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  1. Member Shilar's Avatar
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    I see a lot of info on how MVC is the way for 3D, but I actually have two questions:

    1. Is it possible to convert a 3D avi/mp4 to an MVC format? Maybe in mkv?

    2. What players could play an MVC file, both on the PC, and on the TV?
    MKV: Merely Krappy Video.

    Subbers, a request from an avid viewer: Either don't use mkv, or supply avi or mp4 as an alternative.

    For those frustrated with converting MKV: http://www.immortalmusic.net/mkv/
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  2. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    "The way"? No, it is ONE way for 3D, not the only by a long shot. It is best used for end-user storage & distribution, though also workable (using much higher bitrates) as an economical & backward-compatible shooting file format. It has its own strengths & weaknesses.

    1. MVC is a superset of MPEG4v10 aka AVC aka h.264. So anything that can contain an AVC video stream SHOULD be able to contain an MVC stream. This includes MP4, M2TS, MKV, possibly/probably even AVI & MOV. Not likely MPG2-PS, but who knows. Possible to convert a 3D file to MVC 3D file, sure, if you can afford an MVC encoder ($$$$). Of course, you have to prep the original 3D file so that the input to the encoder is compatible with the encoder. That depends alot on the source file & the encoder, so I can't give you any particulars right now.

    2. What players? Stereoscopic Player (or nVidia 3DVision player) on PC, maybe TMT or PowerDVD. Hardware support totally depends upon the TV. My LG 3DTV should support it, but I would guess there are 3DTVs out there that don't (possibly Sony & Samsung?...). Obviously, if the 3DTV was manufactured before MVC came out (~mid 2010), it wouldn't. Other hardware players are a crapshoot, even moreso than just the crapshoot of plain 3D support.

    I've got to ask: WHY? Why are you wanting to encode to MVC? First thing you should do is learn about the various 3D formats and their strengths and weaknesses and decide what is possible for you to work with now and in the near future...

    Scott
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  3. Member Shilar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    "The way"? No, it is ONE way for 3D, not the only by a long shot. It is best used for end-user storage & distribution, though also workable (using much higher bitrates) as an economical & backward-compatible shooting file format. It has its own strengths & weaknesses.

    1. MVC is a superset of MPEG4v10 aka AVC aka h.264. So anything that can contain an AVC video stream SHOULD be able to contain an MVC stream. This includes MP4, M2TS, MKV, possibly/probably even AVI & MOV. Not likely MPG2-PS, but who knows. Possible to convert a 3D file to MVC 3D file, sure, if you can afford an MVC encoder ($$$$). Of course, you have to prep the original 3D file so that the input to the encoder is compatible with the encoder. That depends alot on the source file & the encoder, so I can't give you any particulars right now.

    2. What players? Stereoscopic Player (or nVidia 3DVision player) on PC, maybe TMT or PowerDVD. Hardware support totally depends upon the TV. My LG 3DTV should support it, but I would guess there are 3DTVs out there that don't (possibly Sony & Samsung?...). Obviously, if the 3DTV was manufactured before MVC came out (~mid 2010), it wouldn't. Other hardware players are a crapshoot, even moreso than just the crapshoot of plain 3D support.

    I've got to ask: WHY? Why are you wanting to encode to MVC? First thing you should do is learn about the various 3D formats and their strengths and weaknesses and decide what is possible for you to work with now and in the near future...

    Scott
    Do you perhaps know of a way to create a full-frame 3D file? Half-height is ok, but do you not lose quality? I'm trying to file a file that can preserve the 3D channels without losing quality (heck, even preserved the audio on the files I'm saving). Difficulty: No Blu-ray version of these formats.
    MKV: Merely Krappy Video.

    Subbers, a request from an avid viewer: Either don't use mkv, or supply avi or mp4 as an alternative.

    For those frustrated with converting MKV: http://www.immortalmusic.net/mkv/
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Need more filespecs info...

    In general, yes, I do. But lots depends on what you have to start with.

    Scott
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  5. Member Shilar's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Need more filespecs info...

    In general, yes, I do. But lots depends on what you have to start with.

    Scott
    They are converted from field sequential DVDs with 5.1 audio.
    MKV: Merely Krappy Video.

    Subbers, a request from an avid viewer: Either don't use mkv, or supply avi or mp4 as an alternative.

    For those frustrated with converting MKV: http://www.immortalmusic.net/mkv/
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  6. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Ok, so you have FS DVDs. That's 720x480 (assuming NTSC since you're in USA). Or 720x240 per eye. And at reduced framerate (basically 29.97p). Not a LOT to work with.

    So, you use an AVISynth script to:
    1. separate the fields into 2 sub-field frames
    2. select every odd for Left view, every even for Right view
    3. Resize both views interpolating the missing lines
    4. Decide whether your 2 viewpoints' corresponding frames are Matching in Time or Sequential
    5. This will decide how you framerate convert (or not)-on both views. Also depends on what your target audience/devices are...
    6. Then do StackHorizontal (for 2xFullFrame) or HorizontalReduceBy2 followed by StackHorizontal (for Usual reduced-width SbS)

    Note that you will be losing quality due to:
    1. The Field-to-Frame Resize
    2. The FrameRate adjustment
    3. The Anamorphic horizontal reduction
    4. The actual Re-encoding itself.
    and possibly colorspace conversion (if it's necessary)

    You can improve the quality by NOT using SbS, but rather using T/B (top/bottom, aka Over/Under, Above/Below). It maintains the (already) anamorphic nature of the vertical dimension, so 2 processes can be immediately removed. It would go like this:

    1. separate the fields into 2 sub-field frames
    2. select every odd for Left view, every even for Right view
    3. Framerate adjust if necessary (on both views)
    4. StackVertical (Left,Right)

    This only loses quality in:
    1. FrameRate adjustment
    2. The re-encoding
    (and possible colorspace conversion)

    Notice I said nothing about audio, because that OUGHT to be left as-is. You can always use WAVSource & AudioDub to pass through the audio. Or, if you use ffmpeg, you can re-connect the audio there, without re-encoding.

    However, if your intention is to NOT lose quality, there is NO way to do a conversion of the type you are asking WITHOUT losing some quality. Are you sure the DVD source IS or WILL BE your only source option here?

    Scott
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  7. Member Shilar's Avatar
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    FS DVDs are the only option, and I have done the 3D separation without quality loss. I'm just looking for a codec/container that actually would utilize full-frame 3D, without it being an odd size (hint: not compatible with some 3D TVs). I was hoping MK3D would actually do a dual-video channel...
    MKV: Merely Krappy Video.

    Subbers, a request from an avid viewer: Either don't use mkv, or supply avi or mp4 as an alternative.

    For those frustrated with converting MKV: http://www.immortalmusic.net/mkv/
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  8. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    It can. I have created some. Just not many devices/apps support it. They mostly prefer Sbs or T/b type bacwards-compatible files.

    What do you mean by odd size?
    Scott
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