Do I need multiple TBCs?

[shaynestacy]

Hi Everyone,
I'm new here. Shayne from Sacramento- good to meet you all!
I have hundreds of VHS to convert to DVD. I want to do it with as high quality as possible without breaking the bank. I have my Core i7 system and a Canopus ADVC300. I used a consumer VCR and I was not happy with the results, so I now have a JVC HR-S9911U on the way to me.
My question to you all is this: The 9911 supposedly has an integrated TBC, as does the ADVC300. On top of all that, I have an AV Tool AV-8710T sitting on my shelf. Do you think I really need another TBC(the 8710T) in my setup? I see that the AV-8710T seems to have more specific adjustment options, so that may help. I am converting many 1st, 2nd gen and even worse VHS tapes.
Please let me know. I appreciate the help! You'll be seeing some cool stuff on DIME soon enough.
Shayne

[manono]

The ADVC300 either has a very weak TBC or none at all. I have and use that same unit and find its TBC useless (if there is one).

You definitely need the one in the JVC VCR. You may or may not need the frame TBC in the AVT-8710. I also have that unit and more times than not I don't use it. It's a different kind of TBC than that in your JVC and there will be times when you'll be glad you have it, especially if any of your tapes are retail tapes with Macrovision. Have you read this page yet:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html

As I understand it, TBCs don't work on 2nd generation and beyond tapes.

What's DIME?

[shaynestacy]

I had not read that before. Thanks for the info.

[orsetto]

The "TBC" built into VCRs like the JVC 9911 isn't as significant as the "DNR" filters they are coupled with. The TBC half of the JVC "DigiPure" system can be mildly helpful with problem tapes, or it can cause a big honking conflict when used in combination with external TBCs such as those built into PC boards or the AVT-8710. The DNR half of the system has much more useful effect, cleaning up messy color strobing and noise for every tape. It is very unfortunate that the TBC and DNR features cannot be used independently: they're both on or both off. When working with crummy multi-generational VHS tapes, you sometimes need the full-strength abilities of the external AVT-8710 but would still like to get the benefit of the JVC DNR filters. Alas, you're stuck with the JVC TBC piggybacking along for the DNR ride, and multiple TBCs in series don't always play nice together- especially with lousy LP or EP/SLP tapes.

You'll have to experiment with some of your tougher tapes to see what combination of DNR and/or various TBCs gives the best result. This can vary considerably from tape to tape, so there is no hard-and-fast rule. Some tapes go completely wonky with any TBC applied, others will benefit from all three simultaneously (JVC, AVT, and Canopus). DNR often works great with SP tapes but can make a mess of poor-quality LP or EP tapes, adding artifacts like fake white dropout dashes. I juggle several brands of VCR with different flavors of TBC/DNR as well as a DataVideo TBC1000 external TBC: it can get very tedious running tests for the best hookup and after awhile I get punch drunk trying to decide. As a very crude rule of thumb, if the tape isn't SP speed I don't waste my time anymore trying different hardware matchups: LP and EP/SLP go straight into a good-quality consumer-grade VCR. The effect of TBC/DNR on slow speed tapes, esp second generation, is so unpredictable it can change from scene to scene. I'm not prepared to break down each tape dub into separate scenes, I have way too many tapes to transfer and don't expect to live another century.

Your own tapes may react differently, theres no telling until you receive the JVC 9911 and run your own tests. In any case, keep the AVT-8710: you never know when you'll need it for the odd tape with genuine or "faux" copy protection (some tape defects can trigger a CP reaction in some encoder boards, even if no copy protection is embedded in the tape). The AVT-8710 can also help maintain audio lipsync in some instances, and will help if you ever encounter a record lockout signal from your cable or satellite decoder box. These are issues that can only be treated with a dedicated external TBC like the AVT.

[shaynestacy]

Orsetto,
Thanks. That was both awesome and horrifying advice. I've heard that analog conversion is a pain in the @ss, and the above makes it apparent. Almost all of my tapes are in SP mode, but your reply & manono's seal the deal- I am keeping the AVT-8710 and will test my results with each tape before converting.
Thank You-
Shayne