Lord Smurf & all - How to remove rumble still remaining after noise removal

[VideoFanatic]

Anyone is welcome to help me but I know Lord Smurf has experience with this. I demuxed a VHS to DVD conversion which was recorded off TV and converted the AC3 to WAV.

I'm using Adobe Audition CS5.5. Normally I would do a noise print of the noise in silence then do 100% noise reduction on the whole file. However the rumble noise does not occur in silence so I can't do that. My only option is to try and select the instances of rumble on the bottom of the spectral view and copy them to a file then capture a noise print of the file and apply it to my whole file. However that lowers the quality of the audio because I have obviously selected some audio that there's nothing wrong with as well which is unavoidable. This isn't a major problem but I notice it the most during music. If I need to do a 2 pass then the problem is even worse and quality of the music is really bad.

Do you perhaps have a rumble sample I could use to do a noise print of? Or could you recommend any methods to remove the rumble without lowering the quality of the audio?

I have some short WAV samples:

• Audio Before Noise Removal
• Audio After Noise removal (rumble still present)
• Audio After Rumble & Hiss Removed (ECW June 13 2000)
  
  
• Sample used to remove hiss
  
• Rumble sample used to remove rumble

Note I combined the separate hiss and rumble samples above and did a noise print on it then did noise reduction in 2 passes to remove the hiss and rumble.

[aedipuss]

it's not "rumble". i don't see or hear any repetitive low freq noise. the best i could do was to band pass/noise gate it between 300 and 10khtz.

[VideoFanatic]

Thanks but I don't notice any difference. The rumble or whatever it is, is still there after I remove the hiss.

[sanlyn]

No rumble. It's mostly treble, with a rolloff below 1000 Hz or so. I used 5 .wav players, 2 speakers, 2 headphones. No rumble. Pumped up the bass (there's very little of it to begin with), no rumble.

Can't hear the difference in that .flac file? I did. Sounds horrible.

[VideoFanatic]

Are you saying the flac is better than the original? Whatever you want to call the non-hiss noise, I can still hear it in the flac after I do noise reduction on it to remove the hiss.

[netmask56]

I have 4 x 15" Tannoy speakers (Monitor Golds) mounted in an infinite baffle arrangement. Cannot hear or detect any low frequency rumble on the original. Can you give a more descriptive explanation of what you are hearing and what sort of speakers / amp combination do you have? If there is low frequency rumble then use a high pass filter set at say 40Hz to brick wall any frequencies below 40Hz. The sample provide sounds like a sports broadcast and typically the microphone on the commentator will have a high pass filter set on the actually microphone around 80Hz so you are not going to miss anything.

[sanlyn]

Are you saying the flac is better than the original? Whatever you want to call the non-hiss noise, I can still hear it in the flac after I do noise reduction on it to remove the hiss.

Not all. It's all piercing, peaked-out treble. If you hear "no difference" between that and your original .wav, something's amiss with your audio setup.

I'd echo the previous post and ask: how are you listening to this audio? There's no rumble at all -- not even any lower midrange. It's all treble. I've heard more LF output from AM radio.

[aedipuss]

i lowered the cutoff to 8khtz and most of the hiss is gone.

[jagabo]

No rumble. The only low noise that is remotely like a rumble is when the action starts to pick up (!5 seconds in) one of the wrestlers stamping his foot or hitting the mat, and there's a short whump. And another one at about 15 seconds.

There is a low buzz that runs through the audio. Probably 60 Hz (or harmonic) hum. A notch filter will get rid of that. Yeah, I think it's 120 Hz.

[sanlyn]

Not as sharply piercing as before, aedipuss, butb still kinda shrill. Got a heavy emphasis in the upper midrange similar to the original This audio needs to reshaped, bringing it down to the left on a frequency graph by about 1500 Hz or so and flattening the freq-graph's shape a bit, especially in the middle. You'd need about a 20-point mixer for that. I don't think you'll have to worry about getting any rumble out of this, there's no low bass at all. The two guys sound like a couple of medieval castrati at the local Gothic cathedral.

[aedipuss]

i tried lowering the high cut off under 8khtz but their voices are up there.... jag i tried removing all freqs. that are a multiple of 60htz in that last flac i up'd, didn't help all that much.

[jagabo]

There's definitely a low amplitude buzz at 120 Hz. Do the opposite, use an equalizer to boost 120 Hz. The buzz will be very obvious. But it's at such a low level it doesn't really need removing. I think the OP has a his sub cranked really high.

[sanlyn]

I just cranked up 120Hz. Can't hear it through speakers or headphones. Cranking it up in that region gives me mike hum, something that sounds like an air conditioner, and an intermittent buzz from (I think) something with a strong magnetic field somewhere near one of the reporters, it comes and goes. Can also pick up something similar from the Sound Blaster card, and that could just be from overload with the cranked up equalizer.

I think maybe holygamer is listing to buzz from speakers or sound card.

[lordsmurf]

"Rumble sample used to remove rumble" is a dead link in the first post.

What is "Hiss sample used to remove hiss.wav" supposed to be? That's not hiss. It's lots of random noise patterns. That file is pretty much useless.

You need to isolate a noise print from black frames (going to/from commercial breaks).

There's definitely tape hiss in the "before" clip. I'm not sure that I detect any buzzing. It would be under the other dominant audio. There's definitely not any rumble. (It has very little bass, period.)

The "after" file is almost a bit overaggressive.

I tend to think the entire recording is a bit "off" in terms of balance. Lawler sounds a good pitch or two higher than normal. And he's already high as it is. It's actually off by a fifth chord, maybe. It's sounds too sharp.

When somebody wants my help, they need to remember to PM me a link to the thread. Otherwise I'll only find it by luck.

I would also bet the major audio issue is with the end user (holygamer), between sound card, software sound settings, and/or speakers. Because my setup is about as optimized as it can get, and I hear nothing wrong outside of what I've mentioned.

[VideoFanatic]

I've updated my 1st post now with new information and I've fixed the link. The "Hiss sample used to remove hiss" file is a collection of hiss-like noises I copied and pasted from silence in other videos. Instead of having to manually find a section of silence in each video, instead I just sample my hiss file which nearly always gets rid of all the hiss unless there's some hiss sample that I don't have yet. How is the file useless? It gets rid of the hiss which is what I wanted it to do. I could sample some silence from the 1 hour long file that I'm trying to remove hiss from but it would sound just the same than if I'd used my hiss sample file.

I have the Sony CMT-EH25 Micro System. I don't have a subwoofer or anything like that and there's no settings on my Hi-Fi to choose from apart from an EQ setting of Rock, Pop, Jazz, etc. My micro system is nothing special but it allows me to hear the highs and lows. I have it connected to my PC via a line-out cable. I have edited lots of videos like this before and some have that rumble noise and some don't so I don't think it's my setup that's the problem. This is very frustrating as I don't understand how you can't hear the noise I'm talking about.

So guys can you please confirm that you can't hear the rumble noise (or whatever you call it) when listening and comparing the following files?:

Audio after noise removal (rumble still present)
Smackdown Feb 10 after hiss & rumble removal (newly posted)

Sanlyn were you saying that you could hear the rumble noise?

What should I call this noise if it's not rumble?

Aedipuss - the last sample you gave sounds much worse than my fixed sample and it still has rumble.

I have 4 x 15" Tannoy speakers (Monitor Golds) mounted in an infinite baffle arrangement. Cannot hear or detect any low frequency rumble on the original. Can you give a more descriptive explanation of what you are hearing and what sort of speakers / amp combination do you have? If there is low frequency rumble then use a high pass filter set at say 40Hz to brick wall any frequencies below 40Hz. The sample provide sounds like a sports broadcast and typically the microphone on the commentator will have a high pass filter set on the actually microphone around 80Hz so you are not going to miss anything.

How do I "use a high pass filter set at say 40Hz to brick wall any frequencies below 40Hz"?

[jagabo]

There is no rumble in those tracks. The second one is really painful. Here's some rumble...

[VideoFanatic]

Maybe your setup is so good that it filters out rumble? I put the audio file on my media player which is connected via phono to my Hi-Fi and I could hear rumble on that so it's not my PC that's causing the problem.

I also connected my Media Player to my £200 headphones via Optical and I can hear rumble on that.

If the rumble is not in the file, how do I find out what's causing me to hear rumble? I have my Hi-Fi connected to my PC via a line-out cable from my motherboard's inbuilt ports.

[sanlyn]

Sanlyn were you saying that you could hear the rumble noise?

What should I call this noise if it's not rumble?

No rumble. There is an brief clunk or thud sound, I think it's the two guys getting excited and pounding on the desk or on something near the mikes. But that's fairly mid-pitched and has no deep bass harmonics. There's just no low freq at all in that clip.

[DB83]

This is Raslin innit ?. So if there is rumble it must be Royal Rumble

Better Smackdown this topic before it goes Stone Cold.

[This post is intended to lighten the pantomine that the topic is becoming. "Oh no you can't. Oh yes I can"]

[aedipuss]

well if it was a wwe smackdown feb 10 then it seems to be available on youtube without the terrible audio.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=smackdown+feb+10&oq=smackdown+feb+10

[VideoFanatic]

OK guys, I've got a clearer sample this time. Could you please tell me if you can hear rumble (or whatever you call it) in this file?

Hiss Removed but Rumble still Present (Smackdown June 22 2000).wav

This is after I removed the rumble so you can compare it with the file above:

Rumble & Hiss Removed (Smackdown June 22 2000).wav

This is before I did any noise removal at all:

Before Noise Removal (Smackdown June 22 2000).wav


To remove the rumble and hiss I did a noise print of the rumble sample below and applied it to the above file. Then I did the same with the hiss sample.

• Rumble Sample (Smackdown June 22 2000).wav
• Hiss Sample (Smackdown June 22 2000).wav

[jagabo]

What you were hearing is the buzz I mentioned earlier.

[VideoFanatic]

OK, thanks. We're getting somewhere now! How do I go about removing that noise if I can't sample the noise in an area of silence such as inbetween commercials? I use Adobe Audition CS5.5 but if I need a different program then let me know.

[lordsmurf]

How is the file useless?

The best noise print is the one generated from the file with noise.
Otherwise it's generic, and using it in cancellation is a guestimate at best.
Results can be erratic and very imprecise.

And also because Stone Cold says so.

[jagabo]

Does this remove most of the buzz/hum?

[VideoFanatic]

I don't know what you mean. That sample doesn't contain any sample in silence I can use as a noise print to apply on my file?

If you mean you did noise removal on it and can I still hear the noise then yes I can. It's the same as before but there's a different noise there now!

[VideoFanatic]

Lord Smurf, I realise that the best noise print is the one generated from the file with noise however this particular rumble-like noise doesn't exist in silence so I can't sample it. You seem to have a lot of experience with audio editing so do you happen to have any rumble-like samples I can use to remove the noise from this file? Or does anyone else have any other suggestions as to how I can remove this noise?

Hiss Removed but Rumble still Present (Smackdown June 22 2000).wav

[jagabo]

I tried to isolate the hum/buzz that I hear. Is this the "rumble" you are complaining about?

[VideoFanatic]

Yes. How would I go about getting a sample of that (just the noise) so I can use it as a noise print on my file so I can remove the noise? If that's not possible then is there another way to remove it?

[jagabo]

Apply narrow notch filters at 60, 120, 180, 240, 300, 360, and 420 Hz.