Some questions for harddisk recorder pioneer, model DVR-LX61D

[vladorlok]

Hello

10 years ago i bought a harddisk recorder, which has served me very well until recently, where it took its last breath...

Unfortunately i have always been something of an idiot when it comes to technical stuff, but 10 years ago i had some fine opportunities for help, which not are possible now.

I have just bought a used pioneer, model DVR-LX61D, and so far i have spent maybe 3 hours almost without accomplishing anything... I believe i got the connections right, and when i press home menu, i get the right picture. Also when i turn the harddisk recorder off, i get the correct picture from my DVD player.

But when the harddisk recorder is turned on, i don't get any picture from my DVD player. Why? How can i get this picture, and much more important...how can i FINALLY begin to record some DVDs again? I of course know about some copyright problems, but not all DVDs are protected like that...some are region 0. How can i record these? What have i done wrong?

Greetings from Copenhagen
Jan

[jagabo]

Region coding has nothing to do with encryption and the do-not-copy flag. Pretty much every commercial DVD is protected with CSS encryption and most DVD players will apply the line-21 do-not-copy flag to the analog outputs when playing encrypted discs.

But I'm not sure what you are trying to do? Record DVDs onto the hard drive? Record a cable/satellite/OTA TV source to the hard drive? How are you wired up? The more details you can give the better.

[DB83]

Regions have nothing to do with dvd/hdd dubbing. Most commercial dvds have some form of copyright signal (macrovision etc.). You can not dub protected commercial dvds to hdd in this way. But you can nearly always rip the dvd to a PC's hdd.

[jman98]

You will NOT be able to record DVD player -> DVD recorder, so if that's your plan then you are trying to do the impossible. DVD video output has an anti-copy protection mechanism on it that DVD recorders are built to honor and refuse to record videos that use it. The only way to defeat this is to rip the DVD and remove it (it's called Macrovision) or to use a VERY old player that could be configured to not use Macrovision on its video output, but those players are really old (about 10+ years old) and there weren't very many of them when they did exist.

If buy certain other devices and put them between the DVD player and recorder those special devices can remove Macrovision, but I refuse to tell you any more about that because you should just learn to rip DVDs to your PC and reburn them if you want to copy them instead of doing this the stupid way by connecting a DVD recorder to a DVD player.

[vladorlok]

Ok, i was probably wrong about every region 0 DVD being not protected... But nevertheless i am STILL quite interested in copying DVDs! In fact i STILL refuse to believe that every DVD is copy-protected. What about something which originally was recorded from the television onto an old VHS-tape, and then transferred to a dvd. It is difficult for me to believe that this is copy-protected, and even illegal to copy. Another example on something on a DVD which easily is legal to copy, and also should be possible to record is some home-recordings from a wedding, recorded with a camera, and then transferred to a DVD.

But you ask what exactly i want to do? I still have some old VHS-tapes lying around which i want to transfer into DVDs. Furthermore i want to do some editing and put several small bits from several of my own DVDs onto the same DVD, and finally i want to borrow some of my friends DVDs and copy them. In some cases i want to have several movies transferred to one DVD, which i believe is either impossible, or at least difficult to do on a computer. I have a strong feeling that some of these DVDs are recorded from TV (some on blank DVDs and some on old VHS tapes) and according to what i believe, legal, while others probably not are legal...

But dealing with this legal or illegal question, i suggest that we try not to discuss it more than necessary at least, by letting it be up to my own conscience what i want to do, and by not directly telling me how to do something illegal...

But recording at least some DVDs should be possible!! It definitely was possible on my last harddisk recorder! My question right now is how to record several of my friends DVDs onto one DVD+r and how to transfer some of my old VHS tapes into DVD+r's.

I have tried to wire up in two ways: 1. A scart-cable goes from my television down to where it says "TV" (+ something more) on my harddisk recorder, and then i use another scart cable from where it says "decoder" (+ something more) on my harddisk recorder and then into my DVD player. That's basically it. Through the menu i can pick something called "Video In/Out". Here i can choose between "Input Colour System", "Component Video Out", "AV1 Out", "AV2/L1 In" and "NTSC on PAL TV". By picking nr. 3 or 4 of these last choices, i can choose between "Video" (which is the one i have picked by using a scart cable), S-Video, RGB and Decoder. But maybe this is totally wrong... As i already told you, technical stuff has always been very difficult for me.

2. The other way i have tried, is to switch the scart cable going from my harddisk recorder to my DVD player with a red, yellow and white cable. I have put this into the front panel on my harddisk recorder, and then into something which switches it into scart in the other end, in order to let it fit into my DVD player. Here i believed that i should pick "RGB" instead of "Video" from the choices described above. I have also tried to look for some button called "AV" on my remote control, but there isn't any. And when i go down from program number 1, i immidiately reach channel number 99. But then again i am probably just very very wrong... So...i still pray that some of you can help me!!

I maybe even should tell that i suffer from "Aspergers Syndrome", which is a mild version of authism, and my number one hobby is to buy, record, collect and watch movies! If you have any idea about this asperger, you would know just how important this is to me...

Jan

[jman98]

This is the right way to copy DVDs. It works.
1) Rip the DVD to your hard drive on your PC using DVDFab (there is a free version) or AnyDVD. If you don't buy DVDs in region 1, the old free DVDDecrypter usually works fine on DVDs in region 2 but it does not work at all on a lot of region 1 DVDs.
2) If necessary or desired, you can shrink dual layer sized DVD rips to single layer size with various programs.
3) You burn the ripped (and shrunk) DVD files to a new disc. You're done.

We've got detailed guides on the process.

Pointing a DVD player to a DVD recorder is really a bad way to go. If you want to do that then someone else has to help you. I have a policy that I don't help people do things that I think are stupid. Sorry.

[vladorlok]

I suppose it depends on the point of view whether it is stupid or not to perform various forms of copying from a DVD player to a DVD+r through a harddisk recorder. But it's of course ok with me that you think it's stupid, and that you therefore don't want to help me. I can probably easy live with that, and will just hope to receive help from someone else...

However i am just a little curious: What are your feelings towards transferring VHS tapes into DVDs? In most cases the content can be bought on new DVDs, but not in all cases...

Jan

[vladorlok]

i completely forgot to thank jman98. Even though you think it's quite stupid what i am doing, you still spent some time in trying to help me out in the way YOU think is the best way to do! Actually i AM grateful for that reply, and i even consider using it right now...

One of the main problems with this asperger curse is that it is sometimes close to impossible for me to understand what people are trying to say in between the words, and it is furthermore quite difficult for me to guess what reaction my words will cause...

So...in other words i just wanted to say right now, that i AM very very grateful for all the replies i get on this for me SOOOO important subject!! So please don't think that i am rude and ungrateful. Please believe me when i say that i am very thankful for every reply i get on this subject!

Jan

[DB83]

You previosly said "and finally i want to borrow some of my friends DVDs and copy them"

Unfortunately, members are quite reluctant to help with this simply because it is against the forum's rules.

[jagabo]

It sounds like you have the SCART cabling correct.

DVD player SCART out --> HDD recorder SCART in
HDD recorder SCART out --> TV SCART in

You may have to specify the output of the DVD Player. Use the lowest common denominator for the time being: composite video via SCART, not s-video or RGB. You will have to specify the input on the hdd recorder, and maybe the output too. Set them all to composite video via SCART. I would also start with the simplest things to record: a DVD+R or DVD-R you made yourself (most commercial DVDs will be copy protected) and PAL format (since you're in the UK).

[jagabo]

Unfortunately, members are quite reluctant to help with this simply because it is against the forum's rules.

How do you know they're Copyrighted DVDs?

[orsetto]

Before anything else, let me say I agree with the previous replies: you need to try and control your Asbergers' tendencies for a moment, and understand the advice to use a PC with software like DVDfab is in your best interests. Since DVDs are digital, it isn't necessary to make an analog copy from player to recorder like in the VCR days: computer software can make an exact 100%-quality duplicate DVD, or apply digital compression if needed. Blank DVDs are not like blank tapes: they cost pennies instead of dollars, and are a tenth the storage size of a VHS tape, so there is no need to use poor-quality slow speeds to cram three movies onto one DVD to save money or shelf space. There is no point to using DVD if you aren't going to take advantage of what it offers: the ability to use the excellent-quality SP recording speed for just about everything except extremely long movies or sports events. For longer movies, the LX-61 has finely-adjustable recording speeds like 130, 140 or 160 mins per DVD (you might need to turn them on in the Home Menu>Initial Setup>Recording>Manual Recording setting, which makes them available via the Record Mode button and arrow keys on the remote: see pages 65, 143, and 155 of the LX-61 User Manual).

That said, there are reasons why someone might need to make an analog copy from DVD player to DVD recorder: compilation/highlight reels, or backups of out-of-print videos, for example. You would connect a VCR to make DVD copies of tapes in the same way. It sounds like you have everything connected properly via SCART, so if you are seeing output from the LX-61 (Home Menu appears when you push the button) then you simply need to cycle the inputs until the playback from the connected DVD player (or VCR) shows on your screen. Pioneer recorders have a separate INPUT button on the remote control, just underneath the zero (0) number key. Pressing this button repeatedly will cycle thru all the available inputs: front, rear, SCART Composite, SCART RGB, etc. Start playing a disc in your player (or tape in your VCR), then press the INPUT button on the Pioneer remote until you can see the output of the DVD player (or VCR) thru the Pioneer. Remember which input worked, so you can return to it whenever needed.

Note the INPUT button on the Pioneer remote selects which video source you want to record, while the Home Menu options for A/V, Input Colour System, NTSC On PAL TV, etc only control adjustments to those inputs and outputs. This can be very confusing, and those adjustments are best left alone unless you fully understand the peculiar interface Pioneer uses (basically it allows each input source to have various visual filters applied for white balance, brightness, detail peaking, and so on).

Once you have the correct Pioneer input sorted out, you should have no problem copying VHS tapes you made yourself, or DVDs made on other DVD recorders or a PC. You might, however, have difficulties if you attempt to copy commercial, pre-recorded DVDs or VHS tapes. Most commercial recordings include a copy prevention signal, and all "big name" DVD recorders will be disabled from recording if they sense that signal (Pioneers will display a "Cannot record this material" alert on your TV screen and refuse to record when you push the red button). You may not have experienced this with your previous recorder if it was one of the many "budget" or "no name brand" models sold in Europe five or six years ago by Chinese companies like Apex or Lite On. Some of those models were not fitted with the detection circuit that locks out recording of protected videos, and would permit recording anything. This was non-standard and unusual: all global brand names like Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Sony, and Toshiba do have the detection circuit.

The Pioneer LX-61 is an exceptional DVD/HDD recorder, the best (and last) Pioneer marketed in Europe, but like all other top-of-the-line models it will NOT record commercial DVDs and VHS tapes from its line inputs without additional accessories. You would need to purchase either an external protection filter like the GREX, or an external Time Base Corrector like the DataVideo TBC1000, AVT-8710 or CBT-100. Be aware the GREX costs approx $100 (US) and the various TBC models range from $225-$500 (US). Second-hand TBCs are much less expensive on eBay, typically 50% less than a new one. These devices do not have SCART connectors, they use the standard round composite (yellow) or S-Video (round multipin) connectors. The wiring would be VCR or DVD player video output > Grex or TBC video input, then Grex or TBC video output > Pioneer LX-61 video input. The left and right (red and white) audio should connect directly from VCR or DVD player audio outputs > Pioneer LX-61 audio inputs.

[DB83]

Unfortunately, members are quite reluctant to help with this simply because it is against the forum's rules.

How do you know they're Copyrighted DVDs?

I do not.

But sometimes when I add 2 and 2 together even I get 4.

Nothing wrong to give the OP the benefit of the doubt but what "friend's dvds" should not be copyright ?

[vladorlok]

I have now read everything, and basically i am EXTREMELY grateful for all your BIG help!! Thank you a billion times!! It was especially the tip from Orsetto that i should press "Input" several times in order to get the picture, which helped me a lot!! Actually the button on my remote is called "input select" and is placed diagonally below the 0. Even though i am quite stupid concerning technical stuff, and didn't really understood a lot of the other advices, i definitely still benefit from having owned another harddisk recorder for ten years. Many of the functions are quite similar, so now everything works again like it used to! So thank you again all of you!

Concerning copying from friends i will say that i remember telling that i want to copy non-protected material, but i don't remember trying to act as a sacred person who never does anything wrong... I don't remember that i ever promised NOT wanting to copy copy-protected movies... As i remember it i just suggested that we should try not to discuss this as much as possible, and i even suggested that i ONLY should have advices concerning legal ways to copy. If i then choose to circumvent that, i am really on my own with my own conscience, trying to find information somewhere else. If i then choose to break the law, it would ONLY be my own problem! Is there a problem with that?

Finally just a small comment to the person who suggested that i live in the UK. Actually i am 100% Danish, living in Copenhagen! Here in Denmark approximately all of us speak ok English, but of course with some errors, since it isn't our native language. So please excuse me for some grammatical errors.

Jan