over sized blu ray 3d, can i make BDMV and burn a BD-DL

[samultoe]

A 3D blu ray id like to back up to a BD-DL disk is something along the lines of 90gb. is there a way to fit that main title only onto a BD-DL? I have several video conversion and blu ray burning/ripping software. is this even possible with current prosumer software?

thanks!

[Cornucopia]

It's only 90GB if you incorrectly rip it to FILES first instead of ripping to an ISO. Part of the enlargement of size has to do with the hard-links that are inherent to keep the 2D material (M2TS) from being duplicated in the 3D material (SSIF).

Is there a way to compact it (and keep it 3DBD)? None that are surefire, that I know of. All methods that have been PROVEN* to work involve re-encoding to other formats and/or using a lower resolution h.264 version.

Scott

(* this doesn't count the DVDFab's claim of doing a 3DBD-50 -> 3DBD-25 downgrade that is still untested, and has had MANY user problems with)

[fritzi93]

If you want to back it up intact and playable, then rip to ISO and burn with ImgBurn to a BD50 (double-layer) blank. That's it.

I tried DVDFab (3D BD50 to 3D BD25) with several discs and the results were not playable, at least on my LG BD670 player. With full disc, it would display the menu, then freeze. But you could try it if you're curious. You may get lucky and your player might accept it. Nevertheless, and judging by the quality of Fab's 2D encoding, the result won't be very good quality.

[samultoe]

what program would you suggest to rip to ISO?

and thank you so much for the quick and informative responce!

[samultoe]

im on a mac btw

[samultoe]

never mind, think i found it in DVDfab, then should i just burn with toast? unfortunately i have just enough knowledge on codex and burning etc to make me sound like i know what im talking about to friends

[fritzi93]

Ooh, I dunno the first thing about Macs, or Toast, and I don't think ImgBurn will run on it.

What I *can* tell you is that Blu-Ray must be burned using UDF 2.5 file system. ImgBurn will set the proper file system automatically, which is one reason why we recommend it here.

So unless or until a Mac guy replies, just make certain you're burning with UDF 2.5 setting.

Good luck.

[Cornucopia]

If you are using the Mac DVDFab and you rip to ISO, use Toast, as it fully supports burning ISOs. And the UDF filesystem is part of the data included in an ISO, so nothing should be necessary to set up regarding burning it in Toast. Burning an ISO correctly in any program results in the (user) data that's on the ISO being ported to the disc being burned - in EXACTLY the same order as is in the ISO.

Scott

[samultoe]

again, thanks so much for your help and swift responses.

so i figured it out, made an iso with DVDfab Blu-Ray Copy for mac of the 3D Blu-Ray 1:1 copy,
then i went to finder, opened the iso file, then used DiskUtility to burn that iso to a 50gig BD-DL!

i know that doesnt mean much to you prob, but hopefully it helps someone else!

couldnt have done it without ya

thanks

[Cornucopia]

You're welcome.
Yeah, DiskUtility would have also worked.

[juan71287]

Sorry to bud in,... but this seems like what I was interested in knowing. So, just a few clarifications if you guys dont mind.

1. The only way to RIP a 3D Blu-Ray and keep the 3D part of it, is to rip it to .ISO file? (What program to use?)
2. I used DVDFAB full disk 3D rip feature to rip my 3D collection. Are they useless now? Meaning, they cant be burned to a 25GB BD and be 3D?
3. After reading, there seems to not be any good way of ripping a 3D BR movie to shrink it to a 25GB BD and actually play on a 3D BR Player?

Thanks so much for the info.

[Cornucopia]

1. No, the only way to RIP, keep the quality and not grow the filesize is to rip to ISO. There are other ways to rip 3DBD, but they all result in either losing some quality, growing the filesize (per view) or both. If ALL you want to do is rip to ISO, DVDFab is probably the best. Others SHOULD work, but DVDFab's 3D ripper app clearly understands the complications involved in the existing hard links between the M2TS and the SSIF files. Others may not.
2. They are not useless if you burn them to BD50's and they are not useless if you decide later on to mount the ISO and convert to a lower quality alternative (as mentioned in #1). If your ONLY use for the 3DBD50 ISOs was to get them to similar quality BD25's, yes it they are probably useless.
3. There are good ways, but they involve Ripping + Decoding the MVC into 2 views and Re-encoding the 2 views into either 2 h.264 files or more likely one combined h.264 file that has been composited to use the SbS or T/B (aka O/U) layouts, and thus incurring quality loss through both the re-encoding and through the resizing. Those can be muxed into MP4 or MKV, etc. They can easily be played by many players (including possibly your TV itself), as on the surface, they would appear to be strangely-arranged simple 2D files. Then, you would have to manually "Turn On" your 3D and adjust it to use the correct layout.

*********************************************
[ASIDE]
Using the technical terms from broadcasting, a 3DBD is a forward-looking, "Service-Compatible" format, whereas the SbS and O/U files often encountered are "Frame-Compatible" formats. What it means is this:

Frame-compatible formats a built to be backward-compatible with existing, standard 2D setups. Thus, existing equipment has no problem using and/or passing them through (with a few minor exceptions having to do with compression). It is only the last stage - the display - where one must manually force the device to treat the incoming signal as a form of 3D. Up til that point, it is treated as 2D and there is nothing in the signal saying differently.

Service-compatible formats may have SOME amount of backward-compatibility, but for them to be able to correctly handle the 3D signal, they must get their software/firmware updated/enhanced to incorporate the additional information. Most of the time this comes in the form of additional user-data packets that are designated with more advanced headers than a normal 2D device would have understood. Thus, standard 2D devices just ignore (and often LOSE) the extra data that makes them truly 3D. Once the device has been updated, it either can correctly process the additional 3D info (along with the standard 2D info) or can pass them through unharmed. Since they "understand" the signal to be either 2D or 3D, they also now have the ability to SIGNAL this information further down the chain.

Thus SvcComp devices are "smarter" than FrmComp devices, and a display given this extra Signalling info can automatically go into (the CORRECT) 3D mode.
Also, SvcComp devices are inherently more able to retain higher quality than are the FrmComp devices.
Finally, and ultimately, SvcComp devices being given a 3D input can give 2D devices an clean 2D signal and 3D devices a clean 3D signal, whereas FrmComp devices being given a "3D" input can only just assume it's 2D, with no way to correct it to even show a clean (true monoscopic) 2D signal, let alone a 3D signal.
[/ASIDE]

********************************************

This whole ripping + downsizing/converting 3DBDs is not going to improve any time in the near future. I wish people would stop thinking it is as simple as 2D material. The MVC video codec used and the resultant SSIF layout in 3DBD are complicated and very protected IP, so the idea of having FOSS apps able to handle that kind of material is very unlikely. Without that, everything being done is after-the-fact workarounds.

Scott

[juan71287]

TY so much for the INFO. Now, I am not so big on the quality, because a lost of some quality on a BR is still freaking amazing compared to DVD.

Regarding #2. I didn't make the rip I made into .ISO. They are like a BR FULL COPY. So what I have a the CERTIFICATE folder and the BDMV. So, is there anything I can do to still make this work? Or again, are they useless and I have to rerip them into .ISO?

PS. DVDFAB didn't offer a rip option to .ISO, or am I just blind?

[Cornucopia]

DVDFab (the Bluray copy module) always has that as an option.

Since you don't care too much about quality, the simplest path from this point is to use either DVDFab (the BD3D Ripper module) or 3DBDBuster or SSIFSucka (maybe others) to extract the MVC from the SSIFs, decode to 2 views, and re-encode to h.264 (aka AVC) in MP4 or MKV format. If, of course, they don't like to use pre-ripped contents as their source, it would make sense to go back to the orignal 3DBD.
Your current BD-folder-on-a-hard-drive may be overly large compared to the original assets on the 3DBD, but it won't matter once you've done the conversion, because you will likely delete the source files at that point.

Scott

[Baldrick]

Moving you to our mac section.

[samultoe]

not that it matters, but i did end up using pavtube to rip the 3d bluray full disk copy, then used toast (disk utility failed me at some point or another) to copy to a 50gig blu ray. i say if you have the option to use a 50gig why not? its not much more expensive and you have an exact copy of the original.