news from CES (?)

[Seeker47]

which reports I've been following -- very briefly -- online. The one thing that caught my attention, relating to home video, was announcement of new display standards supposedly "Four times better resolution than today's HDTV." But, new hardware requirements aside, how are we supposed to be viewing this, any time in the next couple years ? At the moment, I have DirecTV, which should be up there with any of its competitors, and they max out at 1080i. I think some of their VOD offerings -- which must fully download to your receiver's hard drive, before you can view it -- is at 1080p.

O.K., so where is the infrastructure for a resolution 4 X better than that ? (And maybe another good question is, "Would we really notice a significant difference, if this was being piped into our living rooms ?") These press releases make for great copy, but I'm thinking, 'Don't hold your breath.'

[aedipuss]

same comments were made when hdtv and bluray first started out.

[jman98]

Seeker47 - It's a good question. The technology is known, for now, as 4K. So if you see references to that, that's what they're talking about.

Here's the problem. Sometimes companies come up with great ideas too early. One example arguably is laserdisc. Very few people bought players or discs, but the quality was fantastic for the time in which it came out. The cost was simply too high. The players were expensive for their time and the inability to do anything but play on it (no recordings) turned people off. Had it come out later and the cost been lower, perhaps it would have survived.

There's basically no content for 4K right now. I know of exactly one independent video available in 4K (and 2K and BluRay and lower), but I've got nothing to play it on even if I got a copy. None of my monitors go above 1920x1080 or something barely above that. I'm sure that given the bit rates used on 1080p BluRay that 4k video is going to take bit rates that seem insanely high compared even to BluRay right now. Consumers will need new TVs to display it. They won't be cheap. There will have to be a successor format to BluRay to handle it with even larger storage sizes. So basically 4k is telling consumers who are already reluctant to buy into HDTV and BluRay that "You're going to need to throw away everything you've already bought and buy new ones". Not going to happen. Given that HDTV and BluRay adoption rates have been below what the market hoped for, I don't see 4k as having a snowball's chance in hell of catching on for at least 10 years. Keep in mind too that while I do not know this for a fact, I suspect that even with remastered videos for BluRay that many are not available at resolutions above 1080p, so that will require re-scanning and re-mastering for 4k. I think 4k is being driven right now by clueless manufacturers who misunderstand consumers. And as you point out, where is the infrastructure for this? The current VOD offerings are enough of an infrastructure nightmare already. There's no standard that I know of for 4k and without standards to agree upon, this could easily descend into chaos with a bunch of incompatible offerings flooding the marketplace, leaving consumers angry and unwilling to adopt it.

[smrpix]

Seeker,
4K is currently being used for digital cinema. If your local multiplex has digital projection they may be using that -- more likely 2k. No one knows if it will ever invade the home market. I wouldn't be too concerned right now unles you're really eager to impress your friends.

[MOVIEGEEK]

They are working on the HEVC to be used on 4K UHDTV's, it will be a long time before the studios and cable co's start using it(if ever).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding

What I read online about the new UHDTV's is they will upscale any content to 4K, the videos I watched looked impressive. All the major brands will be releasing 4K TV's this year at a premium price($16,000-25,000USD).

[Seeker47]

@jman98,

Thanx for that well-stated reply. I gather that CES is really a TRIP. Never quite made it there, always was curious to. (Though a lot of it seems like a "Let's blow a huge chunk of green to show off some {likely} pointless new tech, just for the bragging rights" on the part of the Mfr.s.)

Good focus on the Laserdisc example. Be wary of early adoption on new tech. A lot of it gets orphaned early, to the dustbin of tech history. (That said, there was quite a bit of rare material that came out -- briefly -- on LD only. Great for those collectors who might not have flinched at $40. to $60. per disc prices.) But now you'd have to transfer it to DVD, BR, or HDD, for longer-term archival purposes.

They are working on the HEVC to be used on 4K UHDTV's, it will be a long time before the studios and cable co's start using it(if ever).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding

What I read online about the new UHDTV's is they will upscale any content to 4K, the videos I watched looked impressive. All the major brands will be releasing 4K TV's this year at a premium price($16,000-25,000USD).

But you have to ask WHY, in this still very dubious economy ? For a mfr. to be able to say "See, We're a MAJOR player !" (?) Hey, Pioneer was certainly able to say that, back in the Kuro days of 6 - 7 K$ 50" monitors. But where are they now ?

You know, I could probably even spring for one of those 4K TV's. But then I'd probably have to be committed straightaway to the Laughing Academy.

[MOVIEGEEK]

You know, I could probably even spring for one of those 4K TV's. But then I'd probably have to be committed straightaway to the Laughing Academy.

To be fair HDTV's were expensive when they came out but just a few years later they were affordable.

On a side note: OLED is having problems with quality control, I read one report that only 20% of the panels make it to the assembly line.

[fritzi93]

This has been a hot topic over at the AVS forum.

A few points that seem to be generally agreed on:

1) The tech for 4k (or UHD, whatever) in LCDs is practical now and entails no great cost penalty, once the initial re-tooling is done.
2) There's no content, apart from the server loaded with some movies offered by Sony with their insanely priced set they're showing at CES. Supposedly the BD Association is working on amendments to the Blu-Ray spec, to include the new HEVC (H265) codec and perhaps extra layers. Then there's the Red Ray player. But for now, the prospect of native content consists only of rumors.
3) 4k is only going to show picture quality improvement at really big display sizes and close viewing distance, obviously. (> 70"?) Whether upconversion of 1080p material shows any worthwhile benefit is hotly debated.
4) Nevertheless, passive 3D will indisputably benefit from true 1080p for each eye.
5) It's coming regardless for the really large sets. See point one.

[Seeker47]

This has been a hot topic over at the AVS forum.

A few points that seem to be generally agreed on:

1) The tech for 4k (or UHD, whatever) in LCDs is practical now and entails no great cost penalty, once the initial re-tooling is done.
2) There's no content, apart from the server loaded with some movies offered by Sony with their insanely priced set they're showing at CES. Supposedly the BD Association is working on amendments to the Blu-Ray spec, to include the new HEVC (H265) codec and perhaps extra layers. Then there's the Red Ray player. But for now, the prospect of native content consists only of rumors.
3) 4k is only going to show picture quality improvement at really big display sizes and close viewing distance, obviously. (> 70"?) Whether upconversion of 1080p material shows any worthwhile benefit is hotly debated.
4) Nevertheless, passive 3D will indisputably benefit from true 1080p for each eye.
5) It's coming regardless for the really large sets. See point one.

Yup. Seems to be.

http://dottech.org/95160/japan-will-start-worlds-first-4k-tv-broadcasts-in-2014-then-8k-in-2016/

But I'm still waiting for something that was a staple of sci-fi: projected, possibly holographic 3D displays for which no glasses were needed (and sometimes no discernible screen, or apparatus), with a degree of lifelike verisimilitude that could make it hard to distinguish from reality. Probably not in our lifetimes, though.