Connecting PC's VGA to TV's Component

[pandy]

Sorry if i haven't mentioned it, but my tv has an HDMI input

Like I said in my first post,
My goal was to have an analog only signal, as not to have any sort of lag

So this is not Your case - analog input will be lag free only on analog display's - Your TV is digital type device, it must store whole frame before it can display this frame - to reduce latency You should set HMDI in DVI mode and You should push Vertical frequency up to maximum supported by TV (70Hz?).
Going to analog have sense for analog devices like CRT monitors - they have no memory thus they provide latency (lag) free capabilities.

This is meant so there's no delay when playing games


I was wondering if powerstrip could fix that ?

eg.
Guitar Hero or maybe it's Rock Band, that has a lag compensation
It allows for exact or better timing when there's input lag, and i think also processor lag on the TV

Try to turn off video processing, almost any function related to denoising, picture color improvement introduce latency due fact that it is usually implemented to use history i.e. at least one stored video frame thus they must introduce video buffering. Usually there is special preset for Games which should provide lowest possible latency. If this is not enopugh go for very fast, those hype 400 - 800Hz TV's usually they can provide lower latency thanks to higher refresh rate (however You need to provide those faster fps)

[pandy]

The above appeared to have been commenting on my post, since yours was the next after mine and there is nothing to indicate you were replying to another post, or no post at all.

Your ego is already overblown but go on - blow it even more...

This post of yours was about building VGA to component converters that do not scale:

They exist, they can be buy, if you need lag free converter then you need search for it - perhaps on second hand market, perhaps you have friend who is electronic guy and can build it for you from cheap parts - there is plenty of opportunities.

We have already covered this. Commercially available VGA to component converters scale, among other things.

First - seems that you don't understand what i've wrote, however if you need to say something then prove it (i can provide you data about HDMI receivers that perform conversion from HDMI to YPbPr/RGB without resizing and thus they are virtually latency (lag) free converters)

You created the misunderstanding, if there is one. If you want to be understood, at least make the tiny effort required to let us know what kind of converter(s) you mean and which post you are replying to.

http://www.startech.com/AV/Converters/Video/VGA-to-Component-YPbPr-Video-Converter~VGA2CPNT

Perhaps we use different Google... or we use same Google but one of us is not able to use it correctly...

As usual your advice in this thread is impractical for the vast majority of Video Help members. Nobody without an electronics background is going to build their own converter. If the OP is asking the kinds of questions he has, he doesn't have the right background to build one. If he has to hire somebody else do the work for him, then a new video card will be considerably less expensive.

As usual you not advice anything useful but trying to express personal opinion as general point of view for whole site - anyway from my personal point of view it is quite unjustified claim that everyone is like you i.e. without electronic background, lazy i slightly annoying - this forum have various users and some of them live outside USA and they are without overgrowth ego.

If you haven't learned that 99.99% of the worlds population falls into the category of having no electronics background then you've spent your entire life living in an electronics lab. So everybody in that very large group who is not willing to learn to build their own electronics is lazy, eh? Talk about an ego problem...

One more thing... The OP uses American spelling for a number of words that are spelled differently elsewhere, so chances are he is one of us.

"wiling to learn electronics"... no this is not a problem of will - some people are good in growing flowers, other in fixing cars - this is problem that you assume that everybody is like you...
Luckily for me i knew few guys from US without overblown ego and they don't think that they are center of Universe and thanks to them i have very positive picture of the US - you are exception not a rule for US people...
But if can advice something - be nice and avoid expressing private opinion as opinion of others unless they give you right to speak in their name.
Be well...

[jagabo]

My goal was to have an analog only signal, as not to have any sort of lag

HDMI isn't the cause of your lag. The cause is the processing (scaling, noise reduction, automatic gain, inverse telecine, deinterlacing, etc.) your TV does to the picture before putting it on the screen. See if it has a "game" mode with reduced processing. There's no guarantee that using an analog input will reduce lag. In fact it could be worse as the incoming signal has to be digitized before it can be put on the LCD panel. And the TV may still perform the same processing.

[usually_quiet]

"wiling to learn electronics"... no this is not a problem of will - some people are good in growing flowers, other in fixing cars - this is problem that you assume that everybody is like you...
Luckily for me i knew few guys from US without overblown ego and they don't think that they are center of Universe and thanks to them i have very positive picture of the US - you are exception not a rule for US people...
But if can advice something - be nice and avoid expressing private opinion as opinion of others unless they give you right to speak in their name.
Be well...

I suspect that you sufffer from some form of mental illness or other mental disorder. I hope that you get well someday.

[usually_quiet]

What do you mean by "lag induced from using HDMI"? So far HDMI has not been part of this discussion. Do you mean lag from an HDMI to component converter like this? http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=1

Sorry if i haven't mentioned it, but my tv has an HDMI input

Like I said in my first post,
My goal was to have an analog only signal, as not to have any sort of lag

This is meant so there's no delay when playing games


I was wondering if powerstrip could fix that ?

eg.
Guitar Hero or maybe it's Rock Band, that has a lag compensation
It allows for exact or better timing when there's input lag, and i think also processor lag on the TV

I agree with jagabo that using an analog component connection might cause even more lag than using HDMI. Computer games are designed to be displayed on a computer monitor, which does not do all the processing that a TV does.

This is different. We usually get posts from people with a console game system, designed to use a TV as their display, who are having problems getting the console to work as they would like with a computer monitor. I never thought about the reverse situation, a computer gamer having problems when using a flatscreen TV instead of a computer monitor. I guess it is the same story for both PC gamers and console gamers: monitors are not TVs and TVs are not monitors.

I hope changing the TV settings work, but if not, the problems you are experiencing might go away if you can use a VGA connection on the TV to connect your PC, which may use less processing. If that doesn't work for you or isn't possible, I am out of ideas.

[jagabo]

Generally:

Computer monitors receive a "perfect" picture from the graphics card. They are designed to show that picture exactly as it is. You don't want Microsoft Word documents "enhanced" for display. You don't want your Photoshop editing session to be seen with a contrast stretch, extra color saturation, or with noise reduction. So computer monitors don't do much if any processing to the image they receive.

TVs are used to receiving degraded pictures from over the air broadcast, poor VHS recordings, etc. Many video sources are interlaced so the picture has to be deinterlaced for the LCD or plasma panel. Even with clean sources many people want to see the contrast and colors pumped up for a more vivid picture. So TVs include lots of processing features, many of which require multiple frames of video to be stored locally and processed. So the picture you see on the screen may be several frames behind the source device, ie lag. Many TVs include a "game" mode to reduce that lag.

[i am a hobo]

I have a CRT HD TV ?

Doesn't that mean its analog and not digital ?

[jagabo]

A CRT may be pure analog. Or it may convert the incoming analog video to digital form, perform some filtering, then convert it back to analog for display.

[i am a hobo]

Would it say in the manual, if there's any processing being done to the picture

[pandy]

Would it say in the manual, if there's any processing being done to the picture

Please provide us model of your TV.

[jagabo]

Would it say in the manual, if there's any processing being done to the picture

Not necessarily. Or it may be very vague -- so you won't know if it's analog or digital.

[usually_quiet]

Would it say in the manual, if there's any processing being done to the picture

I may be wrong, but even if the manual doesn't provide any information about processing, wouldn't input from the component connection need to be scaled, at the very least, prior to display, assuming the TV supports 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i? In addition some HDTVs don't have a an actual resolution equal to 1920x1080 or 1280x720.

[jagabo]

Analog CRT HDTVs don't have to scale. They just scan the electron beam at different rates. The better ones convert interlaced to progressive, in which case they will convert to digital form, then back to analog.

Remember, The picture on a CRTs is drawn by a single dot (or three depending on the technology used). That dot is moved very quickly back and forth, top to bottom, across the screen. That dot can be moved at any speed and with any precision necessary.

[usually_quiet]

Analog CRT HDTVs don't have to scale. They just scan the electron beam at different rates. The better ones convert interlaced to progressive, in which case they will convert to digital form, then back to analog.

Remember, The picture on a CRTs is drawn by a single dot (or three depending on the technology used). That dot is moved very quickly back and forth, top to bottom, across the screen. That dot can be moved at any speed and with any precision necessary.

I presume I am not being excessively egotistical in believing that this was a reply to my question.

Thanks. I knew about the number of horizontal pixels not being an issue, but I thought the number of scan lines would be a scaling issue.

[i am a hobo]

My TV is a Sony FD Trinitron Wega

model number KV-30HS420

[jagabo]

I thought the number of scan lines would be a scaling issue.

No, a pure analog CRT TV simply moves the electron bean down the screen more or less to compensate for the number of scan lines. That is, it moves the beam down 1/1080 the height of the screen for successive lines of a 1080p signal, 1/480 the height of the screen for 480p signals.

[jagabo]

My TV is a Sony FD Trinitron Wega... model number KV-30HS420

Since it offers reverse 3:2 pulldown it must include digital processing. And being a high end Sony you would expect that.

[i am a hobo]

damn, uhm there's no game mode for this tv

is there a way to turn off any digital processing

[i am a hobo]

i'm reading that the cinemotion option enables reverse 3:2 pulldown


although, the HD input selections (component, HDMI) don't allow such video options to be enabled

[jagabo]

The processor is probably too weak for IVTC on HD sources.

[i am a hobo]

what's IVTC ?

[jagabo]

IVTC = inverse 3:2 pulldown

[i am a hobo]

Alright, just to be clear

no matter how you cut it, there's gonna be some form of lag in my set up ?


PC to TV via HDMI or video card with component out dongle

[jagabo]

no matter how you cut it, there's gonna be some form of lag in my set up ?

We can't tell you for certain. All you can do is try each option.

[pandy]

no matter how you cut it, there's gonna be some form of lag in my set up ?


PC to TV via HDMI or video card with component out dongle

Yes, Your TV is purely digital even if it use CRT as a display - video processing is performed by CXD9509 - it is unknown native video mode displayed by CRT (some CRT TV's such as Philips convert any incoming video to native resolution and frame rate).

Lag introduced by this TV can be measured however it is very important to know did you personally experienced lag already or did you just trying to prevent against potential lag.

I've checked service manual for this family and Sony not even listing supported V and H frequencies - thus it is probably TV fixed for few modes HD Ready (this can suggest that native video mode is 720p).

If You really demand zero lag display then search for PC CRT monitor (perhaps LCD's) - they should support higher framerate than 72Hz or perhaps consider to buy modern and fast TV (perhaps one of those hype 400/800Hz) with support for 120fps at least at HDMI input (not sure but modern 3D TV can support such high framerate). By pushing framerate over 100Hz, You can reduce lag bellow 10ms (with turned off additional video processing - any active NR is forbidden for lag reduction).

[jimdagys]

In the TV department in Walmart, it seems that all the TVs have a slightly different audio lag, hence the big echo. I guess that is the nature of the beast.