No sound in winDV captures, DV-type 2

[aedipuss]

yeah the only bug is behind the keyboard.

[Steve Stepoway]

I think the conclusion for the issue about winDV not capturing the audio while autostarting camera in type 2, 16-bit mode, has to be a bug in WinDV.

It is kind of remarkable that in over 11 years of Win DV continual use you're the first to discover this bug.

He's not the first to discover that bug (and it is a bug). Back in the day, when Mini-DV and winDV were commonly used, it was discussed. Other people ran into it. I ran into it. Using winDV to control the camera did cause the sound to not be recorded properly, at least under some conditions. Manually starting the camera before starting winDV "capture" solves the problem. Why hasn't it been discussed over the past few years? Perhaps there aren't that many people using Mini-DV/winDV anymore. But the problem is/was a known problem.

[SixFiftyThree]

WinDV is just fussy about audio from native DV sources. I've experienced its issues myself, particularly with sample rate changes. I switched to ScenalyzerLive ages ago and the audio is always perfect, it just knows what to do by itself. It's more advanced s/w but just as lightweight as the simpler alternatives. Haven't captured with Enosoft but that may also be worth a try.

[2Bdecided]

I doubt padding 12-bits to 16-bits is a bug. In RIFF WAVE files (i.e. normal .wav files), audio samples must be byte-aligned - i.e. in blocks of 8-bits...

"For example, if the sample size (recorded in nBitsPerSample) is 12 bits, then each sample is
stored in a two-byte integer. The least significant four bits of the first (least significant) byte is set
to zero."

from...
http://www-mmsp.ece.mcgill.ca/Documents/AudioFormats/WAVE/Docs/riffmci.pdf

I don't know, but maybe in AVI files (which are also RIFF) the audio stream has to follow the same restriction?

It's possible that the audio muxed with the video in a single stream (the DV format that comes off the tape) remains as 12-bits - and as this is the only audio in Type 1 file, is reported as such. Whereas the separate audio stream created for type 2 files is padded to 16-bits, and reported as such. A simple check of filesize will show the overall bitrates reported for type 2 files are wrong because they ignore the audio muxed into the video stream.

I just checked a file which (I THINK) was captured using Windows Movie Maker, and that also has 16-bit 32kHz audio in a type-2 DV AVI file. Both MediaInfo and VirtualDUB agree on this.

Cheers,
David.

[Cornucopia]

I think you hit the nail on the head, David, at least as regards the 12bit vs. 16bit (including padding) designation. BTW, I'm not sure if you meant me, but I wasn't trying to infer that this was a bug. Makes sense that RIFF AUDIO packets in AVI files would be padded to be byte aligned (makes for easier parsing by dumb programs).

Scott

[brusno]

there is a setting in most miniDV camcorders to make 12bit the default. it would send that info first even with a 16bit tape in the cam for that short time the tape lead-in played.

I have never experienced capturing 12 bit audio with a cassette of 16 bit audio (having camera setting on 12 bit).
And in those cases where the 12 bit audio turned into 16 bit, then it was only in type 2, and not in type 1, so I don't think it was the camera's setting which triggered it for me. But there are a lot of different cameras, so it may be wise to have the camera on the same setting as the tape playing anyway.

It's possible that the audio muxed with the video in a single stream (the DV format that comes off the tape) remains as 12-bits - and as this is the only audio in Type 1 file, is reported as such. Whereas the separate audio stream created for type 2 files is padded to 16-bits, and reported as such. A simple check of filesize will show the overall bitrates reported for type 2 files are wrong because they ignore the audio muxed into the video stream.

Ok, so then my assumption about the audio being 16 bit, even when coming from a 12 bit source may be right then . And that mediainfo stated it right too. I'm sure winDV has a good reason about doing this. Padding the 12 bit audio to 16 bit audio. In practical life it doesn't matter, as long as the audio is as good as the one on the tape.

[bhershey]

I'm having VERY similar behavior with a batch of mini-dv tapes. There is something happening when scenes change and the audio goes away. Not every scene, but it happened on 10 of 13 tapes. The audio will come back at the next file split if winDV is setup that way. If I capture the entire file at once the audio never comes back.

To get the tapes transferred I split the files every 15 minutes during capture and check the last captured segment... if no sound I stop and rewind to the beginning of the scene and start again... ugh.

I'll try AVI type 1 and see if it continues, or try another capture program, like Scenalyzer. The next batch will have 50+ tapes from the same customer, so I gotta figure this out!