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  1. I see. That makes sense. I take it there isn't any readily available method of asking a plugin to just interpolate X even / odd field (if there would be a method of arbitrarily defining this such as counting from the top) and disregard altering the rest, and inject the result. That way I could just call that function in a second pass over every frame that needs it. Though if that existed in such an easy way, it'd probably already be documented...somewhere.

    I didn't know that bouncing was a normal thing though, so this is good to know.
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  2. You could overlay the top line with picture information onto the frame, shift up by one scanline. Ie, if line 4 is black, shift line 5 up to cover it. That's no perfect but maybe a less objectionable than the bob bounce.
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  3. Edit: Removed what I wrote as even in the result I uploaded earlier I see that slight bobbing. I wouldn't worry about it myself. I consider that to be very minor.
    Last edited by manono; 8th Jul 2013 at 23:57.
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  4. Just a matter of curiosity, if maybe there's a better approach to this. There are places I'll frequently run into segments that break the telecine pattern by too large a margin (usually at a scene change leaving an orphaned field between the two). But I still have to drop a frame in that 5 frame cycle, making it fall to a matter of dropping the one that won't show any, or the least skips in motion.

    I tend to be a perfectionist about these things. I'm not certain if TDecimate's mkv timecodes function would suffice for this, but it doesn't seem like fieldhint's override files works with TFM either way.

    Is there any other approach for this to get around dropping these frames?

    As a sidenote. I thought about just rendering that series of frames separately and splicing it with the other sections, but I can't quite wrap my mind around what frame rate I'd have that portion run at, at that point. I'd think it'd simply be 23.976 + 1 more frame in that interval, making it 24.976. But I suppose that just doesn't seem to account for the fractional value that's there to begin with, hence the uncertainty. Though I guess frame rate is really just a simplified way of expressing the timestamps of any given frames in the interval of one second, so it does make sense from that angle.
    Last edited by Acetyl; 7th Aug 2013 at 14:04.
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  5. Originally Posted by Acetyl View Post
    Just a matter of curiosity, if maybe there's a better approach to this. There are places I'll frequently run into segments that break the telecine pattern by too large a margin (usually at a scene change leaving an orphaned field between the two). But I still have to drop a frame in that 5 frame cycle, making it fall to a matter of dropping the one that won't show any, or the least skips in motion.

    I tend to be a perfectionist about these things. I'm not certain if TDecimate's mkv timecodes function would suffice for this, but it doesn't seem like fieldhint's override files works with TFM either way.

    Is there any other approach for this to get around dropping these frames?
    You would have to specify a manual overrides file if you can't adjust the other settings to keep or drop what you want



    As a sidenote. I thought about just rendering that series of frames separately and splicing it with the other sections, but I can't quite wrap my mind around what frame rate I'd have that portion run at, at that point. I'd think it'd simply be 23.976 + 1 more frame in that interval, making it 24.976. But I suppose that just doesn't seem to account for the fractional value that's there to begin with, hence the uncertainty. Though I guess frame rate is really just a simplified way of expressing the timestamps of any given frames in the interval of one second, so it does make sense from that angle.
    That math would only be true if that segment was 1 second long...

    If you're doing this manually it's usually easier to use v1 timecodes, where only the deviations or change in frame rate over a certain frame range is expressed, otherwise fps is assumed to be a base value
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  6. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    You would have to specify a manual overrides file if you can't adjust the other settings to keep or drop what you want
    That's what I'm doing, it still seems to drop frames that aren't in the 5 frame cycle.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    That math would only be true if that segment was 1 second long...

    If you're doing this manually it's usually easier to use v1 timecodes, where only the deviations or change in frame rate over a certain frame range is expressed, otherwise fps is assumed to be a base value
    I'm using a v1 timecodes file for it anyway (the openings and endings) so it seemed like an appealing option. Would 24.976 for that segment (of 7 frames or so) generate the right frame timings?
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  7. Originally Posted by Acetyl View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    You would have to specify a manual overrides file if you can't adjust the other settings to keep or drop what you want
    That's what I'm doing, it still seems to drop frames that aren't in the 5 frame cycle.
    Ok, it's not something I do very frequently . Are you saying it's not paying attention to the overrides ?

    If nobody else chimes in, I would suggest asking for help at Doom9 forum. I know there are some people there that do this manual stuff overrides frequently, they would be the ones to ask

    You would probably have to post a sample, your script, and your overrides file

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    That math would only be true if that segment was 1 second long...

    If you're doing this manually it's usually easier to use v1 timecodes, where only the deviations or change in frame rate over a certain frame range is expressed, otherwise fps is assumed to be a base value
    I'm using a v1 timecodes file for it anyway (the openings and endings) so it seemed like an appealing option. Would 24.976 for that segment (of 7 frames or so) generate the right frame timings?
    That doesn't quite work out over 7 frames, but the only way to be sure is test it out

    If my math is right, I think you can figure it out by doing the fraction . e.g. lets say the base rate is 24000/1001 , the normal sequence is 7 frames, but you want to include 8 frames in that section .

    24000/1001 * 8/7 =~ 27.401
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  8. If you specify keeping a frame in an overrides file, one that would have been otherwise dropped, then a different frame will be dropped in that 5-frame cycle.

    Since you said this happens mostly at scene changes, then aren't the fields/frames being dropped at the scene changes themselves, so there's no jump or other obvious sign of missing frames?

    The best way to 'cover-up' missing frames is with the use of SmartDecimate as the IVTC, as I suggested earlier. In cases such as yours it has the ability to use a bobbed field to 'smooth-over' the movement.
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  9. Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Ok, it's not something I do very frequently . Are you saying it's not paying attention to the overrides ?

    If nobody else chimes in, I would suggest asking for help at Doom9 forum. I know there are some people there that do this manual stuff overrides frequently, they would be the ones to ask

    You would probably have to post a sample, your script, and your overrides file
    I see. It isn't ignoring the overrides file entirely, it'll just make a decision to drop 1 if I don't specify in a segment.

    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    That doesn't quite work out over 7 frames, but the only way to be sure is test it out

    If my math is right, I think you can figure it out by doing the fraction . e.g. lets say the base rate is 24000/1001 , the normal sequence is 7 frames, but you want to include 8 frames in that section .

    24000/1001 * 8/7 =~ 27.401
    Ah, that's interesting... with that equation, regardless of the respective values, it would never move above the original frame rate (in this case 30000/1001)... only in increments between the two. I'll have to try this.
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  10. Originally Posted by manono View Post
    If you specify keeping a frame in an overrides file, one that would have been otherwise dropped, then a different frame will be dropped in that 5-frame cycle.

    Since you said this happens mostly at scene changes, then aren't the fields/frames being dropped at the scene changes themselves, so there's no jump or other obvious sign of missing frames?

    The best way to 'cover-up' missing frames is with the use of SmartDecimate as the IVTC, as I suggested earlier. In cases such as yours it has the ability to use a bobbed field to 'smooth-over' the movement.
    They weren't always being dropped at scene changes, which is why I noticed it. There aren't any telling signs, but I wanted to keep the frames if possible.

    I'll have to look into smartdecimate some more.
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