Presets for sd to hd

[Yiota]

Hello guys!
I would like to ask you about SD to HD tips because I want to make a short film with different kinds of shooting. I'm working with Premiere Pro CS6 and I have matrox mxo LE max.
Basic video files are mov from Canon, 1920*1080, progressive scan, 30 fps, frame rate 30.
Other video files are mxf from Panasonic camera 720*576, lower fields, 50fps, frame rate 25.
Sequence settings are the same with basic video files and the export (final project) same too.
I want to do the best for better results with the other SD video files. I tried to use the Instand HD preset by REdGiant, the Magic Bullet Frames, matrox presets and premiere's field options: always deinterlace. Is any of them useful or the export will be fine? May I use all of them, some of them or nothing? What do you propose me to do? I don't care about the time, I want to have a great result. Thank you for your time

[addu]

Use first arcmedia converter to convert that mxf files to full hd preset using avchd use full hd resolution in it in the avchd selection and frame rate 30 fps. And in the general setting of the media converter check sharpen and use simhd. It will bring those files to close resolution for make up with basic video files from canon and use that in premiere pro cs6.

[smrpix]

I want to know a lot more about those files before making any kind of recommendation. What kind of Canon, What kind of Panasonic, what kind of mxf? If this hasn't been shot yet (as you imply) Why is it necessary to mix frame rates? If you're just going for different "looks" because it's cool (perfectly legitimate) try your different tools and see what you like.

[Yiota]

So do you think that this program gives better results than some presets of PP? Did you checked it for your projects and saw the results?
Sorry about the questions

[smrpix]

Arcmedia converter is a toy. There are plenty of free tools on this site that work as well or better.

Oh hell, did I just get suckered by arcmedia trolls?

[Yiota]

Unfortunately the celebration has shooted and I love some footages from sd quality.
Video files captured from Canon EOS 5D MarkII and other files from Panasonic AG-HVX200E

I can't trust simple programmes, I want very good results.

[smrpix]

This is sad. Can't understand why anyone would bother to shoot SD with a Panasonic camera that good.

Set up your premiere project to match the canon, go ahead and cut your program, use the tools internal to Premiere to rough it in.
Red Giant is excellent, btw.

You can also ask here for avisynth advice about deinterlacing, uprezing and framerate conversion -- triple death to quality. It will be slow, so you only want to process the footage you absolutely need.

[Yiota]

"Triple death to quality"
What do you mean?

I 've already did those things and now I have doupts about deinterlasing and scale. Before or after? On editing or on export?

[poisondeathray]

There are multiple issues, but the biggest concern regarding "quality" is the interlaced upscaling quality isn't very good in InstantHD Advanced or any NLE (because of poor deinterlacing quality) compared to some avisynth deinterlacers like QTGMC - as a result you will get upscaled deinterlacing artifacts (aliasing or "jaggies").

e.g 4:3 interlaced 720x480 source, upscaled to pillarboxed 1280x720

InstantHD Advanced (in AE, but should be the same in premiere)



QTGMC, NNEDI3_RPOW2




But avisynth is not as user friendly (no buttons to push, no real GUI except maybe avspmod), there learning curve at first, sometimes it's a bit of a hassle trying to collect plugins & .dll's, but at least it's free and many people are around to help with beginners.



Framerate conversions are a problem for any software. If your intended sequence goal is 1920x1080p30.0 , there just is no good way to convert 50i (or deinterlaced 25p footage) to 30.0p - You either have jerky inserted duplicate frames, less jerky, but blurry inserted blended frames, or motion interpolation methods which produce less jerky results, but edge morphing artifacts . 50i (or deinterlaced to 25p) and 30.0p is just a terrible choice to combine footage with

[smrpix]

What is your final delivery? You may actually want to end up with a 25fps output in Greece.

Thinking about your situation, I'm increasingly convinced you should not try to correct your footage before you edit. There are good reasons to optimize for 30, 50 or 60fps but you don't need to lock yourself into any of them just yet. You can actually make multiple copies of your finished timeline in Premiere, all with different parameters.

Going forward, if you're using your canon in Europe for a European audience, set it to 25fps. That will eliminate some of the issues.

[Cornucopia]

What Canon camera do you have that uses 30p in Greece?!! You should either have 25p or 50i (or 50p if you use 1280x720). Interlace matching is a problem, but can be worked around (via AVISynth, etc.). Scaling is a problem, but is fairly easily solved in most good NLEs or with AVISynth. It's the framerate matching that is the REAL problem.

Unless you are posting this to Youtube or something (or unless you shoot for Cinema), 25p/50i/50p should ALWAYS be both what you're shooting & what you're outputting from edits.

I'm wondering what kind of material you're shooting...one option for FRC not previously mentioned is framerate stretching/re-interpreting (IOW, 30fps for 30 sec = 900 frames. Those same 900 frames used in 25fps = 36 sec). So it would slow down the video (and the audio would have to be slowed down by 16% as well. That's why I asked what kind of material you're shooting, as it could greatly affect the style or not, depending on the material. Using this technique involves NO frame blending, interpolation, or timebase stuttering/judder.

Scott

<edit>Dangit, missed the bit about camera model again! NM

[Yiota]

Poisondeathray you disapointed me, but thank you for your detailed answer.

smrpix my final delivery will be on on internet and that's why i want hd progressive quality. This means that I will keep the canon settings. Today I tried to convert my sd footage with media encoder and with matrox h264 and I saw a better difference but not like canon's footages. I asked cameraman about 30fps and he said that camera has only this choice
I 'm always reading here about AVISynth, why? Is it really so good? Better than adobe media encoder? Deinterlaced tools like motion e.t.c. I can find on my presets in PP (if I did that on editing or on export)
I didn't expect that framerate would be the biggest problem in my expirement. If I don't have many hopes to have a good result I won't use the sd footage.
Thank you so much!!

[addu]

Ur views seems to me that u r beginner and will simply not understand many of the advance terminology of video editing.

[Yiota]

No I'm not and I know that my level is still low because I didn't studied that. I hope I don't seem so irrelevant hy:

[smrpix]

I asked cameraman about 30fps and he said that camera has only this choice

He's very wrong. This camera has been used in major feature films and TV series around the world. It's that good. None of them used 30 fps.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/583953-REG/Canon_2764B003_EOS_5D_Mark_II.html
(under specifications look at frame rate.)

[Yiota]

"...enables HD video recording that can capture true HD-quality (1080p) video at a frame rate of 30 fps with Face Detection and..."

"Record HD Video The EOS 5D Mark II is unusual among SLR digital cameras in that it is capable of recording full HD video, and it's the camera's Live View function that makes it possible. You'll record video clips in full High-Definition with 1080p image quality and a capture frame rate of 30 fps with sound. Users can even attach an external microphone for recording professional-quality audio with the video, and all Live View AF features can be used when the camera is shooting video. Furthermore, users can play back video clips on an HDTV display with higher quality with the camera's HDMI Video output (optional cable required)."

[smrpix]

Is this the same cameraman who chose SD on the nice Panasonic?

[smrpix]

Is it possible your cameraman never did the firmware upgrade from 3 years ago? (version 2.03,
now up to 2.12)

http://support-hk.canon-asia.com/contents/HK/EN/0400048602.html

[turk690]

I 'm always reading here about AVISynth, why? Is it really so good? Better than adobe media encoder? Deinterlaced tools like motion e.t.c. I can find on my presets in PP (if I did that on editing or on export)

YES, it IS that good. I had to climbed mental mountains to make sense of *.avs scripts and what they can do, but it was worth every drop of sweat to be freed from such expensive and kvetchy stuff like boris uprez, or the exquisitely horrible jaggies ame does when up or downscaling. AVISynth is so good for a lot of video stuff, is free, and is indispensable to anyone who wants to jump into the video fray on any level above beginner. Have never looked back.
Somewhere in the web are Dan Isaac's presets sd2hd and hd2sd which may help you greatly for what you want to do as it did me.

[Yiota]

smrpix you wrote me to read the specifications but I read it too late I will speak to cameraman.
I feel you admire more Panasonic. Can I ask why or you 're gonna say the same with addu?
Well, he didn't choose the sd. He choosed to shot with canon. Another cameraman tried to shot (just for fun) with the panasonic without changing the quality. I loved some shots and I wanted to put them with the hd Footage.
All the things you wrote me are very very helpfull and I 'm already trying to check them.

turk690 thank you for your clear answer about AVISynth. I read so many articles about Sd to hd again and again and I did not take edge or see that exsists a standard way to do that. Many options but not a solution.

I hope my ugly english not tired you. Thanks again!!!

[smrpix]

I feel you admire more Panasonic.

I have nice things to say, and minor beefs, about both of those cameras. The Canon gets better pictures, mainly because of the lens and the larger sensor size. Ergonomically, the Panasonic is easier to work with because it is a video camera -- not a still camera shooting video. It's easier to hold, it's easier to get to the controls, and it doesn't overheat. But I'm not particularly fond of Panansonic's tendancy to go yellow/greenish in the highlights -- so much so that I actually prefer the canon when feasible.

That said, both cameras are excellent.

Also, to get back on point, both can shoot at various frame rates, bit rates and aspect ratios -- so you should coordinate those before shooting.

[Yiota]

It's bad that canon shots better picture than a video-camera. Panasonic HD footages don't make me happy

[smrpix]

You can have excellent control and excellent quality all in one package. It just costs a little more (see links below). What I find remarkable about both the canon and the panasonic and sony products as well, is how good they are for the price.

http://www.red.com/products
http://www.arri.com/camera/digital_cameras/
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-cinealta/

[2Bdecided]

Unless you are posting this to Youtube or something (or unless you shoot for Cinema), 25p/50i/50p should ALWAYS be both what you're shooting & what you're outputting from edits.

25p is perfect for YouTube. Shoot 24p or 25p if you want a film look. Shoot 50i or 50p if you want a video look (though it needs to be converted to 25p for Youtube - an easy conversion). Always shoot in HD.

30p is a bad choice if you might need 24p, and a lousy choice in Europe because you will need 25p or 50i for TV use. You can upload it to YouTube though.

SD is a stupid choice in 2013. It's not even good enough for YouTube.

Cheers,
David.

[Yiota]

Ok we are off topic and you telling me about sd. It was a mistake and now I want to put it on hd footage.

2Bdecided here in greece blueray discs are far from our needs. People still use dvd players. 30% still use crls. So, why I should shot in hd, even 720, when I must export it in sd with lower fields and pal? I don't think that hd to sd, upper to lower, will have a better result on dvd disc. I shot with panasonic 720*576 50fps and I give it to dvd disc.

Now I 'm going to make a short film that I shot with canon (FOR YOUTUBE) and I needed some help with that because I wanted to use some sd footages. Sd footages didn't shooted for the short film, but just for fun without changing the resolution. Unfortunately I want to use some of them and that's why I'm asking you for tips.
After that post, I updated my canon's firmware, I learned about avisynth (omg), I realised the stupidity of thinking to put 25fps with 30fps together and nothing could help me to put them together. So I will use only the canon's footage.

I love the world of filmaking and I think I want to get and give more and I hope I will do it well. Thank you for your time, now I 'm ready to post my new thread (I have more questions )

[poisondeathray]

2Bdecided here in greece blueray discs are far from our needs. People still use dvd players. 30% still use crls. So, why I should shot in hd, even 720, when I must export it in sd with lower fields and pal? I don't think that hd to sd, upper to lower, will have a better result on dvd disc. I shot with panasonic 720*576 50fps and I give it to dvd disc.

Even if you only deliver in SD, many people choose to do acquisition in HD or higher because of oversampling and reframing benefits. Higher quality, less noise, more flexibility to do things in post production

[smrpix]

I realised the stupidity of thinking to put 25fps with 30fps together and nothing could help me to put them together.)

It's done all the time in, for example, documentaries where there are no other options. It's perfectly acceptable as a creative choice. But it's never going to give a pristine seamless look.

[2Bdecided]

2Bdecided here in greece blueray discs are far from our needs. People still use dvd players. 30% still use crls. So, why I should shot in hd, even 720, when I must export it in sd with lower fields and pal? I don't think that hd to sd, upper to lower, will have a better result on dvd disc. I shot with panasonic 720*576 50fps and I give it to dvd disc.

If you do it properly, assuming the HD camera is a good camera, you generally get BETTER SD by shooting in HD. It will never be worse (unless your HD camera is worse than your SD camera, or unless you do lousy downconversion in your NLE), but it's future-proof, and looks far better on YouTube than native SD ever can.

Cheers,
David.

[2Bdecided]

I realised the stupidity of thinking to put 25fps with 30fps together and nothing could help me to put them together.)

It's done all the time in, for example, documentaries where there are no other options. It's perfectly acceptable as a creative choice.

Not in Europe. Really. It's 50i and 25p. No one originates in 30p over here (except amateurs using point-and-shoot cameras/phones locked to 30p).

We treat 50i and 25p as you (USA/NTSC-land) treat 60i and 24p. The video/film contrast is often used creatively. But we don't have an equivalent of 30p, and we don't use 30p.

Cheers,
David.

[smrpix]

2B, you're kind of missing my larger point in your technicalities, but cheers to you too.