MiniDV to computer - recent experiences

[flickserve]

Like many others, I have a stack of miniDV tapes and a Sony PC 100 miniDV camcorder that is getting rather old. I have been rather lazy about transferring on to computer. Note, this is not about editing.

I thought I'd just put down my experiences to help others trouble shoot.

1. Computer - I run a i7-3770K with 32GB RAM and Windows 7 Professional. There are a few hard drives and the HDD with the OS on it is an SSD (allows faster bootup times). It's a high end machine that I custom made. There are some important things that are necessary for the transfer.

- a spare large HDD that is totally dedicated to the video files. I am transferring on to a 1.5TB HDD that is internal. I have another one for backups. Absolutely do not trust all that hard work to one hard drive.

- connections for backup - a USB 3.0 or eSATA connection makes backup copies much easier. In fact, I'd almost say this is mandatory

- Firewire (IEEE1394) connection. My computer didn't have this connection as standard. I needed to buy a another card that slots into the computer PCI-E slot. Then install the drivers to make it work.

2. Software - apart from Windows 7 64bit Pro, I have winDV installed as recommended in older threads. WinDV is very easy to use and available for free. Simple is good

3. Connection - There is something called iLink on the camcorder to transfer footage to the computer. In fact, this just a is a firewire connection. The camcorder end is 4 pin, the computer end is 6pin. I bought mine at a computer store many moons ago and it is a generic wire.

4. Camcorder - (incidently, mine is a PAL model). I find it's easier to run it off the mains supply. The battery (which doesn't seem to charge) is removed. Mains supply is more consistent so I don't worry about the camcorder stopping midway.


Problems I have had:

Mainly it's with WinDV - it was written many years ago so I was concerned it won't work on Windows 7 64bit Pro. And yes, it is a bit inconsistent. Sometimes the video doesn't come up - I think the software cannot recognise the camera at times. There is a solution. I restart the whole computer. From a fresh start and then WinDV being the first program to be opened, I find the camcorder data can be recognised and the input captured. However, even this is not a 100% and I may have to restart the computer a second time. Having the SSD with OS on it is a great advantage in this situation because bootup times are much faster. With future generations of Windows, I think the possibility of WinDV not working becomes higher.

Even if one miniDV is captured, the next tape might not be recognised so I have to restart the computer again!


Camcorder - It's getting old. I find that some tapes can't be rewound giving a C31 error. Occasionally, taking them in and out and trying again gets the rewind mechanism working again. I am a bit wary of doing it too often. I have put these tapes to the side and will try to borrow another miniDV camcorder to do the rewinding. These tend to be the tapes that are all the way at the end of the tape.

Given those issues, capturing is fine.

What I worry about is if this camcorder will break down.....

[SixFiftyThree]

1. None of this is important except for the FireWire card. Basically, DV is very old and so the requirements are very low - no need for anything high end. Of course it's always best to capture to a non-OS drive, so good choice there. Also, you shouldn't only rely on HDDs for backup either; consider getting a Blu-ray burner for additional optical backups.

2. More on this in a moment.

3. Should be fine, wouldn't hurt to buy another one though.

4. Good, having to recharge batteries is a PITA. I would know, I had to transfer tapes from a cam with a broken power input. But just because you can keep it on doesn't mean you should, so make sure to give it a rest now and then.

Software -
Based on your troubles with WinDV, I would rule that out as an option right now. Personally, I don't even use it on XP - ScenalyzerLive is also free and much better (I've been recommending it for a while but I guess it hasn't caught on). Not sure if it works on Win7, but give it a try. If not, you can always turn to NLEs eg. Vegas, Premiere. Great for editing so it would justify the cost, and Vegas is as low as $45.

Camcorder -
Yes, these devices do develop quirks with age, and the tapes themselves degrade. Since the video is digital, it's much more of a problem and you may have difficulty even playing it on other hardware. You'll likely find footage with colourful, pixellated crap everywhere, among other nasty things. There are ways to overcome that, but my advice is to simply transfer the tapes as is, to minimize further wear to your cam.

Play each tape through just once, and don't rewind after. Getting through the stack is the priority. During the process, don't mix different brands of tape, as it may cause damage due to differing lubricants. Organise your stack into brands, and use a Sony cleaning cassette after transferring each lot. After you're done, and if the cam still works, you can look into re-capturing corrupted sections (more on that another time).

I can say more but I'll leave it at that for now.

[turk690]

Firewire (IEEE1394) connection. My computer didn't have this connection as standard. I needed to buy a another card that slots into the computer PCI-E slot. Then install the drivers to make it work.

In my experience, not all FireWire cards are created equal. DV camcorders still work best (the camcorder is unfailingly detected every time it is connected, data transfers without a hitch, camcorder transport is reliably controlled by capture program) with original FireWire400-only cards (as opposed to those also capable of 800 and above, or multi-purpose cards that also include USB ports).
Also, the most reliable cards (and main boards if built-in) seem to be the ones that use a Texas Instruments (TI) FireWire chipset, as opposed to those that use VIA or Promise or other.

[SixFiftyThree]

Agree with the above post. TI chips are recommended, and there are certain manufacturers that are recommended too. SIIG is one of them, I own their 2-Port PCIe model.

[flickserve]

Thanks for the feedback.

I agree my computer is overkill just for the function of capturing. It was built for photo processing. My old computer had slowed to a crawl for photoediting. Blu Ray for backup is something I have definitely considered. There is an empty slot is the case where it will fit nicely.

2. Following the suggestion, I have installed Scenanalyxer. I get the same problem as WinDV in that the device is not detected. Then I need to reboot the computer, sometimes two times before the DV is detected. So it's probably not a software problem but something to do with the card or drivers. I don't think it's a TI chip inside the Firewire card. These cards are hard to come by in my locality now and I have to rely on generic cards. Good that the point was raised otherwise I might not have made the link.


The issue of using the not mixing brand of tapes is something I will be doing. Luckily, I tended only to use one particular brand of Sony miniDV and a small number of other brands. Also, I don't seem to have much problem with the corrupted data so far. The few instances have been limited to less than 30secs - most of the footage is home videos so short corrupted sections can be edited out easily.


Didn't realise that I had so many tapes to get through!

[fvisagie]

Following the suggestion, I have installed Scenanalyxer.

That's a great move with three huge but little-known benefits in your scenario:

1. WinDV converts 48 kHz DV audio to 32 kHz (or rather, I haven't been able to get it not to)
2. Of all the capture utilities I could lay my hands on for evaluation, ScenalyzerLive does by far the best job of fixing video/audio sync in a perceptually acceptable way. With one particular broken test frame most utilities would create a 1-frame audible audio gap, Windows 7's built-in Photo Gallery Live creates an annoying high-pitched glitch, and only ScenalyzerLive stitches the audio together imperceptibly.
3. Most utilities report dropped frames (even when captured but with errors), VirtualDub apparently drops frames by default, and of the ones I tried only ScenalyzerLive reports both dropped AND error frames. These are reported by frame position, which greatly simplifies multi-capturing.

Cheers,
Francois

[SixFiftyThree]

Sclive also shows errors in the thumbnail clips/timeline, which is great for determining their location and hopefully resolving them.

I get the same problem as WinDV in that the device is not detected. Then I need to reboot the computer, sometimes two times before the DV is detected.

I've never transferred DV on Win7, but apparently it needs the 1394 legacy driver to work correctly. You should check you have it installed correctly before looking into the card, because I actually doubt this is a hardware problem.

Definitely work out all the kinks, and test everything out, before making anymore progress on the project. Eliminating variables is essential, so that if there are problems, you know it can only be the source and not something to do with the transfer process.

[fvisagie]

I get the same problem as WinDV in that the device is not detected. Then I need to reboot the computer, sometimes two times before the DV is detected.

I've never transferred DV on Win7, but apparently it needs the 1394 legacy driver to work correctly.

Let me confirm at least that on Windows 7 32-bit SP1 I don't get device detection problems. The adapter is a built-in 1394 controller, it uses the built-in Microsoft driver and unfortunately no further details on chipset etc. are available from Dell documentation. Device Manager only reports it as "1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller".

Cheers,
Francois

[manono]

WinDV converts 48 kHz DV audio to 32 kHz (or rather, I haven't been able to get it not to)

Are you using a Canopus box too? In my experience 32kHz is default for Canopus and WinDV caps whatever it's sent. Change it in whichever Canopus unit you have. If you're using one. I've been quite happy using WinDV.

[SixFiftyThree]

WinDV converts 48 kHz DV audio to 32 kHz (or rather, I haven't been able to get it not to)

I skipped over this before. I've compared an old transfer, done on two separate occasions, one with WinDV and the other with ScLive - both report 48kHz. So there shouldn't be differences in sampling rate between the two programs.

If you're only working with native DV video, your tapes may simply be recorded at 32kHz, and WinDV is transferring them as so. ScLive, on the other hand, can be configured; either auto (same as on tape), or 32/16, 44.1/16 and 48/16.

Otherwise, if you're using a Canopus unit (or similar DV converter) for analog capture, check its settings as manono said.

[fvisagie]

Are you using a Canopus box too? In my experience 32kHz is default for Canopus and WinDV caps whatever it's sent.

I'm glad you asked. I'm not using a Canopus converter but seem to have missed a subtlety somewhere. I'd made doubly sure the source of the 32 kHz capture was actually 48 kHz, and redid the capture at the time for good measure. Following your question I checked again and now 48 kHz audio's being captured at 48 kHz? Interesting.

Cheers,
Francois

[flickserve]

Update: the process has been fairly smooth. The tapes that couldn't be rewound before I have managed to transfer some of them. What I would have to do is to place them in the camcorder. Then make sure the all the whirring has stopped, wait a few seconds, and then press rewind. It doesn't work for every tape though.

Still another 30 odd tapes to go. Didn't realise I had so much footage!