x264 BDs (compatibility with Panasonic players) and TrueHD issues

[Anonymous344]

I have a problem creating x264 BDs that play in Panasonic players. This is my command line.

x264.exe --crf 16 --tune film --bluray-compat --vbv-maxrate 40000 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --level 4.1 --keyint 24 --open-gop --slices 4 --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709" --sar 1:1 -o "output.mkv" "input.avs"

Can anyone see any problems? The result was remuxed with tsmuxer and plays on my Sony player, but not on my Panasonic.

Perhaps the problem might be the audio, which is a TrueHD track with a THD+AC3 extension. Can this be muxed as is? To make tsmuxer see the file, I have to go to All files(*.*). I understand the concept of a TrueHD track with a core, but I'm not sure about the file extension. That said, the Sony player picks up the TrueHD track without any problems.

Here are the encoding settings from Mediainfo.

cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / slices=4 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=1 / weightp=1 / keyint=24 / keyint_min=1 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=24 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=16.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=40000 / vbv_bufsize=30000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=vbr / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

[Selur]

Can this be muxed as is?

yes, typically .thd or .ac3 is used, but the extension should not really matter.

Also you might want to output to .264 instead of mkv.

Settings should be Blu-ray conform, you can try to
a. disable weightp: --weightp 0
and/or
b. remove --open-gop

also since I'm not sure to what b_pyramid=1 patches add '--b-pyramid strict'

[Anonymous344]

Thanks for the info about TrueHD.

I might try to disable weightp and use "--b-pyramid strict", but I notice that MeGUI's Blu-ray output also uses these settings and feel sure that it wouldn't if there were compatibility problems. I definitely have x264 encoded Blu-rays that use open gop and play on Panasonic players.

May I ask why outputting to MKV might be an issue? I don't see how the container could affect compatibility after a remux.

[Selur]

Oh missed the mkv container thing.
You problem than is probably related to the header removal compression, but I don't know if MeGui disables it by default or if it has an option for it.

[poisondeathray]

If those suggestions still don't work, some people recommend uncheckmarking "add picture structure" in tsmuxer, because it overwrites some HRD values. (Tsmuxer isn't a strict blu-ray compliant muxer)

May I ask why outputting to MKV might be an issue?

In pro authoring tools , it's definitely causes a problem putting it into a container. It overwrites sequence headers . Do as selur suggested

I might try to disable weightp and use "--b-pyramid strict", but I notice that MeGUI's Blu-ray output also uses these settings and feel sure that it wouldn't if there were compatibility problems.

I remember in the past it definitely causes problems with some Panasonic models . Do a quick search for more info





note maybe blu-ray players can play non compliant streams, but I would still follow "best practice" guidelines

[Anonymous344]

Do as selur suggested

Oh, I shall do, but I always like to know why I am doing what I'm doing, so that I learn.

[note maybe blu-ray players can play non compliant streams, but I would still follow "best practice" guidelines

I always try to do so because I know this from many years of MPEG-2 encoding. It's just that I don't have much experience encoding Blu-rays and would be very surprised to learn that MeGUI's Blu-ray setting is in some way non-compliant.

Is there an alternative to tsmuxer that is fully compliant? Thanks for your suggestion about disabling picture structure, which I assume refers to the "Add picture timing info" option.

Thank you both very much for your help.

[poisondeathray]

would be very surprised to learn that MeGUI's Blu-ray setting is in some way non-compliant.

There were some problems with some of the megui profiles in the past (some of the 720p profiles), they were reported long time ago, not sure if they were fixed .

Use these for reference
https://sites.google.com/site/x264bluray/home
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154533

although x264 produces compliant streams - verified by several studio verifiers - that doesn't mean your particular model is going to work. Some firmware "updates" actually cause compatibility problems, even with retail BD's

Some older players used chips actually didn't follow the BD specs . Disabling weightp fixed many of those problems with those 1st gen players

Is there an alternative to tsmuxer that is fully compliant? Thanks for your suggestion about disabling picture structure, which I assume refers to the "Add picture timing info" option.

DVDLogic Easy BD Lite (the free version)

Yes, add picture timing, and continually insert sps/pps - uncheckmark those in tsmuxer

[Anonymous344]

Wow! Thanks for the quick reply and for all the information, especially about weightp. I'll give DVD Logic Easy BD Lite a go.

[Anonymous344]

I have installed DVDLogic Easy BD Lite, but it doesn't recognize my TrueHD file. I can change the extension to .mlp (whatever that is) and it recognizes the file, but then gives an error message :"Can't found audio file" (sic). Any ideas?

[Selur]

mlp is an extension that is used for the extended part of a trueHD stream (trueHD streams consist of an .ac3 core and an .mlp extension, unlike DTS-HD the .mlp part is an extension meaning it is useless without the core)
Sorry, can't help with 'DVDLogic Easy BD Lite' I normally use tsMuxeR,..

[Anonymous344]

Thanks for the info, Selur. I'll keep looking. I think the weird THD+AC3 extension is what's causing the problem.

[poisondeathray]

Not sure either, you might contact the developer

(TrueHD isn't that popular these days, it seems more BD's use DTS-MA)

Did you try tsmuxer (uncheckmarked options), changed encoding settigns, and input with raw avc ?

Panasonic BD players are notoriously finicky.

[Anonymous344]

Did you try tsmuxer (uncheckmarked options), changed encoding settigns, and input with raw avc? Panasonic BD players are notoriously finicky.

Yep, and mine's the most finicky I've seen. Encoding to raw AVC and disabling weightp and unchecking those boxes in tsmuxer resulted in a BD that played. (It seems that b-pyramid=1 is already strict, and I didn't have to disable open gop.)

Thanks again to both of you for your input.

[Anonymous344]

I have come across another TrueHD-related problem. I have a TrueHD stream from an HD DVD that I want to remux into a BD structure, but neither tsmuxer nor DVDLogic Easy BD Lite will recognize it. Now, I know that TrueHD streams on HD DVDs lack the cores that are found in BDs streams, but understood that BD supported both types. Am I wrong? Any advice would be appreciated.

[El Heggunte]

mlp is an extension that is used for the extended part of a trueHD stream (trueHD streams consist of an .ac3 core and an .mlp extension, unlike DTS-HD the .mlp part is an extension meaning it is useless without the core)

No way. TrueHD is a standalone compression scheme, and does not have a lossy "core". It's based on the ancient *Meridian Lossless Packing* from the DVD-Audio world, however there are significant differences between an MLP file and a TrueHD stream.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueHD

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio says:

According to DTS-HD White Paper, the DTS-HD Master Audio contains 2 data streams: the original DTS core stream and the additional "residual" stream which contains the "difference" between the original signal and the lossy compression DTS core stream. The audio signal is split into two paths at the input to the encoder. One path goes to the core encoder for backwards compatibility and is then decoded. The other path compares the original audio to the decoded core signal and generates residuals, which are data over and above what the core contains that is needed to restore the original audio as bit-for-bit identical to the original. The residual data is then encoded by a lossless encoder and packed together with the core. The decoding process is simply the reverse. Note that DTS-HD lossless audio coding is always variable bit rate.

[Anonymous344]

I'm still having problems with EasyBD Lite and TrueHD.

Can't found ac3 file for mlp file for AC3.(sic)

I understand that TrueHD is composed of an .mlp extension and an AC-3 "core", but I don't know how the program wants to be fed these two elements. Eac3to demuxes TrueHD with an odd THD+AC3 extension. Changing the extension to .mpl will enable the program to see the file, but the error message above is generated upon muxing.