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  1. I am given a task to come up with a shopping list for an NGO.
    They work with indigenous people around the world filming interviews and b-roll.

    The budget is a total of £3,000, which is around $4,700 (3/4 for Video and 1/4 for Photographic gear). I might push it more later in the future.

    I kindly request help with forming up this list, particularly with the camera choices.

    One thing I consider is to suggest getting a photographic camera that can shoot video, which makes it a bit more practical (though, I realize it poses some difficulties in shooting videos other than interviews).

    Is it better to go with a camcorder and entry level photo camera? Or a better photo camera that can shoot video? Which model, with what lens?

    If you got extra time, I would appreciate help with supplementary gear too. A list that I was suggested some time ago has all that I can think of:

    - monopod (possibly Manfrotto 561 BHDV-1 or the new Benro S4)
    - fluid head tripod (perhaps not urgent if we purchase the monopod)
    - Lapel wireless microphone
    - and an independent recorder like Tascam or Zoom?
    (+ We have already purchased a Rode Video Mic Pro and it deadcat)
    - headphones,
    - small lighting kit,
    - At leats 3 SD digital memory cards,
    - one or two spare batteries
    - 5 way reflector,
    - Black and white sheet of silk (drape over things for dampening background),

    What brands/models do you suggest?

    Many thanks in advance.
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  2. Hello again
    Do you stlli seek to purchase only Panasonic equipment? or this time are you open to other brands? (I bought the AG-HMC40 last year an am very happy with it, although the AG-AC90 looks very interesting, precisely because it has some features, the former model lacked such as double card slots, integrated XLR audio with phantom power, 1080/60P recording, etc..)
    About the subject of using a digital photographic camera as a camcorder, this thread may be of interest (specially the first posts, before the bizantine discusion takes place)
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/356388-I-Need-help-for-my-new-camera
    Regarding the list of equpment yo mention:
    - Do you have a special need for a monopod? it´s because you need to move fast?, any critical shooting conditions?
    - The standalone sound recorder is in case you choose a DSLR to shoot the interviews?
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  3. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    You can't afford to get both a good photo cam and a good video cam, and contrary to what is suggested many times, the 2 are still built to different requirements. So you need to decide which one is going to be the primary usage and which is the secondary.

    You still have a LOW budget as regards a "professional" location gear setup. But if you can get by with mainly Indie/Prosumer gear, you can probably swing it for a while until you're ready to move up.

    As julitomg mentioned, you can use a tripod as a monopod (though it will be comparatively bulky/heavy), but you can't use a monopod as a tripod. This goes back to deciding what your priorities are.

    I have been known to OFTEN suggest dual-system audio (separate audio recorder chain) for pro or semi-pro shoots, but in this case, you might be able to get by using the audio capability of your camera/camcorder, as long as it:
    1. allows connection to and support of the kind of mikes you will be needing
    2. allows MANUAL control of levels (with AGC override)
    3. allows monitoring of the signal (via headphones)
    If those aren't possible with your cam choices, or if you know you are going to always have a separate audio guy on your shoots, then you will want to consider dual-system (zoom h2/h4, tascam dr-40, etc). Just remember, either way: what's best for video isn't usually what's best for audio.

    Light kit: something like a Lowell DP-3 (3point) is good and ~$1200, but that might be too much for you.

    Maybe you can be more specific - interviews & b-roll are pretty generic and there is a whole range of quality and workflow choices within those types...

    Scott
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  4. hi julitomg
    Thanks for replying so fast
    No, no need for going for Panasonic.
    Someone suggested that I go for Panasonic GH3 if I will choose for a video/photo combo.

    I could also consider Canon or Nikon if I go in that route. I own a Nikon and I will be one of the people who will use the kit. Likewise, my Professor owns a Canon and buying another Canon can have the advantage of sharing accessories.

    Thanks for the link. I couldn't help but said a couple words to stop the bizantine discussion
    I think that HV30 looks like a good camera for me to include in my list of suggestions. It's about $3000 though (with a 18-200 lens), so that might be reason for elimination.

    In the past we have used Panasonic TM700 or TM900 and they did what we needed. So, if we go for buying a video-specific camera, something in that price range but with newer technology would still be enough.

    Re your questions:
    - Actually I am not sure about our need for monopod. From my shaky recordings, I know I definitely need to go more stable A tripod sometimes hinders me when I follow a scene, while it is just perfect during interviews or other fixed frame recordings, or when I have time to move. I considered the monopod as a lighter alternative and as a midway between handheld and tripod. I might be overthinking this. However, I know that occasionally the size/weight of the kit will be important since we might have remote locations to shoot. If I have to pick one, which would be better?
    I feel like a tripod could still be used as a monopod in dire need. Maybe I can leave the monopod as a non-urgent item in the list.

    - Standalone sound recorder seemed like something that could improve my audio recordings, especially depending on what camera we buy. Sometimes I record a group of people in a roundtable discussion and when I move with the camera and the on-camera mic, the overall sound recording changes, giving me trouble in editing. I tried placing a mic on a small tripod and putting it in the middle of the group. It worked somewhat, but then my mobility was limited with the cable length to the camera. Lastly, I thought it could also function as a backup. In case my interview recording with Rode Videomic has a fault, the standalone recorder could be used. (When we purcahsed Rode, it came with PluralEyes software to sync the audio in post-production)
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  5. Scott, thanks for your reply too.
    I agree that I should make it more clear on how we'll use the equipment.
    We don't necessarily need to go pro. We want the equipment to be not too complicated to operate, to be able to provide footage/photos that can be used in the NGO website (http://www.global-diversity.org/), to create fundraising videos, and to have the newsletter decorated with photos.

    The link below has some videos I shot and edited. (you will see that my own level is still far from pro too ). It is from the summer academy that the NGO organizes.
    http://www.globalenvironments.org/video-gallery/

    I take your points regarding the audio, to the heart. I tried using a entry level Canon for some interviews and felt the lack of audio control there. I was really lucky that the audio came out alright. I could not even listen to what I was recording. The image quality was great though.

    Sadly, Nikon also doesn't have this audio control in the models that I can afford (personally or for this NGO). Canon 5D Mark III seems to have that taken care of. But I could only think of buying a used one, due to the budget.

    If this purchase was for me, I would go with a photographic camera that shoots nice video, because of practicality. But I want to suggest alternatives to my Professor so he can choose whatever best meets their future needs when I am not around.

    Yes, for the light kit, $1200 is really high price for us. We purchased this earlier, so hopefully I can transfer that light to be used in this kit:
    http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B004YT2JH0/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Didn't even have chance to try it out, so cannot comment on how well it works.
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  6. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    I'm not up on the Current price points for the current camera selections, so can't give a very good overview of recommendations there (I will in the fall when I go looking for my own kit upgrade, but that's probably too late for you, and I don't have time to do it any earlier).

    IIWY, I'd make a spreadsheet that did comparisons and then calculated totals, but also with constraints on totals and/or proportions. Also list ratings & pros/cons for devices. Note that in your original list, you included things you've already bought as well as expendables (items that you will use up & have to buy more of, such as SD cards, batteries, tape, makeup, etc). Break it out with better categorization & more detail. Don't forget to include support items.

    Still, I think you need to dig a little deeper in ironing out how you are going to be shooting & editing, etc.

    Have you included things such as cases, and insurance?
    How big will your crew(s) be and how mobile do your sets need to be? One-man-run-and-gun? 2 or 3 crew news reporter on street? indie doc style with producer, audio & lighting guys & PAs?
    Interior or Exterior or both? And do you have or intend to have backdrops?

    I suggest you approach this AS IF you were a FULL ON PROFESSIONAL, with professional requirements. Decide the scope of what you can/want to do. Then you know what it WOULD cost. THEN, you start economizing. That way, you know which corners you're cutting & what compromises you are making (and which one's you are and aren't willing to make).

    It does sound like you have more of a photo priority than video. If so, set that in stone and have the higher-ups SIGN OFF on that. Then you are in the clear down the road. Again, how MUCH video would you be shooting at a time? If no more than a hour or 2, and that with possible breaks, a photo cam might be viable. It is for a few indie doc producers I've worked with.

    I've never heard of that lamp, nor it's maker - not particularly impressed, but can't comment without having gotten either firsthand or respected 2nd-hand knowledge of it.

    Scott
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  7. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    I would say dual audio should be a priority because you get a backup, and it's easier to sync.

    And forget "Manfrotto" and think "WalMart".
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  8. learning quite a bit from the suggestions. Thanks.

    Scott, I think the priority in photos is caused by my personal skill level. I am more comfortable shooting photos than videos and it reflects on my work.

    I would say almost always it will be a one-man crew. Though, I could imagine occasionally being able to ask for help from whoever might be around, to give basic assistance, maybe with light or reflector etc.

    In my own case, the shoots have been both interior and exterior. I expect the future shoots to be similar.

    I would say the shootings would not be too long. I think the term you used, "indie doc" would describe the work I expect to be shot with this kit.

    I am already filling in the spreadsheet with the items I am suggested here in the forums.
    However, I feel I should have a fresh chat with my Prof because I realize I am not able to answer the questions you pose. Then I can come back here with more specific answers.

    Budwzr, am I correct to assume that with "dual audio" you mean having an on camera mic (Rode video mic) and and off camera sound recording? Or is it something else?

    and with WalMart, do you mean, I should just get a cheap, light tripod?
    In a previous project we had a cheap Manfrotto with a joystick 'ball head'. It was not smooth at all, was jerky, and had no fluidity. That's why I considered having a better tripod/monopod for the future. Seems like a good investment. I personally own a Manfrotto 055xProB, but I think it can be a burden to carry depending on the camera/lens choice we have at the end.
    (just to clarify, I don't consider my personal equipment as part of the kit, because I will not always be there to help this NGO and I wish to leave them a good enough kit for their needs. However, it can mean that we can get by with my equipment until further funding allows the NGO to buy the rest of the kit)
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  9. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    A ball head isn't for panning. A pan head is for panning.

    By WalMart, I mean just buy cheap stuff if it doesn't matter. A monopod is a stick with a screw thread on top, nothing more. You can make one with 3/4 ABS, a cap, drill a hole, insert a nut and bolt.

    Dual audio, in your case, is a separate recorder, in addition to the camera mic. That's the cheapest way to do it.

    Get a camcorder that shoots 1080p60, and has a decent lens with 10X optical zoom. The rest doesn't matter. I can't think of any Panasonic camera I like, but I'll take a look at them.

    P.S. And whatever Scott says overrides me. He's a pro, I'm not. I can't take another razzing
    Last edited by budwzr; 11th Jun 2013 at 21:19.
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  10. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    I don't see any Panasonic camcorders worth the money they're asking. The cheapest broadcast model is 4 Grand, and that's ridiculous. You don't need XLR inputs, just use a recorder, and plug a wired lav into it, or use it on a boom pole, or as a handheld mic, like a TV reporter.

    4K video is approaching rapidly, and all the 4 grand cameras are going to 2 Grand. A 2K camera will not hold it's value. That's why they're giving you a free one. They're not moving right now.
    Last edited by budwzr; 11th Jun 2013 at 21:38.
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  11. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    You can use a prosumer cam too. I shot this with my cheapo camcorder: http://files.videohelp.com/u/135518/LasVegas%20Promo.mp4
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  12. hi again. I just wanted to give you all an update on where we are with the NGO:

    We decided to wait for the new Canon 70D and get it. Perhaps we will also get a spare, used Canon 60D as a back up.
    Will probably get a 35 / 50 mm prime, and use kit lens 18-135 STM, and possibly later a larger zoom lens.

    For the dual audio, I am considering to get a Zoom H2N and a lav mic.
    I have looked through Zoom H4N, Zoom 1, Tascam Dr-07 MKii, DR-100 MKii, and Tascam DR40. H2N looked like to be somewhat in the middle in terms of price and quality/ bells&whistles.
    I am not sure whether it is worth to go with H4N, which could be a nice choice, because it looks bulky and expensive, though with XLR inputs. I don't know enough to say XLR will make such a big difference or whether it would matter for our YouTube/Vimeo videos.

    I am told to get this lav mic to match H2N:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68272-REG/Audio_Technica_AT803_AT803B_Mini_Clip_On.html

    It's XLR out so I will also need an adapter.

    Any thoughts?
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  13. For the extra $200 a proper beachtek adapter will cost you, get the recorder with xlrs.
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  14. how will it affect the setup?

    I am not sure if I understand what exactly you mean.
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  15. how will it affect the setup?

    I am not sure if I understand what exactly you mean.
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  16. Edit: Bottom line, get a recorder with XLR inputs. It gives you more options.

    Original Answer:
    I was addressing your question about XLRs. If you get an audio recorder with XLR connectors like the H4N you don't need a $200 beachtek XLR->mini adapter. You get more reliable audio and It's one less piece of equipment to carry around, plug in and/or lose. It makes your setup a little more streamlined.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=beachtek+adapter&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma...op+Nav-Search=

    And really, you need the beachtek, a simple "Radio Shack" XLR->mini adapter does not work without a lot of fussing.

    Hope that's a little clearer.
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  17. Thanks, I get it now.
    Would the H4N have similar controls like the beachtek, to control the recorded audio and do necessary adjustments?
    That's how I understand from your comments.
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  18. One thing I like on the beachtek is that it has actual knobs. That said, I use a Tascam similar to the Zoom and have never had any problems using the little buttons to adjust levels. Hundreds of people do it every day.
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  19. Originally Posted by smrpix View Post
    One thing I like on the beachtek is that it has actual knobs.
    I agree completly
    Another small benefit of having an adapter for XLR inputs is that you have both alternatives, XLR and miniplug (I have a Beachtek adapter for mt Panasonic camcorder and I can not only connect my XLR microphones but also I can use a couple of small inexpensive Audio Technica lavaliers with miniplug output, of course those are not nearly as good as their bigger pro brothers but are excelent as "emergency" or even "expendable" microphones)
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  20. thanks again for all the info. I spent three days/nights sleepless trying to choose, even spoke to BH specialists on chat, but did not feel as good as now, after reading your comments, about what to get

    or maybe i am just so dead tired
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  21. what other accessories should I get with the H4N? Things that are necessary for it to fit the rest of the gear and things that might make operation easier (I saw remote control, windscreen suggestion etc.) but can't decide what is necessary what is luxury. H4N is considerably more expensive than others, so I think I should refrain from spending money on accessories when not really necessary.
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  22. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    The H4n is a nice recorder, but not so much for field use. It's more of a studio recorder. The mic capsules are too sensitive, and it's a wide pattern multichannel recorder. That means if somebody farts anywhere in that pattern, you'll hear it.

    I have an H2, and a shotgun mic mounted to a monopod that I can use as a boom pole. I don't like to buy single use equipment. I try to get stuff that's versatile.

    With this "rig" I can plug in headphones as well. That's a Pedco clamp from Amazon. I can turn the pole around and use the recorder by itself if I want to record something moving, or need a wide stereo pattern.

    Last edited by budwzr; 19th Jul 2013 at 19:47.
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  23. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by incagraphy View Post
    The budget is a total of £3,000, which is around $4,700 (3/4 for Video and 1/4 for Photographic gear). I might push it more later in the future.
    That's a low budget. My photo camera was $5,000+
    For example:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006U49XM6/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&tag=th...6&linkCode=as2

    Most good video cameras start at $15K -- and I don't yet have one myself. No budget for it.

    Photo cameras really don't take great video. The sensor is not the ideal kind.

    The video cameras can't take photo worth anything, or not at all. The ISO performance is dismal. The resolution is low.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
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  24. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Hey, Smurf
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  25. hi Smurf,

    thanks for the suggestion. Yeah, D4 is my dream camera for my personal use. But yeah, we do have a low budget and actually I think it's enough for what we want to achieve. We do not need super high-quality videos.

    "Just decent" will do. We will use the videos for YouTube introduction videos of the NGO and the summer academy, and also share them with potential funding agencies. So, no prime-time airing.

    I briefly used Canon D60, and I can say on a setting with enough light, it was great quality for our purposes. So, a camera with relatively better low light shooting/ high ISO performance will do the job for us.

    I realize the serious filmmakers encourage us to get good quality equipment, but I am not even sure whether I can use all their capabilities myself. I am barely past the beginner level in filming, if at all.

    On a separate note:
    To add the end, we ended up purchasing the H4N and some accessories for it. But there was a misunderstanding in the delivery and UPS missed the chance to deliver it on time before we left. I will see how it works in a month or two. So this project, I will use Rode VideoMic

    For the camera, we're waiting on Canon D70 to come out, and in the meantime, I am eager to compare it to alternatives and pick proper lenses. SO Please keep suggestions coming in, but with our budget in mind
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