How to improve this color?

[jagabo]

" SmoothTweak(brightness=7, contrast=1.3, saturation=1.5, hue1=5, hue2=0) "

You need to use gamma rather than contrast. You've blown out the brights and your black level is too high. Something like ColorYUV(gamma_y=100, gain_y=40, off_y=-13) will approximate Sanlyn's levels adjustments. Then follow up with your color adjustments.

But I believe that is not what you want to do with the shot. You're turning a dark romantic dinner shot into lunch at a diner. Though, I don't know the movie. Maybe it is lunch at a diner.

[sanlyn]

Well....I wouldn't think that my screen shot looks so perfect. I was working with an image converted to RGB, not with the source. I improved it somewhat, but the colors just don't look "clean" to me. But any tape source has that problem, even from a DVD lab.

Note: The two clips you submitted from this movie don't look as problematic as the jpg's. The defect in common is crippled blue. Anyone can guess what caused it. But looking at your sample clips, I see that just "adding blue" doesn't work so well. Will demonstrate some of that a little later (I'm actually at work at home now, and I keep getting interrupted. Sorry). Crippled blue is a little odd: the movie was shot with Eastman Color (if I recall), which is usually too cyan (think blue+green). Here, it's blue that's stunted and green that's overextended.

In that restaurant shot, I wanted something white or gray to get a color balance point. But...no white, no gray. Robert Stack's shirt might be white, but more likely it's pale blue. If you make that shirt white, everything turns orange. Not good. Just below the middle of the image to the right of the lamp are some serving cups in a small niche in the cabinet. Are they dull white? Likely, but making them pure white threw things off in the middle colors. As jagabo said, the lighting in this scene is likely subdued, not like a Broadway musical; pumping contrast in YUV could be tricky. People close to the lamp will be brighter than distant objects. So I paid more attention to reducing green first, then acting from there. One clue to another problem is oversaturated red (look at the bright red shirt in the background. It's still too "hot"). I reduced red saturation by 10% with Donald Graft's HSI filter in VirtualDub. Crushed colors were problematic in other jpg's -- the shot with John Kerr in the car with the overly-sunburned gal has coarse and ugly shadows, the flowers are way too red and the green leaves are crushed almost to black. I'm hoping the source video itself doesn't look like that.

Then I tweaked with gradation curves until the restaurant lady's hair and skin looked correct. In your shot, the shadow side of the lady's face is slightly too blue. In YUV, if you change blue you unavoidably change green and red. Skin tones will be warm with the lighting involved, but the biggest headaches were blue and green in the region RGB 30-RGB 80. I don't think one can target that narrow range with YUV controls. The other problem was brightness arounbd RGB 20 - RGB 60, which had to be lowered, and the midtones which had to be raised, without affecting the other ranges. I don't know how to do that in YUV. SmoothAdjust can use custom strings that might do it. I find it very tricky to fix such details in YUV.

If you look at an RGB histogram when using SmoothTweak's hue1 and hue2, you'll see something that doesn't happen with curves in RGB. If you increase red hue, all the reds shift to the right. That's OK for midtones and brights, but it changes color in the darkest region. Blacks won't be black, browns turn green, etc.

I'm looking over your clips. Much, much better than the jpg's (thank heavens). Meanwhile your SmoothTweak doesn't look bad to me. Leave it alone for a while and get a fresh look later.

Back soon. I'm sure others will chime in with more ideas.

Abd my scene with Richard Widmark holding the drawing as a new problem: it's too blue. Oh, well.....

[sanlyn]

You need to use gamma rather than contrast. You've blown out the brights and your black level is too high. Something like ColorYUV(gamma_y=100, gain_y=40, off_y=-13) will approximate Sanlyn's levels adjustments. Then follow up with your color adjustments.

True. Those work much better than "contrast" in many ways.

But I believe that is not what you want to do with the shot. You're turning a dark romantic dinner shot into lunch at a diner. Though, I don't know the movie. Maybe it is lunch at a diner.

The whole movie is rather bright, as was the style in those days. But bright contrast in my shot is rather high (the lamp has a hot spot). A curve filter would taper off above RGB 200 or so to fix that, or something like "SmoothLevels(0, 0.95, 255, 12, 230) to taper the high end. Looking at something a day or two later changes many things. The scene is still too orange. Both people seem sunburned.

[jagabo]

I usually don't worry about the levels/colors of individual shots. I'm certainly not going to adjust an entire movie shot by shot. I usually look for a compromise adjustment that works over the bulk of the movie, correcting only the obvious, global problems. Color especially is very subjective. Different people will have different opinions about what the colors should be or what the director intended.

[sanlyn]

All true. I don't think the O.P. will go through all that, shot by shot. Fixing blue-green and overall levels ought to do it.

BTW, I wouldn't recommend RemoveSpots() here. OK for static scenes, but here's what happened to a camera pan in the "Gift" sample #1, using nothing but Remove Spots, no other cleanup. Here are portions of two frames from the clip. On the left, note the big white dot on the blackboard. On the right, The white dot is just behind RobertStack's head. That white dot is supposed to be there:



The attached m2v shows the effect RemoveSpots() can have sometimes -- on the white dot and several other elements. Moral: some things are better left as-is.

[jagabo]

LOL. That's not a chalkboard. It's an HDTV and the dot should be blinking!

[sanlyn]

Definitely had it blinking!

BTW, DeDot didn't help, either. Too much motion. At least DeDot didn't blink.

[poisondeathray]

That's why it's advisable to use something more selective, like the MC variants of dirt/dust/spot removal plugins.

RemoveSpots() is way too damaging . Look at the brick wall , entire bricks and textures are missing! Books have their printing removed etc...

[sanlyn]

Yes, this one's a toughie for spots. Also: QTGMC interpolates many of them across miltiple frames. Phooey. If I find one that works, it should run before anything like QTGMC. The clip is progressive supposedly, but there's noise every time something moves and QTGMC at very fast (InputType=1) cleaned all of it. Will keep looking.

[sanlyn]

Most of the time I get decent results with this:

[poisondeathray]

Most of the time I get decent color results with this:

Crop(0,124,0,-124)
SmoothTweak(hue1=2,Saturation=1.2,dither=100)
ColorYUV(gain_y=20,cont_u=-100,off_u=-2)
Levels(16, 1.1, 255, 14, 235)
AddBorders(0,124,0,124)

Crop() is there to keep big black borders from affecting Tweak. "Levels" is there to keep everything in 16-240 spec. I suppose there are unlimited combinations of these values. Note that "cont_u=-100" is a negative value, flattens and stretches blue somewhat and keeps darks from turning blue.

Is this for "gift.demuxed.m2v" ?

I think levels should have "coring=false" or you get double limiting with those values , and shadow and highlight clipping .

[sanlyn]

Yes, for gift.demuxed.m2v. Y'know what? I didn't even notice that Levels had a coring parameter. I just ran it with coring off, looks okay. Thanks for checking me.

I think one could replace Levels with SmoothLevels and turn up dithering.

[poisondeathray]

I think one could replace Levels with SmoothLevels and turn up its dithering.

Yes, smoothlevels has dithering by default, and does not clip , clamp or apply limiter by default either. Since you were using smoothtweak, it might make sense to use smoothlevels too. But smoothlevels() it is a lot slower than levels() . If you use both "smooth" filters, the "banding" you get in the histogram will be from coloryuv

[vhelp]

i sometimes use virtualdub's built-in levels filter. it includes a param [x] Operate in luma instead of RGB. depending on the color adjustment i make, i sometimes turn it off since it may improve the final levels.

not sure if 'coring=false/true' the same funtion or not, but is there an equivalent param in the avisynth levels filter ?

[sanlyn]

i sometimes use virtualdub's built-in levels filter. it includes a param [x] Operate in luma instead of RGB. depending on the color adjustment i make, i sometimes turn it off since it may improve the final levels.

not sure if 'coring=false/true' the same function or not, but is there an equivalent param in the avisynth levels filter ?

Not certain what's meant by coring=true/false, but it is a parameter in Avisynth's Levels filter (as I just discovered, after overlooked it for so long!). There's no "coring" to set in VDub's Levels, but there's a separate VDub coring filter that only works at the dark end. The two levels filters can accomplish the same thing, but VDub's PhotoShop-style is easier to work with.

I wouldn't want to go to RGB with this video. But I now see banding and grain clumping in the original, mostly covered by lots of noise and low bitrate effects. Denoising of any kind reveals the defects regardless of other corrections. Mixed with the noise are magenta rainbows that sing and dance when the noise departs. Yet the color's such a mess, no way to get a clean white or good flesh tones; Blue YUV is crippled above RGB 128, and Green dominates all bright color. Guess I'll have to dig out my notes on the dither() plugin, do what can be done in YUV, add some film grain effect, then work with RGB color.

Nothing like another "learning experience" to keep me off the streets.

[jagabo]

i sometimes use virtualdub's built-in levels filter. it includes a param [x] Operate in luma instead of RGB. depending on the color adjustment i make, i sometimes turn it off since it may improve the final levels.

not sure if 'coring=false/true' the same funtion or not, but is there an equivalent param in the avisynth levels filter ?

When working with YUV AviSynth's levels filter only works on the luma channel. When given RGB I believe it converts to YUV, adjusts Y, then outputs RGB again.

VirtualDub's levels filter will always core because the input is rec.601 RGB and the output is rec.601 RGB.

[vhelp]

thanks for the explanations.

so i was working in levels in avisynth, but it seems to band/compress the image. hard to explain in words. the granularity of pixel detail is not the same as if i were 'not' to use the levels at all. however, it seems to fix the black level a bit in one vhs process i'm testing workflow in, so i'm hesitant to keep using it (or alternative method) or leave the levels alone in my vhs captures. i will continue running further tests.

i was testing some vhs->x264 encodes. as you all know, working with vhs has many black level, levels, for each content, and its getting too time consuming to bother and may decide to leave alone and let the sw player decide for me. thank again..

[xuguang_he]

RemoveSpots() does kill many details.

[xuguang_he]

Crop(0,124,0,-124)
SmoothTweak(hue1=2,Saturation=1.2,dither=100)
ColorYUV(gain_y=20,cont_u=-100,off_u=-2)
Levels(16, 1.1, 255, 14, 235, coring=false)
AddBorders(0,124,0,124)

I used this code, but the result turns out to be like this... even darker than before

[sanlyn]

That's actually somewhat closer to the more subdued lighting that was intended, if not a bit more dim than desired. The problem is still with blue and green. Green dominates the brights, and blue dies at about RGB 128 to RGB 150. There is no bright blue in the video. No YUV filter I've used is giving it. This morning I'm working with SmoothCurve to simulate a gradation curve filter like those used in Premiere and VirtrualDub, which work only in RGB.

[xuguang_he]

ConvertToRGB()
RgbAdjust(b=1.3, bb=-10)
ConvertToYV12()
LoadPlugin("D:\Program Files\Megui\tools\avisynth_plugin\SmoothAdjust-MSVC-x86.dll")
SmoothTweak(brightness=5, saturation=1.7, hue1=2, dither=100)
ColorYUV(levels="TV->PC", gamma_y=100, off_y=-10, gain_y=40, off_u=-7)

Levels(16, 1.1, 255, 14, 235, coring=false)

I tried the code above, and the result...

[xuguang_he]

What abou this video, is there any further improvement upon color or something?

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/355281-How-to-deal-with-color-spilling

[jagabo]

By adding levels="TV->PC" to ColorYUV you've crushed blacks and brights.

[xuguang_he]

Adding this levels="TV->PC" made my picture more closer to sanlyn's screenshot, otherwise, I get no idea.

[budwzr]

Which one is "fixed", the top or bottom?

Start by determining the white point and black point. It helps to keep luma and colors within 16-240 spec. I made some quick notes of problems to look for:

Image 1: Too green. Blacks, grays, whites off-color. Undersaturated. Low gamma. Darks crushed.
Image 2: Too green. Blacks, grays, whites off-color. Undersaturated. Low gamma.
Image 3: Too green. Blacks, grays, whites off-color. Low Gamma. Darks crushed.
Image 4: Too yellow. Blacks, grays, whites off-color. Low Gamma. Undersaturated
Image 5: Too yellow. Undersaturated. Low gamma, brights suppressed.
Image 6: Blue suppressed. Undersaturated. Low gamma.
Image 7: Too green. Low gamma and contrast. Uneven color: darks and brights have different color balance.
Image 8: Too green. Low gamma and contrast. Poor midtone/bright balance.
Image 9: Too red. Oversauratd, darks crushed and corrupt, brights pushed and clipped. midtones suppressed. Grainy shadows.
Image10: Oversaturated. Too red. Darks crushed, low gamma.
Image 11: Too yellow. Low gamma, brights clipped.
Image 12: Low gamma, darks crushed. Midtones too red, brights yellow, blacks red.
Image 13: Oversaturated, highlights pushed. bright reds pushed, midtonees green.
Image 14: Oversturated. Too dark, reds pushed, brights green. Grainy shadows.
Image 15: Color completely corrupt, oversaturated, reds pushed, blacks blue and crushed, highlights clipped.

5 sample corrections with gradation curves, Color Mill, Levels. Primary white-black points determined with After Effects.


[Attachment 17291 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 17292 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 17293 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 17294 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 17297 - Click to enlarge]

I made only one quick pass at these. A few gave me a lot of trouble. I tend to look for convincing color and levels. Sometimes it's just a matter of taste, but over saturation is usually a turnoff. To each his own.

Someone posted earlier that this DVD looks like something mastered from tape. It sure does.

[budwzr]

Did you try Replace(head) ?

[sanlyn]

The notes refer mostly to the jpg images -- which we see, from your posted sample clips, don't look that much like the source video. But notes concerning the blue-green problem and low gamma still apply to your sample clips.

Both images from post #51 are getting closer to the truth, as they say, but jagabo is correct: most scenes will have hard clipping in darks and brights -- it's easy to see crushed darks in the top image of post #51. You'd have to tweak the contrast range for many scenes; in the bottom image it doesn't matter so much because that scene is mostly midtones anyway, though it looks a little glaring.

My efforts with the jpg images shouldn't be taken as gospel. They're just examples of what can be done and the major problems to look for. Remember that you're dealing with a DVD that was not that well corrected and apparently came from a tape master -- those are two major hurdles. Everything I see from tape has unique trouble, the worst being the way levels and colors change with each camera shot (and sometimes during a camera shot !!). The script in post #51 gets closer to the mark, but it won't work with the opening shots in your gift2 sample:

[xuguang_he]

I just want to improve the color, which is now present faded and dark.

[xuguang_he]

Sanlyn, do you have any suggestion on this post? I regard this one as more difficult to deal with... Thank you very much for detailed replying.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/355281-How-to-deal-with-color-spilling

[sanlyn]

I understand. Can't tell you how many similar projects I've spent time on. To save time and effort, I make as many basic level and color corrections as I can in YUV. Using RGB filters is a tweak of that primary correction, and IMO it's quicker and more flexible than trying to do it all in YUV. I have digital DVD recordings directly onto DVD that I edit frequently: I've never had to put anything more than a simple, basic fix -- and the vast majority don't need a fix at all. But something from analog master source....that's an entirely different story.

The capture and restoration forums are full of long posts about repairing bad encodes and captures. This example isn't unusual. It's actually a better source than many we've seen. You should see some of the horrors that jagabo has dealt with. Well, no.....maybe you shouldn't see those. They're too intimidating.