Bitrate encoding equavilate to 1080 720 and SD 480

[AndreL]

After all my post on this forum I finally find what I've been looking for

900-1800kbps for a 480p (SD) encode - 3500-5500kbps for a 720p encode, and anywhere from 8000 to 15000kbps for 1080p.

Does any one disagree with this summary of encoding DVDs and Blu rays to these bit rates to achieve the wanted resolutions of DVD 720 and the ultiamte 1080p.

[aedipuss]

it might be easier for you to find a constant quality(cq) that you like and encode using it. no single bitrate is going to work for different source materials.

[AndreL]

But I heard using cq is sometimes a waste of space, cause for some scene the frame doesn't change much and using a high bitrate is not necessary

[sanlyn]

Again, it depends on your video. Fast motion, lots of detail, lots of noise, large flat areas and many gradients = higher bitrates. Don't know where you got your numbers, but they're too low for SD and 720, and the low end for 1080 is...well, low.

[johns0]

The bitrates looks ok for all of the resolutions,lower bitrates for slow movies and higher bitrates for fast action movies in each resolution setting.

[manono]

But I heard using cq is sometimes a waste of space, cause for some scene the frame doesn't change much and using a high bitrate is not necessary

You heard wrong. CQ is efficient variable bitrate encoding. You're referring to constant bitrate encoding where static frames may get too many bits and more complex scenes not enough. aedipuss is correct. As long as having a specific file size isn't important, encode for the quality you want. If using x264 that means choosing CRF. If for XviD, it means choosing a quantizer.

[johns0]

CQ is good if you are not worried about space but if you are going the re-encode movies to fit on a dvd or blu-ray then it's best to use 2 pass and a bitrate calculator to find what bitrate is needed to fit.

[sanlyn]

The bitrates looks ok for all of the resolutions,lower bitrates for slow movies and higher bitrates for fast action movies in each resolution setting.

But not everyone spends all their time watching distorted toons on a PC screen.

[jagabo]

Use constant quality encoding when you want to be assured of quality. Use bitrate based encoding when you want to be assured of file size.

[johns0]

The bitrates looks ok for all of the resolutions,lower bitrates for slow movies and higher bitrates for fast action movies in each resolution setting.

But not everyone spends all their time watching distorted toons on a PC screen.

Distorted toons on a pc screen?Doesn't have anything to do with bitrate arguments.Your going to tell me that 720p at 5mbps will give you poor quality?

[sanlyn]

It depends on the video. 5mbps might do for the static scenes. I've seen too many 720's and bigger encoded at low bitrates played on 40-plus inch and 60-inch tv's not to see the obvious difference with the same videos using higher bitrates. It was true for MPEG and its true for HD. If your standards are lower, go for it. Most people don't change encoder settings to suit specific video scenes anyway, they just encode entire videos in one clip.

[AndreL]

[QUOTE=sanlyn;2238160]Again, it depends on your video. Fast motion, lots of detail, lots of noise, large flat areas and many gradients = higher bitrates. Don't know where you got your numbers, but they're too low for SD and 720, and the low end for 1080 is...well, low.[/QUOTE

Thanks for your post sanlyn:

If the ranges are to low how would you rewrite them for 480 720 1020.
Instead of the standard high bit rates for better quality and low bitrate for file size.

this is where I fond the summary and I think the bit rates are for the x264 encoding

http://forums.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=53172

[manono]

It's already been suggested (three times now) that you use CRF encoding so you don't have to worry about figuring what bitrate to use. Just below the paragraph where you got the suggested bitrates is this paragraph:

If you need a faster encode (single pass) or want to hit a certain quality rather than a certain file size, you can use the "Constant Quality" slider instead of the above options. In this case, I suggest an "RF" value of somewhere between 17 and 23, with 17 giving you the largest file size and the highest quality and 23 giving you the lowest file size and quality. I use 18, personally.

I use 18 too, but if the sizes get too large for your tastes try 20 or 21. It's way faster, too, since you'll be running one pass instead of two.

If the ranges are to low how would you rewrite them for 480 720 1020.

sanlyn's point was that one-size-doesn't-fit-all. You can't choose the same bitrate for all kinds of videos. Well, you can but the quality will be all over the place.

[_Al_]

AndreL

Point is, x264 encoder CAN set quality even if it does not have eyes to see actual video using CQ or CRF.

Encoder algorithms know what to do using CQ to encode same quality as original - quantizer is zero, but file is huge and it makes no sense for us. If you raise that number all the way to say 50, quantizer is 50, encoding is unwatchable, but size is really small, again makes no sense for us, both are extremes, you just need to figure out what number works for you, somewhere in the middle. Those numbers right for you were suggested.

BUT, use CRF, not CQ, CQ is used simply how it works, but in real world use CRF, which is CQ but with AQ enabled (adaptive quantizer - different quantizer for parts of one frame) and encoder can even choose different quantizer where there is movement, because our brain doesn't need to see sharp and precise blur (encoder is cheating where there is movement and can raise quantizer or perhaps to lower it with detail demand where picture is not moving much, not sure)

[theewizard]

at the OP

too low all across the board for all resolutions

[jagabo]

too low all across the board for all resolutions

I think he'll get fair quality with the average movie with the bitrate ranges he listed. But there will be exceptions. And he won't know what those exceptions are until after he's encoded them. For videos that don't require as much bitrate as he specified he simply won't know unless he performs another encode at a lower bitrate. For videos that require more than he specified he will be able to see inadequate quality in his encoded video. It's just better to forget about bitrates unless you need a file of a specific size. Use constant quality encoding. Every video you encode will have the quality you specify (relative to the source) and just the right bitrate for that quality.

[Cornucopia]

And by constant quality, for h.264, I believe jagabo means CRF. As was mentioned earlier.

Scott

[jagabo]

And by constant quality, for h.264, I believe jagabo means CRF. As was mentioned earlier.

Yes.

[theewizard]

i don't see where 264 or ripping was mentioned by the OP
everything mentioned is DVD or blue ray

guess i misunderstood what he is talking about

After all my post on this forum I finally find what I've been looking for

900-1800kbps for a 480p (SD) encode - 3500-5500kbps for a 720p encode, and anywhere from 8000 to 15000kbps for 1080p.

Does any one disagree with this summary of encoding DVDs and Blu rays to these bit rates to achieve the wanted resolutions of DVD 720 and the ultiamte 1080p.

[jagabo]

i don't see where 264 or ripping was mentioned by the OP

In post 12 he mentions he was following a Handbrake/x264 guide.

[Hoser Rob]

I'm going to belabor the point here.

Unless you're going to write the file to some medium that necessitates a certain maximum size, there is just no good reason not to use constant quality/crf over target bit rate/file size.

Crf is almost as fast as 1 pass bit rate mode. One pass bit rate mode gives you terrible quality. But crf gives you as good quality as 2 pass bit rate. Some say better. I wouldn't argue.

Which means you can throw in some advanced settings ... which is where the real quality begins ... using crf and still take comparable time to 2 pass bit rate mode.

[AndreL]

Is hand break the only program that encodes with the "CRF" feature

[jagabo]

Almost every encoder that uses x264 allows for CRF encoding. Some call it RF or constant quality.