Is it possible to push VHS video beyond its basic clarity/resolution?

[budwzr]

I'm seeing "cool" colors.

[poisondeathray]

OK, that's it then. I hereby elect myself as the winner of this discussion.

Is it gif time again?

[budwzr]

Dude, that's awesome!!! Hahaha. Nice ripple collapsing effect. The Wiz ends up like the witch on Oz.

You got me on that one, but I'll be lurking. Mwahahahahaha.

[sanlyn]

the op's source video does have some (slight) contrasting issues but that can be fixed if it bothers him. sometimes, you can just leave it alone during processing/converting and the player or sw player will handle correctly with some adjustments. vlc has a few configuration settings you can change to reduce the contrast issue. it is a simple matter of testing it on your rig. sometimes it resolves the color issue and sometimes not. it all depends. but to test for yourself, do the following in vlc:

1. right-click on vlc window
2. select \Interface
3. select \Preference . . . . . .

You're out of your mind. No one would go through that nonsense for every video.
VLC's settings are too primitive and nonlinear anyway.

[sanlyn]

So if brassplyer's original goal (and purpose of this thread) was to optimize clarity and resolution - that's going to be a trade off vs noise reduction . That's a subjective choice. Personally I'm not a fan of the "oil painting plastiky look" , which is the result of overzealous denoising and sharpening. VHS doesn't contain a whole lot of detail to begin with but I would rather attempt preserve whatever fine details in the crappy VHS at the expense of a bit of noise .

Yep. My 2 trials went to the edge trying to clean up that grimy blue background. But ran out of time here. With more runs, it would likely be better to spend less time on the kids and put more into the worst of the noise in the blue backdrop.

I agree with Sanlyn that there is a red color cast, but there is a lot of subjectivity in regards to color and grading . Everyone is going to have a different opinion on what the colors should look like - but I think we can all agree the shirts are supposed to be "white". The thing is , in real life , lights are never 100% white, so shirts are never 100% white. There is always a color temperature to lighting, whether artifical or natural. I think it would be a mistake to match the shirts to perfect equal R=G=B white values. Not only does it look unnatural - this probably means you will reduce the fine detail in the shirts as you clip the high end or stretch the curve too much using an 8 bit format

Good points. I'm sometimes prodded into the oversharpen/oversaturate bit getting so popular now, but....it never looks right to me. It might be temporarily eye popping, but it's unreal and you tiring. The only time white shirts look like RGB=240 or brighter is in home flash digital shots with the flash a few scant feet away. White shirts seldom look that white in movies. And there is often a hint of yellow or some graying-down to avoid looking artificially lighted. "Perfect" white looks rather odd in video, like "perfect" reds, etc. One thing I didn't like about my 2 tries was that the shirts are too bright, which burned more of the few highlights that were left. Will add these two clips to my give-it-a-few-more-tries folder. General rule: when you think it's finally looking better, wait 3 days.

Nice mkv.

[sanlyn]

I'm seeing "cool" colors.

Not really (although, like my attempts, gamma might be a bit high). The color that's in short supply isn't red, and wouldn't want to cut blue. The deficit color is green. Get your pixel reader and you'll see what I mean. Problem: with the screwy colors in the original, adding green makes the reds more mellow but the kids look sickly. It would take a lot of time and tricky effort to clean up that video. Wonder what happened to it, or if it was just mastered that way.

[budwzr]

Thats pdr,s edit. It lookd ok now on my android tablet.

I knew if i switched the images around, you would vote differently. Hahaha, egg on your face!

[sanlyn]

I'm seeing "cool" colors.

I started to turn in for the night, but your comment wouldn't leave me alone. "Cool" is an optical illusion. The top photo posted below is the one you posted. It's still too red -- actually, it's magenta (red+blue). The bottom photo is the same image' the only change was to add green above RGB 80. Click on an image to load it into the forum image viewer, then swith back and forth between the two. Green mellows red a bit, but also brightens the shirts. Problem: now the kids faces are starting to look to green, and overall impression is that the shirts are too "bright". So...more work, for another day.


[Attachment 14446 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 14447 - Click to enlarge]

To make the difference seem moe clear, I added about 2 or 3 points too much bright green. Sometimes a little goes a long way.

[poisondeathray]

If it's not "warm" enough you could bring up the highlight greens, decrease red saturation selectively, and increase overall saturation . These things are harder to do in avisynth alone (the previous attempt for color was only done with avisynth filters tweak and coloryuv) - you need non linear adjustments like curves, secondary color correction, 3way CC etc... These things are very subjective . I think the only thing that is absolutely true in regards to color is the red color cast in the original .

Dude, that's awesome!!! Hahaha. Nice ripple collapsing effect. The Wiz ends up like the witch on Oz.

You got me on that one, but I'll be lurking. Mwahahahahaha.

Hahaha , I was thinking of a good way of popping the ballons in your avatar gif next

[budwzr]

Why? Are they annoying? Hehehe. Maybe I'll make them bigger. mwahahahaha.

Hahaha, egg on your face too!



P.S. Hulk is going to regret trouncing the wiz.

[budwzr]

Ummm...lets watch the rest of the clip.

[poisondeathray]

^hahah nice one!!! Hulk guts!!!

But there ain't no way a civilian helicopter (with no weaponry I might add) can blow up the fricken INCREDIBLE HULK

LOL these gifs are going to pretty big if we keep this up, maybe time to refrain from hijacking the thread. Gif wars should be fought in another thread

[budwzr]

Right. We need to respect the forum. So Truce!

[poisondeathray]

hahaha ... ok truce.... sorry I squished "Wiz"

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you'd better watch your back...

[brassplyer]

Video1_white_gray: (1) whites aren't white. (2) Shadows on white aren't gray; they're purple. But some of it ooks like lighting effects and reflections from other clothing. Not an easy fix.

[Attachment 14432 - Click to enlarge]

I think it's pretty much exclusively due to the lighting. I.e. I believe they're supposed to look that way. Notice how various elements pick up the blue tint - the back of Conte Candoli's hair (the center trumpet in the one shot), parts of the jackets seemingly depending on how the blue light hits them - parts of the jackets are quite white. Part of the area of the stage floor, part of the stage where the kids' choir is seen in my example. Note the one shot of Doc in front of the band, his suit is plenty white while the stage backdrop and part of the frame around it is very purple, but part isn't. Also gets picked up in the reflections off the brass instruments.

[budwzr]

Ive seen this before. Due to a magnetic field.

[brassplyer]

Ive seen this before. Due to a magnetic field.

In this case I think it's due to spotlights.

[jagabo]

Ive seen this before. Due to a magnetic field.

In this case I think it's due to spotlights.

Of course. It's stage lighting. Colored lights on the background, white spotlight on the featured performer.

[lordsmurf]

Very good corrections, sanlyn.

There's actually several things that can still be done about the chroma noise.

And I find a lot of people who disagree about colors tend to not be using accurate monitors.
Unless they give their specs (like your calibrated IPS), I tend to assume low-end cheap monitors.
And therefore their opinion doesn't matter a whole lot.

[sanlyn]

Thanks, LS, and I thought poisondeathray made some good points as well. I also played these on my bro-in-law's cheapo LCD monitor. Looked very strange! But everything looks strange on that display.

That points up a problem with suggesting denoisers/corrections in these forums. Most users don't have calibrated monitors, so quite often some of the suggestions seem confusing or not worth the effort. Many viewers, somehow, don't see noise. Luma and chroma levels can't compete with volcano-mode over sharpening and contrast. I think I'll stick to known standards, as well as I can learn from you and more advanced members -- wish I could catch up with you guys !!

Meanwhile, everyone knows what they want. I'm not one to argue with that.

[budwzr]

Ive seen this before. Due to a magnetic field.

In this case I think it's due to spotlights.

Of course. It's stage lighting. Colored lights on the background, white spotlight on the featured performer.

Then whoever shot the video must have left the WB on "auto", or inappropriate setting.

[jagabo]

My point wasn't that the color was perfect in every shot but that often there should be a blue or purple cast in parts of the picture because blue and purple lights where used as mood lighting.

[budwzr]

I don't have all the fancy equipment like some of you. But here's a poorman's try:

The skin tones are natural, and the trumpet shows brass color where the silver is worn by skin acids. But the trouser legs have a new aberration.

I believe that this is the correct WB.

[budwzr]

My point wasn't that the color was perfect in every shot but that often there should be a blue or purple cast in parts of the picture because blue and purple lights where used as mood lighting.

I see what you mean. When we fix the hair, the wall turns beige. hahaha.

[jagabo]

Yes, the white haired trumpeter's hair should be purple because there is a purple light shining on him That's also consistent with the floor, the sheet music, and the guy in the white coat at the left edge.

[budwzr]

If this were a clip of a Yeti in the wild, it would be easier.

[jagabo]

Unless it was taken at sunset!

[lordsmurf]

I believe that this is the correct WB.

It's way, way, way off. I think your monitor is way out of spec. It has a very yellow/brown shift, and all of the whites are tinted pink.

Then whoever shot the video must have left the WB on "auto", or inappropriate setting.

Actually, you have that backwards. WB changing would have compensated for the colored lights. (Or rather, tried to, and made a bigger mess.)

[budwzr]

Unless it was taken at sunset!

Because they go in their coffin?

[sanlyn]

Budwzr, make your stuff look the way you want. No one prevents you from doing that. But don't ask me to believe that pumpkin-colored skin looks "natural".