megui detects this as progressive but i think its telecinded?

[manono]

forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15293&stc=1&d=13560622 53

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[sanlyn]

Nope: Missing Page 404 Error. "This page you are searching does not exist.".

You load video, pics, scripts, files, into a forum post by clicking on "Upload files/Manage attachments", which you've been able to do twice earlier.

[mmbwdpnz]

how about now

[sanlyn]

mkv? Hm, is AVC just a temporary measure? The mkv is noisy and blurry, has bad frame hopping everywhere, and resized (?) with softer broken lines; the aliasing that was rather slight in your other vob example is more obvious after the downsize. Was this intentional? 640x432 won't be DVD or BluRay compliant.

[poisondeathray]

here is a sample with the force film. it was very fast to encode, the only things i dont like is those jagged lines i see on the roses and basketball hoop.

just add an AA function after the IVTC like DAA3() , but before other filters like resize (and I'm not sure why you resized to a weird dimension 640x432 in the 2nd example ?)

[sanlyn]

I used some aa plugins on the mkv and the vob posted earlier. SangNom did okay, but the rippling lines and distortion on motion (especially on the earlier vob) are not repairable IMHO. Some odd deinterlacing or field decimation or whatnot has occurred earlier, and sometimes IVTC makes it look worse. The earlier vob has field-blend problems near the end. Add low bitrate artifacts every time something moves, and.....I'm tired just thinking about it.

[sanlyn]

and I'm not sure why you resized to a weird dimension 640x432 in the 2nd example ?

.....When the image is encoded in a 720x480 frame for 4:3 DAR, it won't play back as 640x480 (1.333 : 1). It plays back as 622x476 (1.306 : 1) with black pixels to fill in the borders -- slightly squished horizontally, just enough to make round circles look like upright eggs.

[poisondeathray]

and I'm not sure why you resized to a weird dimension 640x432 in the 2nd example ?

.....When the image is encoded in a 720x480 frame for 4:3 DAR, it won't play back as 640x480 (1.333 : 1). It plays back as 622x476 (1.306 : 1) with black pixels to fill in the borders -- slightly squished horizontally, just enough to make round circles look like upright eggs.

If he encoded it correctly with --sar flags then there is no need to resize . It would be same as source 720x480 and will playback the same as the source DVD (640x480). In theory this is the "best" way to do it , because there is no quality loss from scaling during the encoding stage

But if he's going to resize , then when not use square pixels in the first place like 640x480 ? why 432 ?

[sanlyn]

No reason given for the resize, which itself was 1.333:1 -> 1.306:1 .
I was surprised to see mkv anyway. I thought the O.P. intended to go to standard DVD. But apparently not.

[mmbwdpnz]

No im trying to compress the episode to 375mb with 10-bit x264. I wasnt really sure what to do with the resize. And wasn't sure why there was so much aliasing and artifacts in the encode. I can't seem to remove the telecine no matter what method i use either.

[poisondeathray]

I wasnt really sure what to do with the resize. And wasn't sure why there was so much aliasing and artifacts in the encode.

It's in the source, that's why it's in the encode . This happens a lot with anime . Use an antialiasing filter

I can't seem to remove the telecine no matter what method i use either.

What do you mean ?

BTW at least some of the blends near the end of the 1st vob are intentional

[sanlyn]

BTW at least some of the blends near the end of the 1st vob are intentional

Aha! Nothing I tried had any effect at all. Now that you mention, I looked at that section again. You're right.

[sanlyn]

No im trying to compress the episode to 375mb with 10-bit x264. I wasnt really sure what to do with the resize. And wasn't sure why there was so much aliasing and artifacts in the encode.

If you're trying to overcompress the video, you haven't even started seeing artifacts! What is the size of the MPEG2 source?

I can't seem to remove the telecine no matter what method i use either.

There are no telecined frames in the resized sample you posted.

I had no problem cleaning up telecine in the earlier sample.vob that you submitted:

MPEG2Source("E:\forum\mmbwdpnz\sample_vob.d2v")
TFM(order=1).TDecimate()

....and cleaned up most of the aliasing with a couple of gentle-acting plugins to prevent too much line softening. But at this point you might want to clue us in on what you want as final output.

[poisondeathray]

No im trying to compress the episode to 375mb with 10-bit x264. I wasnt really sure what to do with the resize. And wasn't sure why there was so much aliasing and artifacts in the encode.

If you're trying to overcompress the video, you haven't even started seeing artifacts! What is the size of the MPEG2 source?

Actually, compression wise this isn't bad at all. x264 encoder is much better than MPEG2 of any encoder, and on top he's using 10bit (which is more efficient than the 8bit variety for compression purposes). His example used about 4.6Mb/s. That's a lot for anime (which is usually very compressible, compared to live action footage) . Typically people use maybe a 1/5 of that bitate for a DVD backup. In the past, people typically did DVD backups using xvid , a typical anime backup maybe used around 500-1000kb/s. h.264 using x264 at low bitrates compresses easily 2-3x better, maybe 4-5x better than MPEG2

[sanlyn]

Yes, I realize x264 is a better bet. I refer to the condition of the source, which ain't pristine and looks like low-bitrate and faulty work to begin with. With some cleanup it would work OK, but the mkv submitted was rather grungy. So I'm asking, what's the source and what's the objective? I also realize most people aren't that picky (What, Me? Picky? ).

[poisondeathray]

Yes, I realize x264 is a better bet. I refer to the condition of the source, which ain't pristine and looks like low-bitrate and faulty work to begin with. With some cleanup it would work OK, but the mkv submitted was rather grungy. So I'm asking, what's the source and what's the objective? I also realize most people aren't that picky (What, Me? Picky? ).

ok sorry maybe I misinterpreting what you were getting at, but he's not going to be adding anything seriously bad in terms of artifacts from compression. It's going to be visually lossless at that bitrate with this type of content .

In terms of the source quality, it's quite good all things considered (try comparing it to those typical VHS examples ) . DVD released anime can be much much much worse in terms of compression and other issues. The only real problem is aliasing in the source

Or maybe you're not used to looking at anime? This is a typical style of anime from that genre - maybe that's what you're getting at by calling it "grungy" ? Think of it as a type of art, it's intended to look that way. Besides some aliasing, I would argue there is nothing to "fix." I can upload some examples of "bad" anime if you want

[sanlyn]

Yes, there have been some nightmare posts of anime here. As I say, I'm probably too picky. Noise and distortion look more obvious to me with anime. I'd probably go bonkers trying to fix stuff that can't be fixed.

[mmbwdpnz]

i have many examples of bad anime. If you've ever bought the first three season boxset of the anime slayers its bad! Funimation did a terrible job on the transfer and everything else. It was field-blended too yuck! Anyways, my objective is to get a good quality encode. The source is bad because its an old anime, and only looks this good because it was remastered. And it isn't even a region 1 dvd rip. It came from the expensive R2 japanese releases. At least thats was what i was told. I want to remove the weird moving lines, and I didnt use an ivtc filter. I used force film on the sample i posted set to 99 percent. I added de-blocking and undot which helped with compression and there was no detail lost. I just can't get rid of those weirdly shaped and moving lines. After removing all the grain, Lsfmod I think would be best to make the source less blury and the lines less thin. This is my true objective. As I said before it will be 375mb with 10-bit x264 and the .mkv extension. Its best for when I add soft subtitles to it. SO i just want to make sure weird lines, movement, and telecine is gone. Before i continue encoding. I have a pretty good script for grain removal, deblocking, and sharpening already made. Just the lines make me sick.

[poisondeathray]

can you be more specific or descriptive about what you're referring to in terms of "weirdly shaped and moving lines" ? Are you referring to the aliasing or something else ?

[mmbwdpnz]

if you look at the roses in the .mkv I see these weird kind of horizontal lines. and if you look at the basketball hoop you can see the lines are there too. I want those removed they irritate me so much!

[poisondeathray]

if you look at the roses in the .mkv I see these weird kind of horizontal lines. and if you look at the basketball hoop you can see the lines are there too. I want those removed they irritate me so much!

I think we talking about the same thing? I'm referring to aliasing . They aren't horizontal lines, they are stair stepped edges

You apply AA filter BEFORE resizing, because resizing can change the spatial relationships of the "stair steps" . IMO you shouldn't even be resizing (but that' s another topic)

This is from your vob (click to view at full size):

Before:




After using DAA3()





From your mkv after/before

[mmbwdpnz]

are they the default settings, and where can I get the DAA3 filter? For resizing I wasn't sure as i think the dvd is anaphormic.

[poisondeathray]

are they the default settings, and where can I get the DAA3 filter? For resizing I wasn't sure as i think the dvd is anaphormic.

Yes, default settings . You need nnedi3 as well

Whenever you need a plugin or filter , there is thing thing called "google" . You type in your search term something like "daa3 avisynth doom9" . It will usually be 1st or 2nd hit.

Man, in the old days, people used "search"

In the old days, (when we had to go to school uphill both ways ) you'd get shot for asking questions like this in forums like doom9 without making an attempt at searching first first

FUNCTION daa3(clip c) {
nn    = c.nnedi3(field=-2)
dbl       = mt_average(selecteven(nn),selectodd(nn),U=3,V=3)
dblD     = mt_makediff(c,dbl,U=3,V=3)
shrpD     = mt_makediff(dbl,dbl.removegrain((width(c)>1100) ? 20 : 11),U=3,V=3)
DD     = shrpD.repair(dblD,13)
return dbl.mt_adddiff(DD,U=3,V=3) }

For resizing I wasn't sure as i think the dvd is anaphormic.

There are different views on this, but many people to preserve the same as DVD. So encode anamorphic 720x480, just like the DVD. If you wanted to resize using square pixels, you would use 640x480

I stated this above earlier...

[mmbwdpnz]

lol thanks. I appreciate all the help I get on this forum. Its a great place to get a second opinion since I am still a beginner trying to make it look like I know what I'm talking about.

[mmbwdpnz]

how is the encode I just posted? Is the telecine, and aliasing gone? Is it me or does it appear to have motion ghosting.

[mmbwdpnz]

sample

[manono]

It's still 29.97fps so it was never 'Forced Film' in DGIndex or even IVTC'd. It looks to me like all you've managed to do is ruin it by blend deinterlacing it (the 'motion ghosting' you mentioned).

[mmbwdpnz]

I did not blend deinterlace anything. Could it be the DAA3? I fixed the ivtc in this one.

[poisondeathray]

It's still messed up. You're inducing blends from something . DAA3 doesn't cause that

Post your full script, and/or post your log file

[mmbwdpnz]

my script