Problems Encoding the OC Season 1 DVDs

[nesburf]

Hi all,

I'm attempting to rip my own copies of the OC season 1 dvds and am having some trouble. I can't seem to get a proper IVTC. It seems as if theres is a mixture of interlaced and progressive frames in each episode.

When I select force film in DGIndex and run a preview, the FILM percentage never gets higher than 91%-92%.

I've tried a few AVIsynth IVTC filters such as telecide(1).decimate() and uncomb().decimate(), but i'm still getting the occasional interlacing lines in the encoded video.

Has anyone ripped these dvd's before and have some insight?

Thanks

[hello_hello]

Are you using force film when you create the index file? I'm in PAL-land so I only have a basic understanding of NTSC stuff, but my understanding is force film gets DGIndex to serve up the entire video as progressive, which isn't so good for the 9% or so which is actually 29.970fps interlaced and won't allow the ITVC filter to do it's thing.

I think this is right (no force film when indexing).
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/TDecimate

tfm(order=-1).tdecimate(hybrid=1)

tfm does the field matching and recovers the progressive frames. For the "order" value, 0 = top field first, 1 = bottom field first, -1 = I don't know.
"hybrid" tells tdecimate how to treat hybrid video. 1 = blend decimation of 30p sections into 24p. A value of 3 does it the other way around.


According to the instructions, decomb would do the same thing like this:
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Decomb

AssumeTFF().Telecide(guide=1).Decimate(mode=3, threshold=2.0)

Use AssumeBFF() for bottom field first, or leave it out altogether for varying field order or if you don't know.

[nesburf]

Hmm Tried both those and still was getting a lot of combing in the title sequence. Thats where all the video portions of the show seems to be.

[jman98]

Your thread title says you are having problems ripping, yet that doesn't seem to be correct as it seems that you really have already ripped and you are trying to do processing on the rip and that is where the problem is. Unfortunately your failure to accurately describe your problem may be preventing you from getting help as your subject may make some of our more experienced members just skip this.

Unfortunately a lot of people use "rip" to mean "convert". DVDFab does this too. It's really unfortunate. Rip means ONLY to copy (and decrypt if necessary) the contents of DVD, CD, BD to a hard disk without change. It seems that you have been fooled by this common usage and you are actually having a conversion issue. I don't care enough about ITVC to be able to help you as I have a canned AviSynth script I use for this sort of thing and I'm just not picky enough to go through videos frame by frame. If you don't get help, post again in a few more days but please do NOT use "rip" in your subject if this is a conversion/encoding issue. Around here we demand that people use the terms correctly if they want help.

[poisondeathray]

Is the combing always limited to the intro, or does some make it's way into the main episode ?

[nesburf]

my apologies jman98. I should have said problems encoding, not ripping.

Posion, these issues only seem to affect the main titles.

If the mods want to move this to the proper forum, by all means.

[Baldrick]

The dvd ripping forum is for both ripping and conversion from dvds so it's okey.

Nope, I have no more tips....other than answer poissons question.

[manono]

How about an untouched sample from a section that gives you the problem? Without one we can only guess. 10 seconds should be plenty.

[hello_hello]

Hmm Tried both those and still was getting a lot of combing in the title sequence. Thats where all the video portions of the show seems to be.

I love it when I ask questions while trying to offer detailed help, only to have to ask a second time.
Were you using force film when creating the index file? If so, did you delete the index file and create a new one without it?

[nesburf]

Sorry, my apologies again. I have been trying with Honour Pulldown Flags, not force film. I tried force film at the beginning, but when I saw that the FILM portion never got above 92%, I started using Honour Pulldown Flags.

Here is a link to the opening titles. You'll see the biggest issue is at around 14 seconds in.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/d837dn

This is a straight unedited version, I know its an MPG file but I just demuxed the vob and muxed the videostream into a program mpg file.

[jagabo]

Who cares about the opening titles? They are usually just a bunch of quick shots so you won't really even notice if it's jerky or not. Just use honor pulldown flags in DgIndex, TFM().TDecimate() in AviSynth. If you still get some comb artifacts in the titles follow up with vinverse().

Oh, got your sample now. I see it has lots of smooth panning shots. But still, who cares if they get jerky? It's just the opening credits. It's the body of the video that counts.

If you really can't stand to have jerky opening credits use a smart bob and encode at 59.94 fps. Or use VFR encoding (but I just hate VFR).

Wow, this shit is on the DVD! (simple bob):

There's no fixing that. If the studio doesn't care about the opening credits why should you!

[poisondeathray]

wow that's terrible QC on the OC intro !

no way to "automatically" fix, short of manually reconstructing bits (e.g you can roto parts from other frames, using masks, in after effects, photoshop . You can use interpolation methods to reduce the amount of work required, but it's still a lot of work)

I wonder if the blu-ray version of the intro is like that ?

[nesburf]

wow that's terrible QC on the OC intro !

no way to "automatically" fix, short of manually reconstructing bits (e.g you can roto parts from other frames, using masks, in after effects, photoshop . You can use interpolation methods to reduce the amount of work required, but it's still a lot of work)

I wonder if the blu-ray version of the intro is like that ?

Ahh not worth it for just the opening titles.

There are no blu-ray releases yet of this show, although I would be interested to see what they do with that. It's interesting that they mixed video elements into the intro of the show. I know this show was shot on 16mm film at 24p, but would it have been edited in a 29.97 video framerate with a hard telecine for broadcast? I assume most shows these days are edited at their native framerate and then sent to the broadcasters with a telecine added.

[poisondeathray]

Ahh not worth it for just the opening titles.

There are no blu-ray releases yet of this show, although I would be interested to see what they do with that. It's interesting that they mixed video elements into the intro of the show. I know this show was shot on 16mm film at 24p, but would it have been edited in a 29.97 video framerate with a hard telecine for broadcast? I assume most shows these days are edited at their native framerate and then sent to the broadcasters with a telecine added.

It should have been edited as 23.976 progressive from the original film scans. Laziness and poor QC here suggest they produced from some already telecined lower quality version

On this version - They didn't remove the telecine before editing (normally that can be ok if you keep everything interlaced; the worst that can happen is you get a cadence break and some garbage combing on transitions). The bigger problem here is they resized while it was still interlaced, and not in an interlace aware fashion - that's why you get those thick bands in the jagabo's screenshot

If they didn't have access to the original film scans, only a broadcast version - the proper thing to do would be to remove the pulldown before editing, so everything progressive, then to add pulldown (telecine) back to make the retail DVD

[nesburf]

Was able to view a PAL version of the show, its even an issue on that as well. They really messed up this show it seems. Wonder what the Blu-Rays will look like.

[jman98]

Was able to view a PAL version of the show, its even an issue on that as well. They really messed up this show it seems. Wonder what the Blu-Rays will look like.

If they haven't put them out by now, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Amazon's reported sales ranking of this doesn't make me inclined to think that WB will put it out on BluRay.

[jagabo]

The intro sequence is a mix of film, video, and 30i title overlay. That's not unusual for shows in that era.

[poisondeathray]

An even if they put it out on Blu-ray, they probably will put in a half ass effort into it. Probabaly upscale the SD version LOL . It's been know to happen before!

What jman98 says is right - it will be sales (or predicted sales) that motivates their decision

Are the intros to the other seasons the same or different ?

If you're a big fan, you can fix up the intro. It's not *that* bad, since it's only the intro . It could have been worse - they could have botched the main episodes too. If you have the collection or box set, you can even find the corresponding footage to the "bad" parts in the intro, and mask over those parts