happy to do what I can to help you help me.

Oh, and I guess I should mention that there is a potential fly in the ointment. So far during the course of this project I have been unable to try several applications, such as DVD Architect. I am using Windows 8, which comes with Net Framework 4.5. DVD Architect and some others require Net Framework 3.5, but try as I might, I am unable to install it on my computer (another frustrating story). Just an FYI in case your solution falls into this category.

[enim]

I'm not exactly an idiot when it comes to computers, software and video, but after the past few days I certainly feel like one.

you just feel like one, and here I am such an ..... when it come to computers. But, I am very sharp when it comes to watching DVDs can see minor details and rest I leave it up to imaginations. Apart from these I barely know abc of DVD.

[manono]

The first 5 are so simple that just about any DVD authoring program will accomplish them. You can help matters along by making a 720x480 BMP of how you want that menu to look. I use the freeware DVDAuthorGUI for such things. I open my BMPs in Menu->Create M2V Still and it then makes an M2V which I open to set up the buttons and menu navigation. All pretty easy but many other authoring programs can do the same. In fact, this is so basic I wonder why you couldn't figure all this out yourself after days of reading articles and trying out a large variety of software.

I've never heard of any DVD authoring program offering your sixth request. The seventh request might require some more complex program, but since I've never needed that feature I don't know which program to recommend. Maybe someone else does.

I have no idea what works and doesn't work on Win8.

[dipstick666]

The first 5 are so simple that just about any DVD authoring program will accomplish them.

You would think so, but have you actually ever heard of, or tried to author a DVD that has ONLY a chapter menu? That's what I'm trying to do.

You can help matters along by making a 720x480 BMP of how you want that menu to look.

Well it's a little bigger than that, but it's 16x9 format:

[Attachment 18369 - Click to enlarge]

[dipstick666]

this is so basic I wonder why you couldn't figure all this out yourself after days of reading articles and trying out a large variety of software.

Yes, I know. I do appreciate your ideas, but you do realize that's an insult, right?

[dipstick666]

I wonder why too. Even though people continue to tell me how intelligent I am, it usually doesn't really seem that way to me. Perhaps I am an idiot after all.

[Bjs]

3# and 5# conflict

If only main menu exists then its going to get awlfully busy if it too contains multiple chapter sellections.

6# interesting ... I'll look into that interaction bit

7#

From what Ive seen when stop is requested it is the hardware player which controls "stop" and "start" (from last play position) ... thrown into this mix is the screen saver funtion which kicks in after an amount of time has passed. These funtions are programed into the hardware player and have little to do with the dvd itself.

[ronmaz]

I want to make 1 DVD5 backup copy of each of the commercial BD and DVD disks in my collection.

The majority of commercial DVD's are on DVD9's so shrinking to a DVD5 will cause a loss in quality. BD's are either 25 or 50 gig so shrinking one of those to a DVD5 will look like total crap.

Anyway, TMPGEnc Authoring Works will easily do 1-5 of what you want but it's not free.
I have never seen a program that will do 6 or 7 though.

Yes, I know. I do appreciate your ideas, but you do realize that's an insult, right?

Yeah he does that a lot. You get used to it after a while and it's even funny sometimes.

[manono]

You would think so, but have you actually ever heard of, or tried to author a DVD that has ONLY a chapter menu?

Yes. And yes, many times. At the bottom of this post is an example of one I made. Nothing fancy but it gets the job done. As I said, it's the easiest thing in the world. Have you ever created a menu for a DVD before?

You can help matters along by making a 720x480 BMP of how you want that menu to look.

Well it's a little bigger than that, but it's 16x9 format:

Another statement that belies your claim to have researched this thoroughly. 4:3 or 16:9, it doesn't matter. The menu will still be 720x480. You should be able to use yours once you resize it to 720x480 and encode it (or have it encoded, as I described earlier) for 16:9.

Yes, I know. I do appreciate your ideas, but you do realize that's an insult, right?

Yes, but if you had done the research you claimed, or experimented with any number of authoring programs, you'd have figured all this out for yourself by now. The program I use is free, but only one of many that can do the first five of your requirements. ronmaz suggested another good one if you don't mind spending some money.

[racer-x]

Oh, and I guess I should mention that there is a potential fly in the ointment. So far during the course of this project I have been unable to try several applications, such as DVD Architect. I am using Windows 8, which comes with Net Framework 4.5. DVD Architect and some others require Net Framework 3.5, but try as I might, I am unable to install it on my computer (another frustrating story). Just an FYI in case your solution falls into this category.

Have you tried turning on DotNet 3.5 in the "Add Remove Windows Features"?

[p_l]

It's been a while since I used it regularly, but Ulead DVD Workshop 2 might be your best bet to accomplish #6. You might try something along the lines of using its customizable playlist feature to timeout and jump from the main menu to an infinite loop of your chapter menu (bitmap still-based). You'll have to install Ulead DWS 2 on an XP computer, or do I as I've done now, install it within an XP Virtual Machine.

It'll be a challenge, a learning curve you'll have to figure out mostly on your own because this excellent DVD authoring program has fallen into disuse since Corel bought the company and put the program on out an ice floe, and you'll have to jump through a number of workaround hoops, but if it's really that important to you, it might very well be your best shot.

[dipstick666]

Last night while trying to sleep I realized that I went into way too much detail with my post, and I apologize. Most of those paragraphs could have been summed up into one sentence:

Given the requirements and specifications of DVD structure, is it possible for a disk to have ONLY a chapter menu?

As you know, I have been searching for this answer for days. Despite claims of knowledge in this area, nobody has given me a clear answer. Despite claims of having actually done it, nobody has shown me an example. I know that it is still early, and I may yet find my definitive answer. I still have hope.

Above all else, I want to be sure everyone knows that I very much appreciate ANY help. This includes the ridiculing as well as the empathy. I still have hope for 2 reasons. First of all, people keep telling me that what I want is possible. 2nd, today I found this from here: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/dvdstyler/index.php?title=FAQEpisodeDVDStructure

a single-title DVD can substitute a chapter menu for the root menu

I am such an ..... when it come to computers, I barely know abc of DVD.

Despite what some of the meaner people may tell you, this means absolutely nothing. What you have learned, or not learned in your life is not a measure of your intelligence, or your worth as a being in general. And thank you for commenting in my thread.

3# and 5# conflict

I don't understand why this is so, unless you're just saying that it's not possible to have a DVD with one menu, and have chapter buttons on that menu. Is that it?

If only main menu exists then its going to get awfully busy if it too contains multiple chapter selections.

Again, I don't understand why. If this is because of something to do with coding or what is possible, then if you have time, please explain further. If you mean that the menu would be just too busy visually, or be hard to read, then I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Please take a look at my attachment again, and keep in mind that I had no real goals or tests in mind when I created it. I was just kind of playing around. Given that 99% of my backups are viewed on my 64 inch Hi Def screen, and that is really the only screen I care much about, I have calculated that the whole chapter selection area in that test menu will be about 20 inches wide by 12.5 tall. Each of those chapter selection buttons would be 1.7 inches tall. Right this second I am looking at some words on the screen that say "NBC NEWS", and they cannot be bigger than 3/8 inches tall. I have absolutely no problem reading them, and they do not appear to be "awfully busy", so I don't understand how I'll have trouble reading words that are 1.7 inches tall. Anyway, I'm getting off track since that's not really the issue here (unless I'm misunderstanding something). If you could convince me that I'm wrong about this, or possibly wrong, I will do more experimenting. Maybe I need to make a test DVD with this image, to see it actual size on the screen.

6# interesting ... I'll look into that interaction bit

I appreciate it. I know that for most people, time is their most valuable resource.

From what Ive seen when stop is requested it is the hardware player which controls "stop" and "start" (from last play position) ... thrown into this mix is the screen saver function which kicks in after an amount of time has passed. These funtions are programed into the hardware player and have little to do with the dvd itself.

I am aware that the video manager within various players acts differently per brand and model, but for the most part they usually have similar functions. I was wondering if you thought there was perhaps some way these these actions could be overridden or controlled to do some of the things I want. And thank you for commenting in my thread.

The majority of commercial DVD's are on DVD9's so shrinking to a DVD5 will cause a loss in quality.

Yes, I'm aware. I don't think I'm the crazy one though. There are many people putting backups on single layer DVD's. Of course any time you reduce the file size or bitrate of an image it will be what we call "lossy compression", and that means there will be at least some reduction of quality. As we know, video is just a series of images. However, it has been my experience that it is possible to reduce the file sizes of videos (even from 50GB BDs) and retain acceptable quality. What's acceptable? I don't know. That's up to the individual, and for me it varies depending on how much I care about a certain movie, and how many times I think other people in my life, as well as myself might want to watch it. At this point in our history I wouldn't consider backing up a movie to DVD5 if it won't produce better quality than HD VHS, and is at least close to what is considered to be normally "acceptable" for DVD quality. There are some movies that are 50 or 80 minutes long. There are some movies that are animated. I have found that these especially, as well as others produce pretty good quality on DVD5 backups, and as technology progresses it only continues to get better. Not counting the SVCD backups that I made years ago (which was actually very good quality for CDs), I have made more than 1,000 backups, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were closer to 2,000. I have been doing it for decades, and I've made many backups in nearly every normal method our technology allows, including but not limited to backups via VHS, VCD, SVCD, DVD, AVCHD, and 1 to 1 BD. I'm not trying to boast, but I do know a little about the varying qualities available.

BD's are either 25 or 50 gig so shrinking one of those to a DVD5 will look like total crap.

Again, perhaps, but it's really a matter of individual taste and need. Honestly, it doesn't have to look like crap if you know what you're doing. Believe it or not, there are even some people that I watch TV with that say they can't even tell a difference between a nice, crisp, high bitrate BD and the DVD backups I make.

Yeah he does that a lot. You get used to it after a while and it's even funny sometimes.

Great, one of those deals. We put up with it because we need it. And thank you for commenting in my thread.

Yes. And yes, many times. At the bottom of this post is an example of one I made. Nothing fancy but it gets the job done. As I said, it's the easiest thing in the world.

Again, if I sound the least bit snippy please keep in mind that above all else, I do appreciate your help. Having said that, I'm not sure if you grasp the real nature of my problem. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure you will), but your example seems not to be of a chapter menu, but of a title menu. Aren't those titles of individual videos or movies? I looked up a few of those "chapters", and according to youtube they are individual videos, also known as individual "titles". My understanding of a chapter menu is that it allows you to choose from different points of time within a certain title. I have made many title menus and I have made many chapter menus. For some stinkin lousy reason though, I just can't seem to make a DVD menu that is the only menu on the disk, and it is a chapter menu. I don't think you have shown me that in your example, and I certainly have never seen a template of such. It seems that if it could be done, there would be at least one template in one of the many DVD authoring programs I've tried. But then again, if you are correct I'm probably just a moron.

Have you ever created a menu for a DVD before?

Do you really not know, or is this another dig? Yes, I've made many menus, VCD, DVD BD, and otherwise.

Another statement that belies your claim to have researched this thoroughly. 4:3 or 16:9, it doesn't matter. The menu will still be 720x480. You should be able to use yours once you resize it to 720x480 and encode it (or have it encoded, as I described earlier) for 16:9.

I'm not sure if you're telling me that I'm a liar or that I'm stupid, but another statement that belies your implied claim to be a video (and therefore an image) guru, is that x/y ratio doesn't matter. If your end project result is to have a 16:9 ratio, then it's best to start with, and design in a 16:9 ratio. Otherwise you're likely to run into stretching or shrinking problems, and people and objects will be perceived in the wrong ratio. In other words people will look taller or fatter than they actually are (I know females that would not be happy). You probably realize that you can fix this with content aware scaling, but why go to the trouble if it takes less time to just design properly? Also, I don't know if you read this earlier, but I had no goals or tests in mind when I made that test menu. I was just experimenting and playing around. I don't intend to use it, since I don't care enough about that movie to back it up again. I only picked that movie because it was the easiest to grab a screen shot from. I am aware that the most common of the NTSC disks are 720x480 (there's other sizes too). I was not going to go to the trouble to open it up again, and scale it to your preferred size.

...but if you had done the research you claimed, or experimented with any number of authoring programs, you'd have figured all this out for yourself by now.

Honest. Really. I am not lying about this stuff. I can't even see how that would benefit me. This is kind of weird for me though. I don't normally feel the need to defend myself so much. Maybe you just bring out the best in me. And thank you very much for commenting in my thread.

Have you tried turning on DotNet 3.5 in the "Add Remove Windows Features"?

Yes I have tried that. I have tried everything suggested on the Microsoft web site, including downloading from them, and reinstalling from my windows 8 disk. I have read about this on other sites too, and it seems I have a unique problem. My next step is to completely uninstall all versions and traces of Net Framework and start from scratch, but I want to research this some more before I do so. And thank you for commenting in my thread.

It's been a while since I used it regularly, but Ulead DVD Workshop 2 might be your best bet to accomplish #6. You might try something along the lines of using its customizable playlist feature to timeout and jump from the main menu to an infinite loop of your chapter menu (bitmap still-based). You'll have to install Ulead DWS 2 on an XP computer, or do I as I've done now, install it within an XP Virtual Machine.

It'll be a challenge, a learning curve you'll have to figure out mostly on your own because this excellent DVD authoring program has fallen into disuse since Corel bought the company and put the program on out an ice floe, and you'll have to jump through a number of workaround hoops, but if it's really that important to you, it might very well be your best shot.

Thank you very much for commenting in my thread, and I want you to know that you may have helped me a great deal. You have given me some ideas, in addition to the idea to use that app. I made a few disks with that, seems like long ago now, but maybe I need to break out that install disk again and do some more experimenting. I'm not going to talk about the other ideas at this time, partially because for some reason I now have an irrational fear of looking stupid.

Still hopeful folks. Still learning. Bring it on, please.

[manono]

Despite claims of knowledge in this area, nobody has given me a clear answer.

Nonsense. And I even showed you an example of one out of many I've done. Sure, it consists of episodes, but pretend each episode is a chapter. I set it up so that after playing each episode it returns to that one-and-only menu. I could just have easily had it continue to the next episode/chapter/cell, whatever you want to call it.

Again, if I sound the least bit snippy please keep in mind that above all else, I do appreciate your help. Having said that, I'm not sure if you grasp the real nature of my problem.

The problem is of your own making. You should probably set it up to be the root menu (as mine is). It's probably not a good idea to designate your only menu as the chapter menu. But it doesn't matter in the least that your root menu consists of buttons and menu commands for a bunch of chapters/cells.

Aren't those titles of individual videos or movies?

Yes, they are six titles/PGCs. They could just as easily be six cells/chapters within the same title/PGC.

For some stinkin lousy reason though, I just can't seem to make a DVD menu that is the only menu on the disk, and it is a chapter menu.

You're right in that I didn't understand the important thing to you was that it actually be called the chapter menu. As I've explained, I don't think that's such a good idea. What possible bit of difference could it make to you that it's called a root menu as long as you can access the various chapters from that root menu?

Do you really not know, or is this another dig? Yes, I've made many menus, VCD, DVD BD, and otherwise.

Nope, just asking. So this whole thread is all about actually being able to name your only menu the chapter menu? You already know how to create the menu and the buttons and menu commands and everything else? OK then, even if your authoring program doesn't let you name that first and only menu as the chapter menu, but wants to name it like every other single-menu DVD ever made, as the root menu, then afterwards you can use PGCEdit to rename it as the chapter menu and redo the menu commands so they point to that chapter menu and not a non-existent root menu. I have absolutely no idea why you'd want to do that to begin with, though - make a single menu called a chapter menu. Not ever having seen one, I don't know how your remote control would get back to that menu while playing the DVD. Maybe by hitting the 'top menu' button it'll return to the menu.

So, yes, I included that picture earlier because I figured you wanted to see an example of a single menu consisting only of buttons to go to chapters. It never dawned on me until today that having that menu named as the chapter menu was the whole point. One can only wonder why. None of your seven numbered requests detailed in your first post mentioned anything at all about that single menu being named the chapter menu.

[p_l]

Given the requirements and specifications of DVD structure, is it possible for a disk to have ONLY a chapter menu?

Short answer: Yes, you can. I do it all the time.

The catch is I do it with a Toshiba RD-XS35 DVD recorder which is as excellent as it is hard to find these days.



Although with DVD authoring software I used to make mostly episode menus (from separate titles), I think I also remember making an occasional chapter only menu (from only one title), for example the 4th still menu in post #19 in this old thread (my brother's wedding).

I haven't done a chapter only menu with DVD authoring software on the computer in a really long time (I'll author the occasional Blu-ray nowadays), so perhaps someone who uses current versions of DVD authoring programs can pick it up from here and give you specifics, but at least you now know that it can be done.

[dipstick666]

then, even if your authoring program doesn't let you name that first and only menu as the chapter menu, but wants to name it like every other single-menu DVD ever made, as the root menu, then afterwards you can use PGCEdit to rename it as the chapter menu and redo the menu commands so they point to that chapter menu and not a non-existent root menu. I have absolutely no idea why you'd want to do that to begin with, though - make a single menu called a chapter menu.

manono, skip to the last paragraph if you just want to know how you may have helped me the most.

Thanks for this, it is kind of what I've been looking for. Some clear method or process to do what I want. In a few days (time allowing) I will try to follow what you recommend above, step by step, just like it's a guide. (I do have PGCEdit, but I haven't played around with it that much.) I realize that what I want is not the popular request. It's not so important why I want to do something, only that I want it, and I need to know if it's even possible. However, you and others have been kind enough to attempt to render aid, so the least I can do is to attempt to ease your curiosity a bit:

NOTE: You could skip this paragraph if you don't care why I want what I want:
Why do I want it? In a word: "streamlining". In several words: I'm sick and tired of these so-called "sophisticated, yet easy to use" DVD authoring programs. If they are easy to use, then you're expected to only use templates. Of course there are no templates of what I want, because as some of you have pointed out, what I want is stupid. Every template I've seen that allows for chapters has a maximum of 6 per page, and many have only 3, and there is no way to change that without editing XML or something in order to make your own template. IMO, THAT is what's stupid. What if I want a chapter every 3 minutes (unusual, but not out of the question)? Then, for a 90 minute movie I have to fight through 30 pages of chapter menus? And 40 pages for a 2 hour movie? No thanks, not for me. If I have 20 or 30 chapters I see no reason why they can't be on one page, especially if I just use text buttons, and especially if I am only using a 64 inch TV. I have 15 chapters in my example, and the buttons don't even take up 1/3 of the available space. I hardly ever have the need for an audio menu, and I even more rarely have a need for a subtitle menu. My system simulates 7.1 surround when there are only 2 channels (don't know how, but it's surprisingly awesome), and I hate being forced to read in order to watch a movie, so I don't even bother with those. Don't need a settings menu. However I wouldn't mind a choice of chapters, since I use them often. Most of my backups are of single titles, so on these I find no need to be forced to choose a title (in many templates), or be forced to go to a chapter menu from a root menu (in all templates), before I can choose chapters from the one and only title. I guess streamlining is all about the number of keystrokes. Maybe 5% of the movies I back up I care enough about to make 1:1 copies (usually BDs), and obviously for these I have no need to know how to make menus. Now on the other hand, if the software is sophisticated, experience seems to show me that it will take more time than I'm willing to spend in order to learn the software. I'm pretty sure there is a simple solution somewhere. Now I hope that helps to clear up why I want it, otherwise I'd be happy to answer additional questions. If you still think it's a bad idea, fine. Please call me an idiot, then help me achieve my goals.

Now here's how you may have helped me the most. I don't actually care what each type of menu is named. Up until a few minutes ago I was under the impression that what you call a certain menu, actually meant something. My understanding was that there were Root, Title, Chapter, and Settings menus, and each of them had certain functions that could not be overridden or exchanged. Furthermore I was beginning to believe that the first menu to show up had to be the root menu. This is probably due to too much time spent with the "easy to use" software. I have learned that you can "skip" the root menu under certain circumstances, but I was hoping to avoid it's existence all together. If I have to create a chapter menu and call it root menu, well that's just fine with me as long as the end goal is achieved. In a few days I will have some time, and I'll try renaming and some other things you mention.

Thanks again.

[dipstick666]

None of your seven numbered requests detailed in your first post mentioned anything at all about that single menu being named the chapter menu.

Again, I don't care what a menu is called as long as it does what I want.

3) The disk will have one menu and no sub-menus.

5) The ONLY buttons (or user interactions) available from the menu are the choice of chapters.

I realize now, that to avoid confusion I should have limited my post to something like this, at least to start. Sorry.

[dipstick666]

The catch is I do it with a Toshiba RD-XS35 DVD recorder which is as excellent as it is hard to find these days.

Wow, that looks like it might work great for what I want. Too bad it's bundled in hardware. I found one of those on Ebay for $138 with shipping, but it was not even functional.

Thanks for the examples. More ideas for me.

[manono]

I'll walk you through changing a Root Menu to being named a Chapter Menu in just a sec, but there's something else.

NOTE: You could skip this paragraph if you don't care why I want what I want:

I was interested but, to me, your reasons make no sense. Authoring programs use templates that don't allow for more than six chapters? So don't use a template. I don't use any of the commercial ones, but I don't believe the TMPGEnc Authoring Works mentioned earlier by ronmaz, while it has templates, requires the use of templates. The same with another one highly regarded around here, DVDLab-Pro. I expect most could use your picture (if it were resized to 720x480) and create a button for each chapter number on it. I know DVDAuthorGUI can (but don't know about using it in Win8, as I mentioned). The number of buttons allowed is limited only by the DVD specs (36 for 4:3 menus, 18 for 16:9 menus). I expect that's true for most authoring programs.

Up until a few minutes ago I was under the impression that what you call a certain menu, actually meant something. My understanding was that there were Root, Title, Chapter, and Settings menus, and each of them had certain functions that could not be overridden or exchanged.

Nah, call them whatever you like. The Root Menu can have the chapters, the Chapters Menu can have the subtitle choices. As long as the other menu commands are done correctly and consistently. OK, down to business. If your menus are different from this example, you can still make them however you like. The principle is the same. Find the menu you want and change it, followed by finding all the menu commands that referred to the old name and change them to the new name.

Open the DVD in PGCEdit. Right-click on the one to be changed (the Root Menu in this example) and hit 'Set Menu Type'. In the new screen change it from Root Menu to Chapter Menu. Do a search in the bottom center search box for all instances of Root Menu. In my example one turned up, at the very beginning. It's orange because there's no longer any Root Menu for it to jump to, as it's been renamed as Chapter Menu. Go to that one instance where it's named Root Menu in the 'First Play PGC' and double-click on it. In the new screen that opens up, hit the 'Root Menu' button and change it to 'Chapter Menu'. Go back to the main screen, save your changes (File->Save DVD is one way), test it in software before burning to disc and testing on your DVD player.

[Kerry56]

I showed him how to do this over at MyCE using Lab Pro. Very simple to do.

[r0lZ]

There is an important side effect when you change the Root menu to Chapter menu. The Root menu PGC can be called with the remote when the movie is playing. The Chapter menu, in the other hand, is not callable directly with the remote, as there is no "chapter menu" button on most remote controllers. This is the main difference in the menu types. They can store anything (for example chapters buttons in the root menu), but they cannot be called by the user in exactly the same way.
So, imo, you should not rename the Chapter menu to Root menu (or vice-versa), unless you have a good reason to do it, and you understand the implications. Especially, if you rename the Root menu to Chapter menu, the titleset will no longer have a root menu to jump to, and therefore you will be unable to interrupt the movie and return to the menu.
Of course, if you author the DVD from scratch, you can include exactly the menus you want, but remember that you need a Root menu PGC to be able to call your menus with the remote. (The Title menu entry can also be used, but it is more complicated to use and it should be used only to switch between titles.)

[dipstick666]

Hello again people. I just wanted to pop in to let you know that I haven't given up on this project, and I hope to post my final results soon. I've not been able to work on this for about the past week or so, due to a condition called gastroparesis. Look it up if you're curious, but it's extremely unpleasant when it's at it's worst, and I don't feel like doing anything other than trying to sleep through it. I've lost 50 pounds without trying, since this started a few months ago.

I feel a little overwhelmed at this point. I certainly didn't expect this many comments, both from this forum and the one at club.myce. I have much more than expected to review, and I'm leaning toward this being a good thing. MMmmm, yes, it's official. I think this is a good thing, so thank you very much to everyone who's tried to help so far. If anyone is interested in this project, I recommend reading my thread on both forums. Good stuff both places.