How to record TV show to PC using HAUPPAUGE HD-PVR DEVICE?

[tigerb]

OK, after some research it seems like it's possible to record TV shows in HD 1080i to PC using one of the HAUPPAUGE HD-PVR DEVICE...

I've a dual tuner Motorola digital box http://www.motorola.com/Video-Solutions/US-EN/Products-and-Services/Video-Consumer-Pre.../DCX3400_US-EN, and my cable company is broadcasting in 1080i.

1) Which of the HAUPPAUGE HD-PVR DEVICE specifically I need to buy?
2) As mentioned above, my cable company is broadcasting in 1080i, but I've seen many soccer matches in 720p.TS (about 3 - 4.5 GB) in excellent quality 60 FPS, so how do I do that? do I adjust my Motorola DCX from 1080i to 720p or use the software such as MythTV to record in 720p?

Thanks.

[jagabo]

Make sure the component outputs are working on your cable box. Then get any Hauppauge HD PVR with component inputs. The HDMI outputs of the cable box are likely to be HDCP encrypted -- the HD PVR devices with HDMI inputs will not record HDCP encrypted HDMI. Though I'm not absolutely sure about cable boxes in Canada. You can get HDCP strippers if you're willing to spend more:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/334145-HDCP-strippers

If you set your cable box to always output 1080i any 720p sources will be converted to 1080i. Conversely, if you set the cable box to output 720p any 1080i sources will be downscaled. Some cable boxes have the ability to output the video in its native format. That's what I used to use with the original HD PVR.

[tigerb]

Make sure the component outputs are working on your cable box. Then get any Hauppauge HD PVR with component inputs. The HDMI outputs of the cable box are likely to be HDCP encrypted -- the HD PVR devices with HDMI inputs will not record HDCP encrypted HDMI. Though I'm not absolutely sure about cable boxes in Canada. You can get HDCP strippers if you're willing to spend more:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/334145-HDCP-strippers

If you set your cable box to always output 1080i any 720p sources will be converted to 1080i. Conversely, if you set the cable box to output 720p any 1080i sources will be downscaled. Some cable boxes have the ability to output the video in its native format. That's what I used to use with the original HD PVR.

Thanks jagabo, is this the http://www.amazon.ca/Hauppauge-1212-Definition-Personal-Recorder/dp/B0018LX0DY box I need to buy? or this newer one is better? http://www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-1512-Definition-Personal-Technology/dp/B00BA4ILX8/ref=...4507792&sr=1-6

Are these the correct steps?
1) Connect component outputs from my cable box to component outputs of the Hauppauge HD PVR
2) Connect USB from the Hauppauge HD PVR to USB port of my PC
3) Select 720p instead of 1080i in my cable box
4) Record using MythTV or the included Arcsoft Total Media Extreme and Arcsoft Media Convert

Thanks.

[jagabo]

I'd suggest the HD PVR 2 since it's newer, more flexible, and has more features. It has HDMI input in case you ever get to use them (which should get you a slightly sharper picture). But there is something you should check:

How is your cable box connected to the TV now? HDMI or component? If you are using HDMI you may find that the component output is disabled while using HDMI. That was the case with my cable box (different than yours) so I had to use its component output. Note that component video may be less sharp and a little less accurate than HDMI. When using component cables and the original HD PVR you run component from the cable box to the HD PVR's component input, then from the HD PVR's component output to the HDTV. As I understand it, the HD PVR 2 can take component in and convert it to HDMI for output -- but it doesn't have component output so you have to use an HDMI input on the TV. Both HD PVR's passthrough signal only works when the device turned on. So the HD PVR has to be on any time you want to watch TV.

If your cable box puts out HDMI and component at the same time you can run an HDMI cable to the HDTV (for the best picture) and component cable to the HD PVR. Either HD PVR will work for you. In this scenario you only have to turn the HD PVR on when you want to record.

Another device that seems to get good reviews is the ElGato Game Capture HD. It might be worth checking out. It's in the same price range and is similar to the HD PVR 2. I'm looking into the device now...

[sanlyn]

Note that component video may be less sharp and a little less accurate than HDMI.

Debatable. But with the common big-box and/or cheapo $2.00 wire most people use, there's little or no difference.

[jagabo]

Note that component video may be less sharp and a little less accurate than HDMI.

Debatable.

You can argue that you prefer the picture you get from a digital source via component. Or that you prefer your TV's handling of component inputs. But you can't argue that it's more accurate than HDMI. It's like the difference between ripping a Blu-ray, DVD, or CD vs. recording them via analog.

[tigerb]

Hi jagabo, I just found out that both HDMI and component stay active on the DCX3400 from my cable company.

My current setup is already DCX 3400 HDMI to HDMI of TV in 1080i, once I purchased the HAUPPAUGE HD-PVR or ElGato Game Capture HD I will connect the component from DCX 3400 to component of HAUPPAUGE HD-PVR or ElGato Game Capture HD and USB from HAUPPAUGE HD-PVR or ElGato Game Capture HD to PC, right?

One quick question, viewing TV via HDMI from DCX 3400 is super clear, however now I'm connecting the component from DCX 3400 to component of HAUPPAUGE HD-PVR or ElGato Game Capture HD for recording soccer matches, will the quality be slightly degraded (the .TS video), or this doesn't matter as long as the DCX 3400 to TV is HDMI?

Thanks.

[Brad]

^ The connection to the capture box is all that matters for recorded quality. The connection to the TV has no impact.

The HD PVR 2's only advantage is HDMI input while it has the disadvantage of dropping support for 5.1 audio. I also found that the HD PVR 2 can't record 1080i signals properly.

[jman98]

tigerb - The Hauppauge devices that record HDMI only record UNENCRYPTED HDMI. I have no idea if your cable company will encrypt its video sent out over HDMI. You may just simply have to test it and see if it works or not.

[sanlyn]

Note that component video may be less sharp and a little less accurate than HDMI.

Debatable.

You can argue that you prefer the picture you get from a digital source via component. Or that you prefer your TV's handling of component inputs. But you can't argue that it's more accurate than HDMI. It's like the difference between ripping a Blu-ray, DVD, or CD vs. recording them via analog.

My argument is against HDMI Ethernet twisted-pair wire and terminations, not about the HDMI "idea" itself. I've tried more than 20 HDMI wires, probably more, I lost count a long time ago. I settled on 6 wires, from 3 makers. Price was no guide: three were $12, two were $30, one came with my OPPO player and in some respects it's better than the $30 job. Of those 3 brands, no two branded versions look or sound exactly alike. I've tried them from $3.50 no-name to $400 big-name (the latter being among the worst, with serious color issues), in my setup and several others. I had similar experiences with PC monitor cables. Admittedly, you could say the same for any 20 coax wires as well.

No one will settle the all-wire-is-alike debate. Some see/hear a difference, some don't. I watch video through a lot of wires with a local movie fan club on a dozen or so player/tv/projector setups, all calibrated; their experience is like mine. But you're correct -- in the end, those who detect a difference will use what they "like".

[jagabo]

Yet you're willing to trust your data transfers over twisted pair ethernet cable all day long.

What differences did you think you saw using different HDMI cables? Since the data that is transmitted over the wire is the ones and zeros of uncomrpessed video the only errors you can get are sparkles. You can't get the ills of analog transmission: color shifts, level shifts, ghosting, blurring, halos, etc. Digital errors are when a one turns into a zero or a zero turns into a one. Say you have 8 consecutive zeros:

0000000

A single bit error in transmitting that byte can result in:

00000001
00000010
00000100
00001000
00010000
00100000
01000000
10000000

Say that byte was the Y value of a pixel. That means the pixel changed from intensity 0 to intensity 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, or 128. That would be visible on the screen as a bright spot for the duration of a frame. Of course, exactly the opposite could happen, a one in the middle of 11111111 could change to a zero. The result would be a darkening of the pixel, a dark sparkle for the duration of that frame. And in the middle of a U or V byte you would get a color change. In the middle of an R, G, or B byte you would get a color/brigtness change. Any single bit error will result in 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, or 128 being added or subtracted from the original value. You don't get subtle 1 and 2 changes with a slightly bad cable, 1-8 changes with a slightly worse cable, etc. The errors are equally distributed over all 8 possibilities. When an HDMI cable is marginal you get sparkles. Only a little bit worse and you get total failure of the handshake between the source and sink, no picture at all.

Here's an example. The a 1920x1080 RGB version of the Belle Nuit test partern, without error, and with 1000 single bit errors:





If you download those images and run a binary file comparison (after decompression) you'll see there are exactly 1000 differences. This represents a horrendous error rate. I doubt many HDMI connections would survive error rates this high.

Of course, single bit errors aren't the only possible errors. You can get multiple errors in a single byte (or pixel) or long strings of errors. Even so, what you get is severely messed up pixels, not subtle color changes, blurring, ghosting, etc. CNET (I think) had some good example images a few years ago. I can't find them now.

I found the CNET article: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20056502-1/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

[sanlyn]

Yet you're willing to trust your data transfers over twisted pair ethernet cable all day long.

Data circuits have error correction. HDMI does not.

I don't spend much time watching test patches. They don't have the subtlety, complexity, or motion of video. jagabo, I've seen the test screens and the 'scope demos. They always tell you something. But they're not video. It's like comparing computer-generated anime with film.

CNET?

I think we'll be going in this circle forever. But I don't mind, even if we're both stubborn.

[Brad]

Data circuits have error correction. HDMI does not.

HDMI has TMDS. Ethernet does not.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-hdmi

[gll99]

^ The connection to the capture box is all that matters for recorded quality. The connection to the TV has no impact.

The HD PVR 2's only advantage is HDMI input while it has the disadvantage of dropping support for 5.1 audio. I also found that the HD PVR 2 can't record 1080i signals properly.

Can you expand on the bolded statement. I own the original Hauppauge 1212 and just bought the 1512 (1519 in Canada) last night but haven't unboxed it yet.

[tigerb]

^ The connection to the capture box is all that matters for recorded quality. The connection to the TV has no impact.

The HD PVR 2's only advantage is HDMI input while it has the disadvantage of dropping support for 5.1 audio. I also found that the HD PVR 2 can't record 1080i signals properly.

Can you expand on the bolded statement. I own the original Hauppauge 1212 and just bought the 1512 (1519 in Canada) last night but haven't unboxed it yet.

Care to share where and how much you paid for the 1512(1519) in Canada?, it seems like most Canadian retailers are only stocking the 1212(1219), Amazon US has the 1512(1519).

Thanks.

[gll99]

^ The connection to the capture box is all that matters for recorded quality. The connection to the TV has no impact.

The HD PVR 2's only advantage is HDMI input while it has the disadvantage of dropping support for 5.1 audio. I also found that the HD PVR 2 can't record 1080i signals properly.

Can you expand on the bolded statement. I own the original Hauppauge 1212 and just bought the 1512 (1519 in Canada) last night but haven't unboxed it yet.

Care to share where and how much you paid for the 1512(1519) in Canada?, it seems like most Canadian retailers are only stocking the 1212(1219), Amazon US has the 1512(1519).

Thanks.

Local supplier Canada Computers $179.99 and I saw Staples advertise it at $199.99 on their site

btw) could have saved $20 by ordering online from Canada Computers but didn't want to wait.

[gll99]

Just a note on the Hauppauge HD PVR2 Gaming Edition:

In case you didn't know and decide to opt for the Gaming edition instead of the 1512 / 1519 there is an early release model of the Gaming edition HD PVR2 I believe the code is 1482 / 1488. The newest version is called (1498 or 1504 I've found both codes) Gaming the Edition Plus and it includes AC3 digital audio (SPDIF) with 5.1 Surround Sound like the 1519. Some places are clearing the earlier model at cheaper prices but some are trying to dump them at full price. It can be a good deal if you don't care about 5.1 audio.

EDIT:
Just to be clear since often people post video and comments about features or lack thereof without specifying the exact model they bought ...... I bought the Hauppauge HD PVR2 1512 (1519 in Canada just for the language info) and it has the AC3 digital audio (SPDIF) with 5.1 Surround Sound connector on it.

[Brad]

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware that the Gaming Edition was actually a sidegrade from the regular HD PVR 2 (lose AC3, add a bunch of "free" cables). So for AC3 you want the 1512/1519 or the 1504.

I posted about HD PVR 2 vs. 1080i here. Support emailed me back after a week and said they would forward the info to the engineers.

Staples does price matching within 14 days.

[tigerb]

Local supplier Canada Computers $179.99 and I saw Staples advertise it at $199.99 on their site

btw) could have saved $20 by ordering online from Canada Computers but didn't want to wait.

Thx for the info, much appreciated.

Now, have to read more on Hauppauge HD PVR2 Gaming Edition....

Hmmmm, its confusing between the regular old HD-PVR/new PVR 2 Vs the old Gaming Edition/new Gaming the Edition Plus. From Hauppauge own web site, it states:


HD-PVR (old)
1212English
1219 English + French

HD-PVR 2 (new)
1512 English
1519 English + French

then there are also 1488 HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition and 1446 HD PVR Gaming Edition with the original 1219 still being the most expensive.

Let me ask this, whatever the regular HD-PVR (old) or HD-PVR 2 (new) can do, the Gaming Edition (old) or new can also do, but not the other way round, right?

What is this Colossus? same thing without the box?

Thanks.

[gll99]

The only thing I could find that is different when comparing the HD PVR2 1512 / 1519 and the HD PVR2 Gaming Edition Plus model 1504 is that they include an ir blaster cable with the 1519. I haven't found any other differences so far. I guess they assume you might want the channel changer feature. From what I read the software is the same and all the connectors seem the same. Not sure if they've dropped the green light with the newer gaming edition but I know the 1519 is blue like the 1212.

The reason I was confused while researching the models and decided to post about the 2 GE versions is because I found many posts and youtube videos that seemed inconsistent with what I was reading about the GE plus and the 1519. Many people just called the model HD PVR2 and didn't make any distinction. Then I realized that they just released the 1519 and 1504 in early Feb 2013 but released the early version of the HD PVR2 GE model 1488 without the spdif connector late last summer.

[tigerb]

Upon more reading, it seems like the Colossus is what I really needed.

Basically I've this Motorola DCX 3400 with 500GB internal hard drive with 92% full and I added another 1TB external hard drive via eSata and it's gonna be full soon (soccer matches). One disadvantage with this set up is you need to keep adding external eSata hard drive (trust me, one WorldCup/EuroCup or even one season or EPL/CL, let alone LaLiga will fill 1TB in no time). I found out it's possible to keep these recorded shows even after discontinue service with my cable company (by disconnecting the cable to the DCX 3400 one day before the disconnection/cancellation date AND DO NOT power down the DCX 3400), however this is not 100% full proof, as a single power outage will render all recordings useless (touch wood, no outage in my area for the past 2 yrs).

If I'm reading the features of Colossus correctly, I can first record the shows to the DCX 3400 and use Colossus to record to my PC (from a reviewer who bought this product): http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX32905

4/5
12/10/2012 10:48:29 PM Strengths:Video quality is pretty good. Had everything up and running within 10 minutes after unboxing.Weaknesses:There seems to be at least a 1.5 second lag using the Component pass-thru. Not sure if this is a hardware or software issue.Summary:I mainly purchased this to record programs I have saved on my PVR, which is almost full, so it works great, but the lag makes it hard to use for capturing gaming.

[Brad]

You could also use Firewire to copy the data streams directly, provided you are willing to use Mac OS X or a 32-bit version of Windows.

[jagabo]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-hdmi

Nice. That's the first time I've seen someone capture the output of multiple HDMI cables and verify the received data was identical. It would be interesting to see the same thing done with some very long cables to see any real errors.

[sanlyn]

Data circuits have error correction. HDMI does not.

HDMI has TMDS. Ethernet does not.

What would an Ethernet data network need with TMDS? I'm afraid you miss the point.

[gll99]

Local supplier Canada Computers $179.99 and I saw Staples advertise it at $199.99 on their site

btw) could have saved $20 by ordering online from Canada Computers but didn't want to wait.

Thx for the info, much appreciated.

Now, have to read more on Hauppauge HD PVR2 Gaming Edition....

Hmmmm, its confusing between the regular old HD-PVR/new PVR 2 Vs the old Gaming Edition/new Gaming the Edition Plus. From Hauppauge own web site, it states:


HD-PVR (old)
1212English
1219 English + French

HD-PVR 2 (new)
1512 English
1519 English + French

then there are also 1488 HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition and 1446 HD PVR Gaming Edition with the original 1219 still being the most expensive.

Let me ask this, whatever the regular HD-PVR (old) or HD-PVR 2 (new) can do, the Gaming Edition (old) or new can also do, but not the other way round, right?

What is this Colossus? same thing without the box?

Thanks.

The reason I prefer the usb boxes over the pci-e Colossus is that I often run 2 computers side by side and can use it on either depending on which one is busy. It's just a matter of installing the software and then plugging it in a usb port.

Feature wise until they get a new model the original Colossus is about on par with the 1st generation HD PVR (1) gaming edition (1445 - 1446). It lacks the 5.1 audio capability and can only cap over composite and component inputs. Also like the 1st gen 1212 / 1219 and the 1st GE 1445 it is only able to cap up to 1080i based on the source. The HD PVR 2 (all versions) can cap up to 1080p/30 (can input up to 1080p/60) and accept both component via dongle and hdmi input (hdmi comes with copy restrictions). As I said before only the GE Plus has the 5.1 SPDIF audio connector like the original 1212/1219 and the new 1512 /1519.

One thing I forgot to mention about all the HD PVR2 models is that unlike earlier versions they don't accept a composite input out of the box. The HD PVR2 uses the same connector for both component and composite input. The component dongle is included in the box but the composite one has to be ordered from Hauppauge. IMO that's a cheap out by them. I don't need it but those who do get ready to fork out another $12 + for one.

Edit:
Another thing is that the original usb boxes were composite/component input to component out pass-through. The new HD PVR2 are composite/component/HDMI input to HDMI out pass-through. There is no component out.

[tigerb]

The reason I prefer the usb boxes over the pci-e Colossus is that I often run 2 computers side by side and can use it on either depending on which one is busy. It's just a matter of installing the software and then plugging it in a usb port.

Feature wise until they get a new model the original Colossus is about on par with the 1st generation HD PVR (1) gaming edition (1445 - 1446). It lacks the 5.1 audio capability and can only cap over composite and component inputs. Also like the 1st gen 1212 / 1219 and the 1st GE 1445 it is only able to cap up to 1080i based on the source. The HD PVR 2 (all versions) can cap up to 1080p/30 (can input up to 1080p/60) and accept both component via dongle and hdmi input (hdmi comes with copy restrictions). As I said before only the GE Plus has the 5.1 SPDIF audio connector like the original 1212/1219 and the new 1512 /1519.

One thing I forgot to mention about all the HD PVR2 models is that unlike earlier versions they don't accept a composite input out of the box. The HD PVR2 uses the same connector for both component and composite input. The component dongle is included in the box but the composite one has to be ordered from Hauppauge. IMO that's a cheap out by them. I don't need it but those who do get ready to fork out another $12 + for one.

Edit:
Another thing is that the original usb boxes were composite/component input to component out pass-through. The new HD PVR2 are composite/component/HDMI input to HDMI out pass-through. There is no component out.

Ah..., this is a very good consideration as I also run two PC.

Price is not a consideration as the "box" Vs "Colossus" is only about +/- $20. Given HDMI is encrypted, that leaves me with only component, maybe the original HAUPPAUGE HD-PVR 1212(1219) is the correct choice for me, but HD-PVR 2 1512(1519) is now selling about $30 cheaper than the original HD-PVR 1212(1219)!

gll99, since you already have the 1212(1219), what was the reason for getting the 1512(1519), are you still happy with your 1212(1219)?

[Brad]

There is no need to take HDMI encryption into account anymore when it can be defeated with a small $35 box. See the first reply.

[tigerb]

There is no need to take HDMI encryption into account anymore when it can be defeated with a small $35 box. See the first reply.

Oh yes, too much reading and I almost forgotten about that....this is great with this 4 Port 1 x 4 Audio Video 1080P HD HDMI Splitter Amplifier Multiplier Box http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/220864833576.

Thanks.

[gll99]

...........

Ah..., this is a very good consideration as I also run two PC.

Price is not a consideration as the "box" Vs "Colossus" is only about +/- $20. Given HDMI is encrypted, that leaves me with only component, maybe the original HAUPPAUGE HD-PVR 1212(1219) is the correct choice for me, but HD-PVR 2 1512(1519) is now selling about $30 cheaper than the original HD-PVR 1212(1219)!

gll99, since you already have the 1212(1219), what was the reason for getting the 1512(1519), are you still happy with your 1212(1219)?

Absolutely happy with my 1219. It's working well and has never given me any problems. The reason I bought the 1519 is because.....

1- I want to minimize bulky component cabling by using hdmi as much as possible. At the very least the output to the display will be hdmi
2- I'm not a gamer but the thought of capturing some 1080p source material interests me (not cable HDTV which is720p and 1080i)
3- I can connect a 2nd PC via HDMI and capture screen data in real time full 1080p. I can't do that with my 1219 without buying an hdmi or vga to component converter (pc video out to 1219 HDPVR in) and then I'd be limited to 1080i.
4- The 1219 came with a limited but working version of Total Media Extreme and the 1519 comes with Showbiz and a couple of other interesting software so my curiousity got the best of me.
5) I like the 1st one and it will be a good backup unit
6) I paid $229 for the 1219 so I consider $179.99 a pretty good price
7- It's just a hobby and it's a shiny new toy.

On a side note I might just order the special splitter and also a switch box to eliminate component cabling entirely if it works as some have said. I'd like to see more people post first hand experience about it. I just have to decide whether to order through Ebay or right off the company's site.

[tigerb]

Absolutely happy with my 1219. It's working well and has never given me any problems. The reason I bought the 1519 is because.....

1- I want to minimize bulky component cabling by using hdmi as much as possible. At the very least the output to the display will be hdmi
2- I'm not a gamer but the thought of capturing some 1080p source material interests me (not cable HDTV which is720p and 1080i)
3- I can connect a 2nd PC via HDMI and capture screen data in real time full 1080p. I can't do that with my 1219 without buying an hdmi or vga to component converter (pc video out to 1219 HDPVR in) and then I'd be limited to 1080i.
4- The 1219 came with a limited but working version of Total Media Extreme and the 1519 comes with Showbiz and a couple of other interesting software so my curiousity got the best of me.
5) I like the 1st one and it will be a good backup unit
6) I paid $229 for the 1219 so I consider $179.99 a pretty good price
7- It's just a hobby and it's a shiny new toy.

On a side note I might just order the special splitter and also a switch box to eliminate component cabling entirely if it works as some have said. I'd like to see more people post first hand experience about it. I just have to decide whether to order through Ebay or right off the company's site.

Thanks for taking the time to explain, much appreciated!

OK, I just found a deal for the HD PVR Gaming Edition (1488) http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr2-gaming.html for $139 plus taxes, is this better?

I also found out that MythTV only works on Linux (I'm using Windows 7 x64), is the included software ArcSoft ShowBiz so bad that even using it just for recording is bad? (not for editing, just recording).

Thanks.