Using a camcorder with intent to edit.

[kreg]

The point of this thread is to try and concentrate some opinions on camcorder video formats and ways of editing. I have been searching threads trying to get thoughts sorted, but it seems scattered. My primary goal has been to buy a reasonable camcorder that captures 1080p/60p, and to be able to do simple edits to the video. Simple, such as clipping out scenes. Not things like editing effects or new audio.

As I research and test camcorders, I am starting to understand that a typical camcorder is primarily sold to the public with the intent to capture and enjoy playback. Not necessarily for editing as a sales pitch to the buyer. I am seeing this concept mostly with any camcorder marked AVCHD. As I understand, anything recording to meet AVCHD standards is going to give me a set of video streams in a nice arranged directory structure, all ready to be put on a disc, usb flash drive, usb hdd, or whatever you use to connect to a "AVCHD Player", such as a Sony PlayStation 3 via a burned disc or it's usb ports. I guess this idea is the same as recording to a VHS and playing it back on any VHS player, where AVCHD and VHS are interchangeable analogies. Sure the video of either a AVCHD or VHS can be "edited" but you have to figure out how on your own.

Would anyone disagree with this or state differently?



# Formats
With the above said, here is what my Panasonic HC-V700 can do:

When I record to AVCHD format, I get a series of .MTS container files (buried in the AVCHD directory layout) holding a .h264 video, and a nice encoded Dolby Digital 5.1 audio stream (faked using two L and R mics). I can record this way in 1080p/60p

When I record to iFrame format, I get a series of .MP4 container files (not buried in any directories) holding a .h264 video, and stereo PCM 2.0 audio. I can record this way in 720p/30p



#Editing
I am finding it challenging to do simple edits regardless of what camcorder I use, and with whichever format I set it to. Is there something more preferred in a camcorder's format to do editing, than what I described above?

Here is what I've achieved so far. I am recording in AVCHD 1080p/60p, deleting the directory structure and saving only the .MTS files, and clipping them with a program called "VideoReDo". It is allowing me to clip out specific frame ranges, and writes a new .TS file without re-encoding the .h264 video or DD audio. I then save the .MTS source files as original raw material to go back to someday.

Is this really the best approach? Can anyone enlighten me better?

[aedipuss]

Wtf. Why ask about cams when you already bought one. If you want to edit what your cam produces then buy an editing app like sony studio or pro. If you wanted to easily edit source material then you should have bought a pro cam not a consumer unit.

[kreg]

I buy and return often till I find something I want to stick with. This is just what I currently have. What formats do "pro cams" put out? How is it different? What is a common example model of such a cam?

[fvisagie]

One of the advantages of using a software editor as suggested by aedipuss is that you can continue using it when replacing your camera.

Cheers,
Francois

[kreg]

I'm not sure where the idea of not using software editing came from. I don't know of any other way to edit video other than using software. I'm asking what kind of data formats do pro camera's create as compared to consumer? Are they not also producing h264 video in some container? Editing AVCHD (.mts files with h264 and dd audio in a directory structure) is something I know how to do, but it just seems like i'm breaking them in order to edit them. What does a pro cam produce?

[julitomg]

My primary goal has been to buy a reasonable camcorder that captures 1080p/60p, and to be able to do simple edits to the video. Simple, such as clipping out scenes. Not things like editing effects or new audio.

Is this really the best approach? Can anyone enlighten me better?

The best approach is different for each one of us. If you only need to do simple cuts, then learning a bit more about editing AVCHD (or the potential issues associated to it) would be best rather tahn learning more complex technologies and techniques, specially if you already have the camcorder. There are some really kowledgeable experts here that can tell you a lot about formats like Sony´s XDCAM (in it´s differente flavors, XDCAM SD, XDCAM HD, XDCAM EX, XDCAM H422) or Panasonics DVCPRO (25, 50, HD), etc...
Why not try a NLE like Adobe Premiere Elements, Sony´s Movie Studio, Pinnacle´s STUDIO or Ciberlink´s PowerDirector? (you can download free trials and see if one of them fits your needs), most of them will import natively your .mts files without a problem. Note that you need a fairly powerful system (PC) to edit AVCDH files but you porbably know that already. If the editing isn´t that "smooth" you can always use an intermediate codec like Cineform´s NeoScene or look for a software that Panasonic used to provide its AVCCAM customers with, the Mainconcept AVCHD Transcoder. With it you could transcode your ACHD files to easier to edit DVCPRO HD files (provided that you keep the foldr structure generated by your cam), the transcoding itself is relatively fast but note that the resulting files will be much larger than the original ones (so you´d need to plan ahead according to your HDD available space.

[Brad]

There is always http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/hyperdeckshuttle/ if you value editing over time, drive space, and physical portability.