Question about Swedish bluray and ripping and playback for the US

[yoda313]

Ok allow me to be a bit geeky here - the group Roxette will finally be releasing a concert on bluray and dvd later this year. I can't preorder it yet but I'll get it as soon as I can.

I am in the US and I have a wdtv gen 1, a ps3 and a current year sony standalone bluray player. All are ntsc US models.

What is the most successful way to rip and playback a swedish a bluray disc for US use?

If it is too complex I may just sacrifice quality and order the dvd instead. I can easily rip it and burn to disc and playback pal region free discs on my xbox 360 a-ok.

I know for bluray it should all be 1080p worldwide right? There won't be any resolution differences like dvd has correct?

Should I be able to simply rip the disc and play it back as it is once its ripped?

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Currently I rip the whole bluray (US discs) and use eacto to convert dts to ac3 and then mux it to a m2ts file with tsmuxer and I can play it just fine on my wdtv or my new sony bluray player.

Will I be able to do the same thing with a swedish disc?

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Also I am sure other regions will get this disc would it be easier for me to get it from a different region than directly from Sweden?

Edit - I do realize that I could convert the ripped bluray folder to a mkv file and playback that way. However I have an old 2.7ghz dual core pc and that will take a long time if I were to go to 1080p h264. I'd prefer to leave it as it is without reconverting - I do have two 2tb harddrives I can use for playback.

[smrpix]

Your current method should work fine for the WDTV. Can't speak for the others. I suspect the Sony BR won't.

1080 is "universal" but frame rates vary. Leave it alone when you rip and Let the WDTV do the conversion on playback.

[yoda313]

Your current method should work fine for the WDTV. Can't speak for the others. I suspect the Sony BR won't.

Thanks about the wdtv. Actually my ripped blurays work perfectly on both the wdtv and the sony - the same file on both work ok.

1080 is "universal" but frame rates vary. Leave it alone when you rip and Let the WDTV do the conversion on playback.

I forgot about the frame rates. THanks for confirming the resolution though. Its that 50vs60 stuff in light of the sd 25vs 30 right?

Edit - Oh I know I can't use my ps3 for this method unless i were to buy a bluray burner which I don't plan on doing - my drives are ntfs and I don't want to reformat to fat32 for the ps3 and do file splitting and such.

[smrpix]

Yes, the 30/60 vs 25/50 is why I suspect the Sony BR might reject it. But there's no harm in trying.

[yoda313]

Yes, the 30/60 vs 25/50 is why I suspect the Sony BR might reject it. But there's no harm in trying.

Thanks again for the confirmation.

I suppose I could hunt online for some samples and test it out. Got any links for 1080p 50 material?

Worse comes to worse I could simply move my wdtv into the other room should I want to watch it there.

Actually I do have some pal dvds I could rip and test - though with the framesize issue that is one more difference that won't help in determining the bluray issue I'm really after.

In the end this might actually be a moot point.

Lots of movies these days have a bluray/dvd combo pack. I don't know if this concert release will also do the same thing. I could end up with the dvd version in one purchase. Then I could simply rip it to region free and watch on my xbox 360. But I'd still like to do the hd bluray on as many units as possible.

Again its not even available for preorder yet so I'm just going to have to wait.

But thanks for some early questions I had before I bought it.

[jman98]

Most BluRays have the movie as 1920x1080p 24 fps. If this Swedish BluRay does, then rip and reburn will be fine. However, interlaced video is allowed and interlaced frame rates for Sweden would be 25 fps. Some BluRay players in North America may dislike this frame rate and refuse to play such a rip, even without a region code. You could always try to use BDRebuilder to get it back to 24 fps progressive in such a case.

Note that extras are very likely "PALish" with frame rates of 25 fps, so you should not expect those to play unless you know you have a converting BluRay player. Sony players are NOT converting players.

Finally, if you want to try to find the BluRay somewhere else, Hong Kong and Japan are in the same BluRay region as the USA and they will use NTSC compatibile frame rates on their BluRay discs. Yes, Hong Kong is technically a PAL place, but their DVDs and BluRays are all NTSC frame rates. I recommend http://www.yesasia.com as a reliable source for Asian BluRays.

[yoda313]

Most BluRays have the movie as 1920x1080p 24 fps. If this Swedish BluRay does, then rip and reburn will be fine. However, interlaced video is allowed and interlaced frame rates for Sweden would be 25 fps. Some BluRay players in North America may dislike this frame rate and refuse to play such a rip, even without a region code. You could always try to use BDRebuilder to get it back to 24 fps progressive in such a case.

Note that extras are very likely "PALish" with frame rates of 25 fps, so you should not expect those to play unless you know you have a converting BluRay player. Sony players are NOT converting players.

Thanks for the info.

The only other bonus material I'm aware of for this release will be a documentary. I suspect - well hope really - that this will be treated as a "main video" and given the same quality and presentation as the concert itself. It shouldn't be a sd pal on a bluray.

Finally, if you want to try to find the BluRay somewhere else, Hong Kong and Japan are in the same BluRay region as the USA and they will use NTSC compatibile frame rates on their BluRay discs. Yes, Hong Kong is technically a PAL place, but their DVDs and BluRays are all NTSC frame rates. I recommend http://www.yesasia.com as a reliable source for Asian BluRays.

That is a very good thing to know. Thanks. I knew that Japan was ntsc for dvd I didn't know if that carried over into region coding for bluray or not.

SO basically if I bought a Japanese bluray and popped it in either my ps3 or the sony bluray player it would work as if it were a US bought disc?

Thanks everyone.

[DB83]

Oh. Not that sort of 'Swedish' blu then.

I kinda liked Roxette. Did not realise they were still around. Got the early performance VHS and the promo compilation DVD.

This new one does seems to be delayed tho.

[johns0]

Rip and merge to mkv,my sony bdp-s380 plays 25 and 50fps mkv with no issues but won't play blu-ray authored pal.

[jman98]

SO basically if I bought a Japanese bluray and popped it in either my ps3 or the sony bluray player it would work as if it were a US bought disc?

Thanks everyone.

Yes. But given how this is Sony we're talking about, I'm not willing to give you a 100% guarantee here. No other manufacturer of a North American BluRay player would refuse to play a Japanese BluRay since the discs are in the same region as the USA and Canada. Note that Japan is in a different region for DVD from North America though. You shouldn't have any problems with Sony, but again, this is Sony.

[yoda313]

Thanks jman98. And everyone else for posting. I'll just have to wait for the release and post my findings once I get the disc. I will shoot for the bluray though At the very least I should be able to watch it on my pc which does have a bluray rom drive on it

[yoda313]

Does anyone have a place I could get sample clips of high def 50 fps footage?

I have successfully tested a ripped pal dvd remuxed into a m2ts file. The sony bluray player played it perfectly. THere weren't any synch issues that I could tell and the video looked good. So at least an sd pal source ripped to and muxed to a file will work on my sony bluray player.

Fyi these did not:

A ripped and burnt pal disc (ripped to region free of course)
A pressed pal disc (I'm nearly 100% sure its region free)

So it bombed on both disc types but did play a m2ts file that I muxed from the ripped disc. So I"m half way there. If i can confirm it will play the high def equivalent of pal I am all set.

Thanks.

Edit - after a few minutes on google I'm only getting youtube uploads. I want an actual hd file to download be it 720 or 1080 doesn't matter though I'd prefer a 1080.

All I need is a minute clip or so. Actually I'd prefer a video of somebody talking or some sound cues so I could make sure there is good audio synch on playback. Thanks.

[DB83]

You know it is not un-common for music related disks to be released as NTSC since we Europeans have no issues with these.

A recent example is The Beatles - Magical Mystery Tour

[yoda313]

You know it is not un-common for music related disks to be released as NTSC since we Europeans have no issues with these.

A recent example is The Beatles - Magical Mystery Tour

My only problem is popularity. I just don't know if Roxette has enough pull to get a multiregion release.

But as has been mentioned if it is released in Japan I could order that version and I SHOULD be ok.

But if anyone has a hd 50 clip I can test than I'll know for sure if I can do a bluray or not.

Thanks.

[DB83]

I was actually thinking of the BD equivilent of 'region-free'. Then one size fits all.

[jman98]

Sony players of every kind sold in the USA and Canada, including the PS3, are well known for refusing to play PAL DVDs. I'm a little surprised your player(s) didn't barf on the m2ts file. That's interesting. And it proves that once again, Sony is being a dick for the sake of being a dick if they can play PALish m2ts files without a hitch but refusing to play PAL DVDs, even if region free.

1080i/p 50 fps video is invalid for BluRay anyway. Commercial BluRays almost never use 720p footage except for extras, so I suppose you could maybe find someone to get you some 720p 50 fps footage that way.

[yoda313]

I'm a little surprised your player(s) didn't barf on the m2ts file. That's interesting. And it proves that once again, Sony is being a dick for the sake of being a dick if they can play PALish m2ts files without a hitch but refusing to play PAL DVDs, even if region free.

Maybe somebody at sony is doing some backdoor hacking ???? Maybe they want to use it for their own purposes and snuck the code into it? I mean for file playback not disc playback which is a bit of a bummer. Anyway I'm glad it does as i have two devices that will do pal dvd file playback - the wdtv and the sony bluray player.

1080i/p 50 fps video is invalid for BluRay anyway. Commercial BluRays almost never use 720p footage except for extras, so I suppose you could maybe find someone to get you some 720p 50 fps footage that way.

So what would i be ripping from the bluray then? Thats what I'm looking to test.

[yoda313]

Ok I'm not exactly sure what format the bluray will be in (whether its vc1 or avc or mpeg2) but I have found out my bluray player will in fact play 1080p 25fps material. I found two video clips in that mode and it seemed to play just fine.

Here is the first file:

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 23s 0ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 8 396 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.162
Stream size : 23.8 MiB (93%)
Writing library : x264 core 114 r1924 08d04a4
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=8396 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=25000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / nal_hrd=vbr / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00


And here is the second file:

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 2mn 28s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 8 313 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.160
Stream size : 149 MiB (93%)
Writing library : x264 core 77 r1292kGIT e381f6d
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=8313 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=25000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00


These were both m2ts files. I don't know if they were straight from a bluray disc or not. However if you look at the writing library it says x264 core so it probably was reencoded.

But the fact of the matter is it will play sd and hd files at 25fps.

now all I need is a hd 50fps file to cover all the angles.

What are European blurays encoded to? Is it 1920x1080 at 25fps? If it is then I am all set.

[johns0]

Your sony blu-ray player will play video that are 25fps but will not play them if they are authored to blu-ray 25 fps so it will be a waste of a disc,as i already said in the post its better to just remux the videos to mkv with sub and chapter.

[yoda313]

@johns0 - thanks.

Actually I don't have a bluray burner so that was never a consideration. This is strictly for file playback.

And the reason for doing m2ts is laziness on my part mostly. I do the muxing with tsmuxer which only has a m2ts or ts output option for file use. If it had a mkv option I'd use that. And since my wdtv and bluray player will read m2ts files I don't see a need to remux to mkv. Edit - I do see your point about subs and chapters but I don't think I'll need that for this instance.

Your sony blu-ray player will play video that are 25fps

Thanks. I just wanted to confirm for my own use and I have successfully done so. I do appreciate it.

Are there any other frame rates I need to test for? If I can get any hd 50fps I'd appreciate the links to do a final testing.

[johns0]

The sony will play 50fps as long as the file has no issues such as weird encoding specs,in fact it will play other fps such as 15,20.

[Brad]

Your two samples are 1080p25 which doesn't reflect the Blu-ray format: for 1080 lines it only allows 1080p23.976, 1080p24, 1080i25, 1080i29.97.

A European Blu-ray can be any of those formats. Technically so could a North American Blu-ray but it would be suicide to release 1080i25 there since no player is required to support it anywhere.

[johns0]

yoda313 already said that he wasn't using blu-ray burning so what you are saying doesn't apply,he's just gonna play video files.

I already encoded a mkv file to 60 fps at 720p and it played on my sony blu-ray player.

[Brad]

How does it not apply? He asked which format the Blu-ray would likely be in so he could test that format. He hasn't tested 1080i25.

[yoda313]

1080p23.976, 1080p24, 1080i25, 1080i29.97.

Thanks.

Why isn't 1080p25 part of the specs???

I'd have to check my bluray rips that I can play from my US discs I've ripped in whole (ie no conversion straight video copy). I don't know if those are 1080p24 or 23.976.

So I still have some more samples to grab to be 100% certain for my own piece of mind.

60 fps at 720p

Thanks for the input. I have a different model - the s1100 (the wired model thats 90.00 or so new for this years model).

I would hope it has all the capabilities yours has but I'm looking to verify my own model.

I do appreciate the advice and insight everyone And as soon the concert is ready for preorders I'll send mine in. I'll probably shoot for the bluray/dvd combo package just to make sure I can play everything everywhere Heck I'll probably get hosed on the shipping whats a few more bucks for the luxo package???

[johns0]

Yours is a newer model so it will play the files my sony bdp-s380 can play,i tested a 1080p25fps and 1080p60fps and they both play ok.

[yoda313]

Yours is a newer model so it will play the files my sony bdp-s380 can play,i tested a 1080p25fps and 1080p60fps and they both play ok.

Sounds good. Thanks.

[johns0]

How does it not apply? He asked which format the Blu-ray would likely be in so he could test that format. He hasn't tested 1080i25.

Your two samples are 1080p25 which doesn't reflect the Blu-ray format.

yoda313 isn't going burn the samples so the blu-ray spec doesn't apply since its not going to be authored and burned.

[Brad]

???

His goal is to play a video FROM a Blu-ray. That Blu-ray source obviously has to follow the specs, therefore the specs (for frame rate) apply fully.

[jman98]

Why isn't 1080p25 part of the specs???

24 fps is the ideal frame rate. Everything else is a deviation supported because of limitations. So since 1080p24fps is supported, there's no logical reason to support 1080p25 or 1080p30 in BluRay. No one would deliberately broadcast in 1080p25fps if given the ability to do 24fps. Remember, 25fps speeds up the audio and video. The reason that 29.97fps doesn't speed up the audio and video is complicated.

It's a big simplification, but basically 1080i29.97 and 1080i25 were put in the spec because it was believed at the time that it would take years before the technology would exist to do broadcasts at progressive frame rates at 1080. This belief ended up being very shortsighted and wrong. 720p supports double the old NTSC and PAL frame rates because it was believed that the higher frame rate would make for smoother motion and 720 was as big a resolution as it was believed the technology could handle with the higher frame rate.