AviSynth Filter Suggestions

[hech54]

I'm thinking of diving into the AviSynth pool. I know I have AviSynth on this computer but have never used it. I'm guessing I can add do this in VirtualDub?.....and see the AviSynth filters affects in VirtualDub?
Anyway....what you you guys do with this footage?
https://mega.co.nz/#!IExWmRqT!Z1mE7kVJE4GphKJdRv027w94WhV89zKHqOXlgUlTIoQ
I'm sure I'd like to brighten it a bit at least(which I can do already with VDub filters) but I'd like to get some die-hard AviSynther's opinions for this video.
My end result will be MPEG2 with PCM audio, hopefully frameserved from VDub to MainConcept(?)

[manono]

I'm guessing I can add do this in VirtualDub?

It's not a codec so you don't just 'add' it as you would XviD or similar. You create scripts that open as any other video (File->Open Video File), which then frameserves the video into VDub. Yes, you'll see the results of your filtering in both panes of VDub (no before and after as when using VDub filters). You can filter the video to your heart's content in the script, although I don't see any need to 'brighten' up your video.

My end result will be MPEG2 with PCM audio, hopefully frameserved from VDub to MainConcept(?)

I've never used MainConcept, but after filtering it the way you want you should be able to open the script directly in MainConcept, just the way one opens scripts in CCE or HCEnc, the MPEG2 encoders with which I'm most familiar. That is, there shouldn't be any need to frameserve out of VDub.

[Cornucopia]

Let us know in more detail what you intend to be your program flow and we can help give pointers for streamlining or improved alternate options...

Scott

[sanlyn]

Anyway....what you you guys do with this footage?
https://mega.co.nz/#!IExWmRqT!Z1mE7kVJE4GphKJdRv027w94WhV89zKHqOXlgUlTIoQ
I'm sure I'd like to brighten it a bit at least(which I can do already with VDub filters) but I'd like to get some die-hard AviSynther's opinions for this video.

Well....I don't know how certain you are about a run thru on the sample avi, but you're here to learn up on this stuff, right? So...it displays a few few commonly seen errors. No, you don't want to brighten it. The brightest RGB value that video displays is RGB 255; your brights have previously exceeded that figure, to the point of being fried into bloom and flare with no high-level detail. You don't want to darken it, either. RGB 0 is the darkest color video can display; in several areas some of the darks went sub-zero a long time ago and got destroyed.

But anyone can learn to avoid these pitfalls, it's not difficult. At this point there's not much Avisynth could do; the vid has gone through a premature YUV->RGB conversion and a bad deinterlace, neither of which can be repaired. You'd have to go back to the original capture or recording -- which we hope you still have.

My end result will be MPEG2 with PCM audio, hopefully frameserved from VDub to MainConcept(?)

Not sure what you would do with an MPEG by taking it to MainConcpt.

Anyway, good luck. It would be more profitable to submit a chunk of video that hasn't been processed, and in its original colorspace.

[hech54]

I've tried several times over the past few years to get my head around the scripting/AviSynth process with absolutely ZERO luck.
I've run this video through both my Panasonic and Philips/JVC VCRs and the result (to my eyes) is exactly the same. The tape is what it is. I know I have captured highly superior VHS examples than this one.....but as far as I know this VHS tape(which is factory produced, although badly obviously) is one of the only ones I've ever come across that has this music video completely CLEAN - no logos, no artist text.
If I'm capturing to AVI.....I'm using DScaler(as I did with this video clip). I captured ONCE with VDub, but was never able to get VDub to recognize my Hauppauge USB-Live2 again.
I have:
Hauppauge USB-Live2
Hauppauge PVR-350
Medion MD81335(LG RH100 clone) DVD Recorder

Philips/JVC clone VR-1100(S-VHS) VCR
Panasonic NV-HD620 VCR

My end result will be MPEG2 with PCM audio for distribution to other people who are also looking for a "Clean" version of this music video.
It's bad enough many of these dummies insist on VOB files thinking they are in some way superior to the original MPEG2 file that they were
created from.....but of course I will save the original capture AND experiment with other stuff like H264 for myself.

I've already made a version of this video, changed out the crappy mono audio with audio from the CD(including slightly changing the playback rate of the audio to match the video) that looks nice to me and many others....I was just thinking of making it look a little better. If you don't think that is possible I'll move on. Simple as that.

[sanlyn]

I get what you're saying. If this is a retail tape that's incorrectly deinterlaced and has screwed up levels and chroma to begin with, the best you can do is capture using brightness and contrast controls that help keep incoming values within a manageable range. If you crush and clip values during capture, there's nothing you can do about it later. Likewise, if the tape looks that way to begin with, it's pretty much a done deal. I had a few bad tape transfers myself, and finally just gave up on certain defects. Given lab-quality equipment one has a better chance, but who can afford to build their own Industrial Light & Magic setup?

Also, if you deinterlaced during capture it was the wrong approach. The tape appears to be progressive source with hard-telecine. IVTC in Avisynth could fix a lot of that. If improper deinterlace is in the tape itself, that's a done deal as well.

[jagabo]

Go back and capture and compress as YUY2 (or other YUV 4:2:2 color subsampling). Turn off any/all noise reduction filters in the VHS deck and capture chain. Use a line TBC if possible.

The sample I saw wasn't deinterlaced though it looks like it went through a poor NTSC/PAL conversion.

[hech54]

Also this is a distinctly "American" artist (Christopher Cross), and the tape is a PAL European Warner Brothers promo tape from 1979 - 1980. That certainly cannot not do much justice to the original. The "PAL country" artist's videos on this tape of course look VERY nice so I believe that once again tells me something.
To me the visual "flow" of the video is OK. There is no herky-jerky playback or funny shadow-like things during movement like in that video clip I asked for help with a few months ago.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/352237-Studdering-Surging-MPEG-Video-Interlacing-Problem
Luckily I found a promo tape that contained that video a month or so ago and I'm a happy camper.

I downloaded another version of VirtualDub that recognizes my Hauppauge USB-Live2, I hope I can remember what settings to mess with to get a good capture without dropping frames. There was a post here YEARS ago that I used as a guide but I can't find the damn thing.
If not I will make sure that all of DScaler's deinterlacing options are turned off(?).

[hech54]

The sample I saw wasn't deinterlaced though it looks like it went through a poor NTSC/PAL conversion.

Bingo.

[hech54]

ED: Oops, wait a minute. Are you using a DVD recorder for tape-to-digital?

Not for that sample I uploaded....no. That was a capture with DScaler to HuffyUV.

[sanlyn]

Oh. OK, then jagabo's suggestion for getting an unprocessed sample is the way to go.

@jagabo, yeah, I keep forgetting the source is PAL.

[hech54]

Is this what you are looking for?
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 198 MiB
Duration : 10s 0ms
Overall bit rate : 166 Mbps
Writing library : VirtualDub build 29963/release

Video
ID : 0
Format : YUV
Codec ID : YUY2
Codec ID/Info : YUV 4:2:2 as for UYVY but with different component ordering within the u_int32 macropixel
Duration : 10s 0ms
Bit rate : 166 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 5:4
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 16.000
Stream size : 198 MiB (100%)

[jagabo]

Yes, that looks right.

[sanlyn]

It's an AVI using a YUY2-like colorspace. I'm not intimately familiar with the u_int32 message, and maybe someone might help, but that colorspace variation would use a BT709 hi-def matrix. That may be why the vid looks over saturated. Standard def uses BT601. I'd have to lookup on getting from YUY2/BT709 back to YUY2/Bt601 -- Avisynth has a plugin that helps with that. Or another member might have more experience with that problem. I'll look it up.

It appears to be progressive, as jagabo noted, with a faulty PAL conversion.

[jagabo]

I'm not intimately familiar with the u_int32 message

That just means the four bytes (32 bits) are ordered differently than YUY2 -- UYVY rather than YUYV. Otherwise they're exactly the same.

[sanlyn]

Thanks, jagabo. Understood. So I'm thinking that at some point, Avisynth plugins might want the "usual" YUY2 ordering for YUY2 or YV12 plugins. I'd use ColorMatrix (I hope) to set that right, but that's for later. So to get a sample, would cutting in VirtualDub using "direct stream copy" have any problem with that colorspace? It looks like uncompressed AVI.

[jagabo]

So I'm thinking that at some point, Avisynth plugins might want the "usual" YUY2 ordering for YUY2

It will come out of the decoder in the requested order. Ie, conversion from UYVY to YUYV will be automatic.

[hech54]

Should I be able to CAPTURE in Color space : YUV ?
I re-captured (with DScaler) and turned EVERYTHING off. All interlacing, deinterlacing-type of filters OFF



and selected Video(greedy low motion)

Here are the compression settings:


After capture....the video shows up in Virtualdub as RGB. I changed the input and output to this:

....did my 10 second sample....and that is my MediaInfo text above.

[hech54]

Oh and the second attempt of captured video looks VERY nice.

[sanlyn]

Should I be able to CAPTURE in Color space : YUV ?
I re-captured (with DScaler) and turned EVERYTHING off. All interlacing, deinterlacing-type of filters OFF

Cool. That's the better way.

I didn't see mention of huffyuv in the MediaInfo (maybe I just missed it). To cut a piece of this AVI, say about 10 seconds, open the AVI in VirtualDub. Make your cut using the edit icons at the bottom of the VirtualDub window. Then, to prevent a colorspace mod, go to the top menu and click "Video..." -> "direct stream copy". You can make the file a little smaller by clicking "Audio..." -> "no audio" if you wish. Then Save as AVI. 10 seconds of huffyuv should be less than 100 MB, but larger if it's uncompressed.

[hech54]

So a HuffyUV 10 second sample(like the first sample) is OK....even though it shows up as colorspace RGB?

[sanlyn]

If you use direct stream copy, the resulting colorspace will be the same as the source colorspace.

[vhelp]

yeah, your vcr seems like a good player to me too. the only thing i would change is the settings to bring out all the detail (grain/noise) as possible, don't let your vcr make that decision for you, just turn those features off, capture it raw and decide for yourself if you need any filter cleanup. but if your use a high bitrate in your final encode, you may not need the filtering, espcially since the content is music video, with a lot of fast motion and scene changes throughout. i would recommend h264 and a 4k or higher bitrate.

now, i know you said dest is dvd, but the de-interlaced versions i tried (not the QTMC vers, i can't get working on my sys) looked pretty good to me. and since i have left mpeg2/dvd a long time ago, i prefer to deinterlace interlace material. as for your clip, i went 25 and 50, though the 50 was a bit better but required more bitrate. theres always the chance that you will dist as h264 or xvid format to some friends. and if film, will be ivtc.

you can upload a much longer clip if you encode it with vp6 or later codec. its slow but can do a good job of lossless or near lossless with the right settings. ie, i encoded your 86mb clip to 25mb.

i've used dscaler before and quit using it because of dropped frames. i prefer virtualdub. there are seveal versions. and depending on your capture card, one works better than the other, or recignises your card than the other. so it can be a matter of trial and error.

hopefully, you will get a better setup going in your next recapture and post newer, longer clips.

[jagabo]

MediaInfo's report of RGB for Huffyuv encoded video is wrong (or at least, it will depend on what you have Huffyuv set to output -- don't enable the "always suggest RGB output" option). Just be sure you feed Huffyuv YUY2 (or UYVY).

[hech54]

Well....here goes nothing:
https://mega.co.nz/#!4AxDXaiA!RQRCV2lGpDgjWFkgo8SzJkroFgF1dRF8XrEN7Kms9VY

[sanlyn]

Thanks for that. Wow. That's a fairly fried video, but more workable than the first sample. More on this later, but a couple of quickie notes: When you see an overly bright video coming into your capture, it's best not to start by lowering the brightness control. In most cap software filters, brightness controls the black levels (yeah, I know. Doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?). While brightness does have effect on the high end, most of its action is in the dark spectrum. The bright end is controlled more directly by the contrast filter (again, not what you'd expect). Both controls affect each other, so if you want to set levels during capture to prevenet crushing blacks and blowing out brights, you have to fiddle a bit. In fact if there's a gamma filter (controls the middle, mostly), that helps too. I wouldn't try to use color filters or denoisers -- unless you're using shop-grade gear, color and denoisers in most capture filters are far less sophisticated than those in something like Avisynth. Besides, with VHS the color balance will change again and again anyway.

[hech54]

I captured that all at "default". I played with brightness/contrast one time during a capture but for the life of me could not enable a preview of any kind so I went back to defaults and recaptured. My guesswork was BAD.

[sanlyn]

Don't worry. I think that capture problem gives everyone fits at first.

[jagabo]

If you capture in VirtualDub you can enable the histotram display while capturing. That will give you an idea of the levels. You might be able to use GraphStudio to manipulate the proc amp controls while capturing in another program. The best option, is to use GraphStudio to build a capture graph, then DirectShowSource() in AviSynth, followed by VideoScope() or Histogram(), then open that AVS script in VirtualDub. That will give you a realtime levels monitor. Then use GraphStudio to manipulate the proc amp controls. The latter options don't work with all capture devices.

[sanlyn]

Well....here goes nothing:
https://mega.co.nz/#!4AxDXaiA!RQRCV2lGpDgjWFkgo8SzJkroFgF1dRF8XrEN7Kms9VY

Well, no, it was definitely something, and thanks. The AVI was RGB (!), but at least it was a fighting chance to try and see what the original looked like, long, long, long ago. This vid has been around the block and back a few times -- there's not a stitch of fine detail left. The trial run .mkv below addressed a few things, mostly edge noise, but didn't try to fix everything because it's sort of a mess and could take days.

Did manage to get luma and color within a range that could be contained in a video designed for Earthlings. Probably lost a few extreme values in RGB, but I lived dangerously and converted back to YV12. Each camera shot has a different color balance (changing lights, etc.,) but I suspect that someone meddled with the original color grading, or else it was screwy to begin with. Well, one can try. I don't think this vid is anywhere near 4:3 anymore. I figure it can take one more re-encode, and it's Banding City from there on. Played smoothly in MPC-BE. Looks like pooh-pooh in VLC.

vidpath="E:\forum\hech54\"
AviSource(vidpath+"second sample.avi")
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
Crop(38,0,-20,-16)
SmoothLevels(3,0.8,255,14,255,chroma=200,limiter=2,tvrange=true)
ColoryUV(cont_y=10,gain_y=-20,off_y=1)
ColorYUV(cont_v=-100,off_v=-3)
ColorYUV(cont_u=-100,off_u=-3)
AddBorders(30,8,28,8)
SmoothTweak(Saturation=1.4)

MCTemporalDenoise(settings="low",sigma=4,AA=true,edgeclean=true,enhance=true,interlaced=true)
mergechroma(awarpsharp2(depth=30, type=1, blur=1, chroma=4))
return last