Is it possible to extract the matrix (cqm) from an xvid avi file?

[rickydavao]

Pursuant to a previous post here (I didn't want to dig up the old thread ...):
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/340754-extract-a-matrice-from-an-xvid-avi-file-[SOLVED]
Apparently vhelp solved his problem, but I can't find any trace of his utility on the site.

I'm looking at some older avi's that I encoded, and wondering which cqm's I used, as some of the files seem better in quality that what I can produce now (I know, I know, I should have made note of it back then ...). I think I've done a relatively thorough search of both the VideoHelp site and Google in general, but so far have come up empty.

If vhelp had developed a utility that could do this, then I'm "assuming" it can be done. If anyone knows of a similar utility to what vhelp was developing, or even a quick and dirty way of extracting the matrix from an avi, please let me know ... thanks!

[El Heggunte]

Very-good post

vhelp did act selfishly by not sharing his application ,
therefore he should be chastised accordingly.

[rickydavao]

I do hope that vhelp stumbles across this thread, as his application looks quite useful. I hesitate to pm him directly, however, either about his app or this thread, as I don;t want to appear "pushy" ... although his help would be greatly appreciated

P.S. @El Heggunte ... thank-you for your kind words re: my post. If VideoHelp has taught me anything, it's how to write a proper (1st) post. I love this site!

[vhelp]

ok, so do you want the short answer or the long ?

[rickydavao]

Hey, vhelp, thanks for replying

Ooh, that's a loaded question ... as in if there's a choice, it seems that neither may be particularly good.

Short, then long ....?

Pretty please?

[vhelp]

short answer: the utility is not complete, still have some features i want to fix/add, and the matrice (decoded) methods are broken in all the "external" tools that i was using through the matrice editor utility.

i know i've mentioned this before, but.. mediainfo and mpeg4modifier give you matrices, but they both get it wrong. you can't rely on them, though once in a while they would get it correct.

mpeg4modifier gives you the values in a matrix format, in an 8x8 grid, but its not copy'able, the last time i tried. and it gets it wrong most of the time.

mediainfo: you should be able to make a dos batch and have mediainfo pull the info for you, but you've been worned!
ok then, so if you do go through mediainfo, you will have to deocde the hex values into decimal since the output is in one long string of hex value, (FF B0 A1:01 AB FF), inter on the left, and intra on the right, though it may have changed since the last time i used it. it is the method i still use in the matrice editor utility since i did not strip it out.

one last try: i found one more (matrice decoding) resource that i want to test. if that goes well, i can release the utility.

and as to el heggunte's comment.., yes, i did, and i still selfishly use it since i still encode to xvid, much quicker and easier to encode to, and play in anything.

i'm not sure i answer all your questions, otherwise just ask more. thank you for your interest in my matrice editor utility project.

[poisondeathray]

vhelp - do you have any sample xvid vids encoded with cqms where mpeg4modifier , avinaptic and/or mediainfo get it "wrong" or misreport ?

[El Heggunte]

PDR - according to MediaInfo's changelog
( https://www.videohelp.com/tools/MediaInfo/version-history#changelog ),

MPEG Video: Custom matrix detection was broken

until 2011-06-15, i.e., version 0.7.45

[rickydavao]

vhelp & poisondeathray ... thanks so much. I was aware of mpeg4modifier, but did not know that it could display the matrix used in the avi. Similarly, I had not heard of avinaptic at all until poisondeathray mentioned it, and it also does an excellent job of displaying just about every last detail, including the matrix, of an avi file. In the files that I've tried, both programs show identical results for the same avi file, so I'm assuming that they're getting it right. Also, the matrices that are extracted do match up with the matrix (xcm) files that I have on my system.

Again, thanks so much ... this was exactly what I was looking for

El Heggunte, still very interested in your program should you manage to get it working to your satisfaction ... looking forward to it!

[vhelp]

ricky, glad you have your solution.

avinaptic is good but doesn't offer command line features for custom matrix extraction. luckly, i had added a paste (with trim spacing) to outputs like the one in avinaptic i was able to copy/paste its output into matrix editor so i could compare it to mediainfo and registry. the only tool i could find to incorporate in meu was mediainfo.

until 2011-06-15, i.e., version 0.7.45

obviously, i was using older version(s) in my tests. i will look for the 0.7.45 version and see if it has been truely fixed. thanks for pointing that out. sheesh. where were you when i was pulling my hair out on this issue ? anyway. let me test this out.

[rickydavao]

@vhelp

Downloaded the latest version of MediaInfo just now ... I only really use the GUI, but you can see the matrix data if you check Advanced Mode in the Debug menu. My hex isn't very good, but comparing to mpeg4modifier, it looks like the values are correct ... except that it seems to be reading the values from the matrix diagonally starting from the upper left corner reading down to the bottom right corner of the matrix. Weird, but maybe that's how it's stored in the avi file?

Probably not much help, but just wanted to let you know.

[vhelp]

that was one example in my earlier issues with its matrix decode.

[El Heggunte]

@ rickydavao: when you say "El Heggunte", don't you mean vhelp

[rickydavao]

Oops, my bad ... fixed!

[vhelp]

i'm comparing to avinaptic's matrix decode, (it may be correct--still have to test) because mpeg4modifier and mediainfo are still incorrect.
if you compare mpeg4modifier to mediainfo's you'll get the same report. but i'm having trouble getting the correct dll version to load in the matrix editor utility. that's the trouble with these programming projects, after a long break, it just as long to re-aclimate to the last state of mind in them. oh well.. let me continiue testing things out.

[vhelp]

mediainfo v0.7.53.0 on my system. i don't have 0.7.45 anywhere.

sheesh, it seems mediainfo is still broken. i will search to see if there is a later version. maybe it was fixed in 0.7.45 only and then broke again. i will try and search for latest version and the old 0.7.45 version.

edit: thanks to videohelp for keeping older versions !!

[rickydavao]

Both the latest version and version 0.7.4.5 are on VideoHelp Or is there a version 0.7.45 (no decimal between the 4 and the 5)? Now I'm confused ...

Edit: 0.7.45 can be found here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mediainfo/files/binary/mediainfo/0.7.45/

The latest version (0.7.63) is what I just used, and lists the matrix in the diagonal pattern that I mentioned. As long as the values are correct, if you know the pattern, couldn't you reconstruct the proper matrix layout anyway?

[El Heggunte]

Over here, both MPEG4Modifier and Avinaptic have given the same results on a few test clips.
Also, Avinaptic can extract the CQMs even from MKV files

As for the problems with MediaInfo on vhelp's machine.... let's hope I'm wrong, but
it's not impossible that something else is interfering with MediaInfo and other programs
vhelp, is it true you're still using XP w/ Service Pack 2

[rickydavao]

Over here, both MPEG4Modifier and Avinaptic have given the same results on a few test clips.

Same here. Although the latest version of MediaInfo does still extract the matrix in an odd pattern, as I described above.

[vhelp]

yes, i'mstill using xp sp2. but i think i know what the cause is. not my machine but the way i am calling the dll because another piece of my project seems to be missing a module to compile (the one that compiles mediainfo with the mediainfo.dll and version, hardwired into the final tool) so i'm struggling to understand that part. its been a while since i originally built that part.

yes, i think the mpeg4modifier may be correct afterall since i just d/l'ed the latest version and tried it. but i only tested on one file. so it and avinaptic seem correct so far.

[vhelp]

noop! mediainfo.dll version 0.7.63.0 is still broken. i've tried so many. all are producing the same results. maybe the fix was meant w/respect to mpeg1/mpeg2 videos and not xvid avi's. but since i can only utilize mediainfo.dll only, the matrix editor utility is useless. i would just stick with mpeg4modifier or avinaptic instead. i'm throwing in the towel and moving on to other projects.

[El Heggunte]

No problemos, man.

Thanks a lot for your attention and sincerity.

[rickydavao]

What El Heggunte said goes for me too, vhelp. Sorry that we couldn't help fix your program.

Regardless, I am quite happy that the discussion led me to two programs that could do what I needed, namely mpeg4modifier and avinaptic. Saved me a lot of time and stress