Audio out of sync on animation

[brusno]

Hi.
I use Staxrip for converting to mp4. And it does a good job at it. I have tested it on ordinary films and the result was excellent. But...then I tried to convert animation films, and the audio was out of sync!
Does anyone know why this is so?
In my example of converting ; PAL 720x576, 4:3 (anamorphic), SAR=5:4, DAR=4:3, PAR=1.067. Using x264 codec at 2-pass and 1200 kb/s. Original audio: 448 kb/s AC3 6 channels, 48kHz; converting to 192 kb/s AAC Stereo, 48kHz.

[aedipuss]

try some other converter. there are lots of free ones in the tools section. vidcoder is one of my favorites.

[brusno]

try some other converter. there are lots of free ones in the tools section. vidcoder is one of my favorites.

I have set up Handbrake to make a conversion on it now. As I understand, vidcoder is using Handbrake to convert too .
Handbrake is my second favourite, so it'll be interesting to see if it can do a better job concerning audio-sync on animation.

[theewizard]

you didnot specify any file info about the original animation , you are trying to convert
i wonder if it is VFR 'variable frame rate'

this makes it difficult to keep audio in sync

[brusno]

Looks like it is variable bit-rate on the original.

The framerate however is constant. I believe it is constant on all DVD. 25 fps in this case.

I also use CFR on the mp4 file.

Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 21mn 54s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 6 532 Kbps
Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : Variable
Duration : 21mn 54s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 866 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.469
Stream size : 763 MiB (74%)
Color primaries : BT.601 PAL
Transfer characteristics : BT.470 System B, BT.470 System G
Matrix coefficients : BT.601
Audio #1
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 21mn 54s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 3ms
Stream size : 70.2 MiB (7%)

[aedipuss]

not related. vbr is not the same as vfr. dvds are constant frame rate only, and from the details i'd guess it's a dvd. there shouldn't be any problem making a decent mp4.

[brusno]

When converted in Handbrake, then the audio and picture was in sync!

But it is strange that staxrip didn't manage this movie.
I'm enclosing data for the handbrake rip, and the staxrip rip:

Handbrake conversion:

Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 1.16 GiB
Duration : 1h 59mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 396 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2013-02-19 22:01:18
Tagged date : UTC 2013-02-19 23:37:51
Writing application : HandBrake 0.9.8 2012071700

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1h 59mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 200 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Original display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.116
Stream size : 1 023 MiB (86%)
Writing library : x264 core 120
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=1200 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=3 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Encoded date : UTC 2013-02-19 22:01:18
Tagged date : UTC 2013-02-19 23:37:51
Color primaries : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 1h 59mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 340 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 80ms
Stream size : 164 MiB (14%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2013-02-19 22:01:18
Tagged date : UTC 2013-02-19 23:37:51

Staxrip conversion:

Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 1.16 GiB
Duration : 1h 59mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 394 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2013-02-19 17:47:11
Tagged date : UTC 2013-02-19 17:47:11

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1h 59mn
Bit rate : 1 174 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 8 517 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Original display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.113
Stream size : 1 001 MiB (84%)
Title : Video
Writing library : x264 core 128 r2216 198a7ea

Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=1174 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Encoded date : UTC 2013-02-19 17:47:11
Tagged date : UTC 2013-02-19 17:47:55

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 1h 59mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 217 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 261 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 80ms
Stream size : 185 MiB (16%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2013-02-19 17:47:49
Tagged date : UTC 2013-02-19 17:47:55

Is there any differences between these 2, which can explain why one is out of sync while the other is not?

[aedipuss]

is it out of sync by the same amount the whole video or in sync and then getting out of sync by more as the video goes on?

[brusno]

Same amount through the whole movie. The sound is coming a fraction of a second before the picture.

[brusno]

When I think of it.....the vob-files are being loaded in different ways of Staxrip and Handbrake. In Staxrip I choose the vob-files directly by marking only those which is the main film. While in Handbrake, I only specify the folder, and then it chooses the main film by itself. In those occasions where "out of sync" have occured, then the complete DVD has been on the harddrive (anyDVD). When the audio has been in sync, then only main movie has been on harddrive, stripped from menys and extras (DVD Shrink and DVD cloner).
Note that only mp4 has been out of sync. Never the original DVD on harddrive.

[hech54]

Two lessons learned.
1) Stop messing with VOB files. Always work from the DVD level.
2) Audio sync problems do not become worse or even different in "animated" material. A DVD is a DVD.

[brusno]

Ok, problem solved. Thanks for all help.
It was what I suspected; that Staxrip didn't synchronized audio and picture properly, when choosing VOB-files from complete anyDVD rip. Only when choosing from "movie only"-rips, Staxrip will do allright.
So when I processed a complete anyDVD rip with DVD Shrink (choosing movie only) and stored it in a second folder, then I can use Staxrip on it.

And as mentioned before; Handbreak did the job in both cases.

I hope the creator of Staxrip adds the possibility of just choosing the VIDEO_TS folder instead of picking out all the VOB files which make the movie.

[brusno]

Well, it wasn't that simple. I have discovered films with audio out of sync with "movie only" too.
But I think I have isolated the problem. I demuxed audio and video in DGIndex and the audio is out of sync! The sound starts at 3 sec. in the film, while in the .ac3 file demuxed by DGIndex, the sound starts at 1.42 sec. And StaxRip uses DGIndex to demux audio and video! Which leads to audio-out-of-sync in StaxRip too.

Is there any tips for getting DGIndex to demux audio in sync?

[manono]

Is there any tips for getting DGIndex to demux audio in sync?

It's not a DGIndex problem but a decryption problem. However, you may be able to work around the problem by using the '[' button in DGIndex to start some frames in from the beginning. The problem is that after being decrypted there are some unreferenced cells without audio still left in the video. When playing the DVD those cells are skipped. When decrypted those cells are still in there and screw up the synch.

Something else to try is running the decrypted DVD through FixVTS which should find and remove the unreferenced cells.

[brusno]

Now I've tried a solution that worked. I re-encoded the .ac3 sound in MeGUI, and added a delay (the difference in sec.). I re-encoded to .ac3 using the ffmpeg choice in MeGUI. And then I used the fixed audio in StaxRip when encoding the video. Finally I got a video with the audio (aac) in sync! I converted the sound to aac in StaxRip.

[manono]

Now I've tried a solution that worked. I re-encoded the .ac3 sound in MeGUI, and added a delay (the difference in sec.). I re-encoded to .ac3 using the ffmpeg choice in MeGUI. And then I used the fixed audio in StaxRip when encoding the video. Finally I got a video with the audio (aac) in sync! I converted the sound to aac in StaxRip.

You reencoded AC3 audio just because you wanted to add a delay? You could have used DelayCut on the original AC3 to get rid of the delay without reencoding it.

[brusno]

Yes, I had to ADD delay, because the original audio .ac3 (demuxed from DGIndex) began playing too early comparing to the video in the encoded .mp4 file. I tried DelayCut, and it was very easy too add the delay there. And it processed much faster too, thank you for the tips

[brusno]

Today I noticed something on some of my ripps. When I look at the vob files with GSpot, it states BOTH BFF and TFF for the video! And in other ripps that I checked GSpot states TFF only. It made me think that maybe it is those videos which have both TFF and BFF which give audio-out-of-sync when demuxed in DGIndex. Because I also get the message: "a field order transition was detected" for these videos in DGIndex.

[manono]

No, that wouldn't account for the out of synch audio by itself. However, it could possibly mean unreferenced cells or even PGCs joined together with the main movie as I mentioned in an earlier post. And [i]that[/] could easily account for out of synch audio. One possible way to fix that is something I mentioned earlier - begin making the D2V some ways in from the beginning and skipping over the unreferenced black cells.

Or maybe the illegal field order switch is elsewhere in the movie and then it wouldn't have any bearing at all on the audio becoming out of synch.