Hauppauge HD PVR 2 issues

[jagabo]

Jagabo... I was wrong about not being able to downgrade from 1080p to 720p. It can be done. You can't go int to prog though so 1080i can only go 1/2 res and below 960x540 so it is only down scaling no conversion..

Thanks for that info. Hope you get your problems worked out. Do you have a 1080p60 source you can record? Could you verify if it's possible to record 108060 as 720p60? The Elgato Game Capture HD will only record it as 720p30.

[gll99]

Quick update. I was about to dismantle ... I'll post later the hell I went through. Last ditch try ... A genius move I might add... I switched out the USB cable they provided with the one that came with the 1212/1219 and voila the picture showed up in the ShowBiz window so I was able to cap some full clips...

Sorry I don't have 1080p/60 right now. I think it will leave the rate unchanged ie 1080p/60 will downscale framesize to 720p/60 since there is also another option to down the rate to 30, 15 etc.. and you can leave it as "source" as default. One nice feature is that you can downscale the audio sample rate and bitrate too if you want a smaller file size. One bad thing is that unlike the 1212 you can't power off the video view while capturing. I'm using driver version 1.3.31041.0 which came with the download called 1.6 on the Hauppauge site I know there is 1 more update to the driver v1_3_31062 and might try that after tonight but don't want to risk messing it now I need to capt tonight now that it's working well enough.

More later. Hope it helps now and possibly others in the future

[jagabo]

Sorry I don't have 1080p/60 right now. I think it will leave the rate unchanged ie 1080p/60 will downscale framesize to 720p/60 since there is also another option to down the rate to 30, 15 etc.. and you can leave it as "source" as default.

The Elgato is similar in the user interface. But it always decimates 1080p60 to 30 fps, no matter what res you downscale to. I suspect the circuit that does the downscale isn't powerful enough to downscale 60 1080p frames per second. Hauppauge's site says 1080p60 is capture at 1080p30. I suspect they use basically the same hardware as Elgato. I'm still hoping it's just a software oversight on the part of Elgato since their target market is gamers who want to upload to Youtube. They generally have no use for 1080p60 capture because all the online video sites will reduce 60p to 30p. And it's not practical to stream 60p over the internet.

One bad thing is that unlike the 1212 you can't power off the video view while capturing.

Can in minimize the capture program? What about the one-touch button? Does it work if the capture program is minimized? Will the capture program pop the the front?

I believe you can still use a capture graph and ARogan's rcTvCap to capture with no UI or display:

http://blog.arogan.com/2008/06/hauppauge-hd-pvr-model-1212.html

That was my preferred method with the 1212.

Thanks for all the details.

[gll99]

I'm glad you asked the questions... I tried the button and it didn't work at all even if the capt window has focus. It must be broken. wow 2 things wrong 1st the usb cable and now the button on the box.

The capture graph probably won't work as is but it's something to try later. I've used that too for the 1212 HDPVR

Will be off a few hours now ...later

[Brad]

Can you please screencap the main advanced settings menu in ShowBiz that displays the resolution options?

[gll99]

This is the screen in the version of the driver which I updated from the download site. It's the last available one v1.3.31062.0 and firmware version 4.0.0. I could be wrong but these options look the same as the original one I installed from the disc.



I may exchange the PVR tomorrow so won't be able to do much more until I connect the new one. You can't get to the driver unless the unit is plugged in.

[jagabo]

That dialog seems to imply it can record 1080p60 as 720p60. I wish I could find a definitive answer to this question.

[gll99]

Just to confirm. The simple capture graph works. I'm sure it will be possible to add complexity but I haven't tried yet.

[jagabo]

The simple capture graph works.

Great! Thanks once again.

[gll99]

That dialog seems to imply it can record 1080p60 as 720p60. I wish I could find a definitive answer to this question.

Can you confirm for me if the xbox360 outputs game play at 1080p/60 and if I can send that to the 1519 over hdmi without copy restrictions. If that would work I do own a xbox360 console but it's in another room. I'd have to move a lot of junk but I could run a test tomorrow if you can confirm it would work. I still have to go exchange my 1519 today.

[jagabo]

Can you confirm for me if the xbox360 outputs game play at 1080p/60 and if I can send that to the 1519 over hdmi without copy restrictions.

I know the xbox 360 can output 1080p60 (though it's usually upscaled from smaller rendered frame sizes). I think most games will work without HDCP. Secure video like NetFlix will require HDCP though.

[gll99]

I'm not a big gamer even though I have the Wii/U, xbox360 and the PS3 so that's why I don't know what it does. I thought the xbox360 might be ok but wasn't sure so didn't want to go through the hassle of moving it.

Give me a day or so and I'll run something for you unless someone jumps in with test results before I do.

[gll99]

@jagabo
It looks like getting 720p/60 from a 1080p/60 source won't work with the HD PVR2.

I don't see any setting that says I can set the output from the xbox360 to 60fps. In the console settings it just says HDMI 1080p with no reference to fps. I ran a game cap, set the 1280x720 option in ShowBiz and left the fps "as source". Unfortunately the output file came out 720p/29.97. I can't confirm 100% that the input was 60fps but there is a solid indication in the driver settings window. Look in the top right corner of the pic where it says "Source" Notice that this time compared to the image I posted earlier from my cable box which was 60 interlaced fps, now it says the source is 60 fps "P".

[jagabo]

Thanks gll99. I think you're right about the input being 1080p60. Unfortunate.

Can you tell what the downscaling algorithm is? The Elgato Game Capture HD uses a point resize (aka nearest neighbor). That leaves edges rather jagged, buzzing when in motion. Maybe the Hauppauge does better? Actually, I suspect they're both based on the same chips so the downscaling is likely to be the same.

[gll99]

Here is another graph I made adding the video and audio preview while capturing



Filters such as the Cyberlink ones were previously installed on my PC by other software. Alternatives would probably work also. I'm no expert but if anyone has questions on setting it up I will try to help.

Sorry jagabo but I have no idea how the resizing is done.

I'm purely guessing but to keep resource requirements low during capture they may as you say be dropping the nearest neighbour in both directions for progressive sources. In the case of interlaced the first drop is to 540 lines so maybe they just leave off one of the fields and drop nearest neighbour for width.

I still don't see the advantage of not keeping the 60fps when outputting 720p. The first update on the site contains a firmware update from v3.0.0 to v4.0.0 on top of a software and a couple of driver updates so if enough people push for it I'm sure they could do it easily with a firmware update. I'd also like them to provide the option to turn off the preview while capturing. Since they had it with the 1212/1219 HDPVR and we can capture without preview in a graph is should be easy to implement that in their software.

[jagabo]

Sorry jagabo but I have no idea how the resizing is done.

No problem. I just thought I'd ask.

I emailed Hauppauge tech support about recording 1080p60 as 720p60. I'm not sure they understood the question. They just said "The HD PVR2 can record at 480p60, 720p60, 1080i60, 1080p30."

[gll99]

Sorry jagabo but I have no idea how the resizing is done.

No problem. I just thought I'd ask.

I emailed Hauppauge tech support about recording 1080p60 as 720p60. I'm not sure they understood the question. They just said "The HD PVR2 can record at 480p60, 720p60, 1080i60, 1080p30."

If they provided a contact I'd try again and tell them that they didn't answer the question properly. Make sure they know that is not what you asked. This company is located in NY USA so N.A. English should not be a issue.

I'll try it too in a few days if they don't answer correctly

[jagabo]

Well, I went ahead and picked up the Hauppauge HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition (model 01480). The UI makes it look like the device supports recording of 1080p60 sources as 720p60 (select downscaling to 720p, keep source frame rate). But you were correct that it records them at 30 fps, even when downscaled to 360p. The resizing algorithm is better than the ElGato GameCapture HD*, it looks like a Bicubic resize. I'm not seeing the problem vaporeon800 had with interlaced sources. The scan lines are all in order. The record button on the box works, even with the software minimized (the Hauppauge Device Central Tray Tool must be running). The software doesn't pop to the foreground when the button is pressed. It just starts recording (about 5 seconds after the press) or stops recording. This is very convenient for my intended usage scenario (recording the output of Windows Media Center on the same computer that's running WMC).

I'll continue with my experiments and write a little more in a few days. Then I'll have to decide which device to keep and which to send back...

* I suspect ElGato decided to use a point resize because it looks sharper. They probably thought their target audience wouldn't notice all the rough, buzzing edges.

[Brad]

Hmm, did you update the firmware? I did that before I took any captures. I wonder if it's a bug introduced in a newer version.

[gll99]

Well, I went ahead and picked up the Hauppauge HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition (model 01480). The UI makes it look like the device supports recording of 1080p60 sources as 720p60 (select downscaling to 720p, keep source frame rate). But you were correct that it records them at 30 fps, even when downscaled to 360p. The resizing algorithm is better than the ElGato GameCapture HD*, it looks like a Bicubic resize. I'm not seeing the problem vaporeon800 had with interlaced sources. The scan lines are all in order. The record button on the box works, even with the software minimized (the Hauppauge Device Central Tray Tool must be running). The software doesn't pop to the foreground when the button is pressed. It just starts recording (about 5 seconds after the press) or stops recording. This is very convenient for my intended usage scenario (recording the output of Windows Media Center on the same computer that's running WMC).

I'll continue with my experiments and write a little more in a few days. Then I'll have to decide which device to keep and which to send back...

* I suspect ElGato decided to use a point resize because it looks sharper. They probably thought their target audience wouldn't notice all the rough, buzzing edges.

Good to know your unit worked well right out of the box. Even after I returned mine and got an exchange I still had problems with the USB cable they provided. It was even worse than the 1st one. When I switched to the one I already had with my original HD PVR1 the video window was fine. If someone told me they got 2 bad cables I'd suspect user error but I see it with my own eyes and I've run multiple tests switching the cable they provided in and out on 2 machines and it's flaky. It doesn't click / snap in tight like my own cable. Anyway I've accepted that cable issue for what it is but I still can't get the power switch on the box to work on either PC after using their cleanup utility and complete install as they suggested. That too is not a deal breaker for me and I'm inclined to believe it's a driver / setup problem rather than mechanical but won't sweat over it.

You're right there is a longer delay between capture start and stop even from the window panel than with the original HD PVR (1212 / 1219). It's practically impossible to do a clean start but I usually have to use the tsmuxer to change the format to a real .m2ts anyway so I just play the video first and take note of the start and end points and do a cut in that program at the same time.

I ordered the amplified 1 to 4 splitter box from China and hope it works so it saves me using component input for my main source. I'm not sure if the caps will look better or not over HDMI since they'll still be 1080i or 720p but it would help simplify my cable runs. The splitter should be here within a couple more weeks or so. If it works well I will probably use one of the HDMI outs from the splitter directly to my TV instead of the bypass because the HD PVR causes the bypass signal to go out and back in when it tries to lock itself onto the signal. That was never an issue with the original HD PVR (1212 / 1219)

[jagabo]

Hmm, did you update the firmware? I did that before I took any captures. I wonder if it's a bug introduced in a newer version.

I tried it in two computers. On the first I used the software on the CD that came with it, v1.5. On the second I used the latest software (v1.6) and driver (1.3.31062) at the Hauppauge web site:
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_hdpvr2.html

[jagabo]

I still can't get the power switch on the box to work

You mean the record button on the top of the unit? Do you have the Hauppauge Device Control tool running in the System Tray? That's what detects the button presses and sends messages to ArcSoft Showbiz to start/stop recording.

I ordered the amplified 1 to 4 splitter box from China and hope it works so it saves me using component input for my main source. I'm not sure if the caps will look better or not over HDMI since they'll still be 1080i or 720p but it would help simplify my cable runs.

I haven't tried the component input yet. I do have an old Blu-ray player with component out so maybe I'll try that at some point.

[Brad]

Well I'm glad whatever the issue I had is, it's not across the whole line.

Is there any way to capture composite on the HD PVR 2 without buying their $15 adapter online?

[gll99]

I still can't get the power switch on the box to work

You mean the record button on the top of the unit? Do you have the Hauppauge Device Control tool running in the System Tray? That's what detects the button presses and sends messages to ArcSoft Showbiz to start/stop recording.

I ordered the amplified 1 to 4 splitter box from China and hope it works so it saves me using component input for my main source. I'm not sure if the caps will look better or not over HDMI since they'll still be 1080i or 720p but it would help simplify my cable runs.

I haven't tried the component input yet. I do have an old Blu-ray player with component out so maybe I'll try that at some point.

Thanks for the tip about the software for the start / stop switch on the unit that exactly the problem. There's an issue with the program. It won't install properly or run on either of my computers. On one PC it partially installed but when I try to run it from the start menu it tells me that "HcwDCTrayTool.exe is not a valid win32 application". I never checked that because it is part of the upload to Youtube feature which I won't likely use. Same message happens if I try to start the service. I'm running xp sp3 so I don't know what the problem could be. I'll try and research it. Could it be trying to install the 64 bit version or a different Win version ie...W7? Maybe their installers have a bug. I used both the CD and v1.6 and have the same problem. I need someone who runs XP to confirm this for me. If you come across something please let me know.

[jagabo]

Is there any way to capture composite on the HD PVR 2 without buying their $15 adapter online?

Oh, I didn't notice the component adapter wasn't included. I guess I won't be running any test with component input!

[gll99]

Is there any way to capture composite on the HD PVR 2 without buying their $15 adapter online?

Oh, I didn't notice the component adapter wasn't included. I guess I won't be running any test with component input!

Did you mean composite? The component dongle came with the 1519 but not the composite one.

[gll99]

Thanks again jagabo:

I finally got the "start/stop capture" switch on top of the HD PVR2 to work. As I said, the problem was that part of the software wasn't completely installing. It wasn't obvious to me because it happened near the end of the install in a module I had no plans on using and wasn't aware was connected to the switch. The problem solving documentation is pretty sparse.

Anyway the actual problem was between my software firewall and the install module. Every time their program was installing unusual features to control or monitor input-output devices such as mouse / keyboard / the switch etc... the firewall warned me and asked if it was ok to proceed or not. Even though I always answered yes at some point whether it was caused by the temporary halt until I answered the prompt or by me not responding quickly enough one or more important steps were skipped so the application didn't install the needed component properly. Everything else worked fine so I had no clue where to look until jagabo commented about the memory resident app a few posts earlier. I disabled the firewall during the install and everything works fine now. It will even load the capture module from the desktop and run it if it isn't already started.

On another topic just in case no one noticed.... just like the HD PVR 1212 / 1219 you can load the capture module from a .bat file (or script) by putting this in the bat file "C:\Program Files\ArcSoft\TotalMedia ShowBiz\CaptureModule.exe" /@Recordvideo@
btw) The double quotes are necessary due to path length and of course if your path is different then change it to match.

[jagabo]

Is there any way to capture composite on the HD PVR 2 without buying their $15 adapter online?

Oh, I didn't notice the component adapter wasn't included. I guess I won't be running any test with component input!

Did you mean composite? The component dongle came with the 1519 but not the composite one.

Sorry, I misidentified the cable when I looked at it (it was in a dark room). The HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition does come with a component adapter cable (red, green, blue, RCA connectors, plus red and white RCA audio).

Thanks for the top about running the recording module directly.

[gll99]

Just to clarify for anyone who reads this later... although you load the Capture Module with the line I showed previously in a bat file it won't actually start the capture. It would be handy to find out if there are other command line options. It's something I've never researched before to see if any others have ever been posted.

[LightWeightProducer]

The arcsoft capture module can be run independantly of the main software [command line - capturemodule.exe -startr2:"name.ts" -limit:1800 -vinput:1 -cbr:1 -vbaver:8000 -aoutfmt:1 -abindex:512 -folder:"c:\recordings" ]. '1800' = capture time in minutes. The process can be killed to end the capture if operation via a script is desired.

There almost certainly is, as I found out in my post about the software when bundled with Avermedia hardware. Set up a scheduled recording and then once it has started peek at the command line using task manager [win7] or 3rd party tools.