Need some workflow help - HDV to DVD

[norcim]

Equpment:
Sony HDV with HDMI out
PC: i7-2600k at 4.5GHz
HDMI Capture card (Blackmagic intensity Pro)
Video card Radeon 6870
Professional Audio mixer (has USB out)

Software:
vMix - is a software switcher. I will eventually use multi cams. Currently I will use it to stream/record from the camera and audio mixer.
Pinnacle Studio 15

What I need help with.
vMix is a software switcher and records the stream from the camera.
It can record in AVI, MPEG, WMV (1080P or 720)

A. How do I take this large recording and get it to DVD? (formats , encoding, rendering, all new to me)
B. I would like to fit 2-4 hours of footage on a dvd.
C. I have multi DVD drives so I need to burn many copies.

I need to get all this done within an hour of the event ending. I know this is not realistic but any input would be appreciated.

Thank you for any input.
Long time fan of this site since my file sharing days.

[Cornucopia]

???

Why aren't you transferring your HDV material the normal, lossless way - via Firewire?

Scott

Btw, tape is linear and any tranfer is inherently realtime. Any idea that you can do it otherwise is unrealistic.

[norcim]

I am not transferring from tape. It is a live stream and firewire is limited in cable length. In the future I will connect multiple cameras for real time switching (software).



I should start with the first step.
Currently I am importing the stream and saving as avi using MJPEG. (1080p or 720)
With final goal being fast processing into a DVD output, is this the right format/codec to use?
I have option to save as mpeg or wmv also.

The next step will be do compress the find into the DVD format?
Which program should I use for this with fast processing to consider?

[aedipuss]

you may as well save it as dvd spec 720x480 mpeg-2 to begin with. the less re-encoding the better the final result will be. mpeg-2 can be edited losslessly by many programs, with only the cuts, joins, and transitions being re-encoded. mjpeg does not render to mpeg-2 very well and requires a lengthy re-encode. 2 hours on a single layer dvd-r is about the limit with the results being of ok quality, any more and the video will start looking bad.

[norcim]

I think vmix allows me to save in mpeg2. I will check.
Which codec is best to use?
Will the final dvd play full screen on an HDTV?

[aedipuss]

mpeg-2 would be the codec. widescreen(fullscreen on a 16/9 display) will depend on the encoder. if it's set to anamorphic with no black bars it should.

[sanlyn]

B. I would like to fit 2-4 hours of footage on a dvd.

As noted earlier, 2 hours on single-layer DVD is just about the limit for decent quality DVD -- and we're not talking about anything better than "OK". That would be a bitrate of about 4600 VBR. About 1hr 45-min would make a visible improvement (bitrate 5.2 VBR). 3 to 4 hours of MPEG2 compression is no better than VHS tape + digital artifacts and horrible motion control. If you must have more than 2 hours, use DVD+R dual layer.

[olyteddy]

The quickest workflow would be to use a DVD recorder to make a master DVD that you can duplicate a bunch of times in that hour after the event.

[norcim]

So far I have
- you may as well save it as dvd spec 720x480 mpeg-2
- mpeg-2 would be the codec. widescreen(fullscreen on a 16/9 display) will depend on the encoder. if it's set to anamorphic with no black bars it should.
- bitrate 5.2 VBR -About 1hr 45-min would make a visible improvement

Questions?
-does anamorphic mean no black bar but a picture that does not look deformed? (circles will look circular)?
-I only have choice or 4 or 8 VBR and 16 seams to create a file too large. 8 look a bit grainy but I was looking in monitor. Final DVD will be good at 4?

[aedipuss]

do you have a clue what a dvd is? what resolution is needed? what formats are required? how to author a dvd? have you ever made one? why pray tell do you feel qualified to do this?

[norcim]

I am learning and I have a project to complete. I'm looking for right set of setting to allow the software and hardware to do the work.

I know what formats, resolutions and dvd authoring is. I am clueless about bit rate, frame rate, best encoding.

[norcim]

Ok after hours of study and testing I have one question.

The camera outputs at 1080i. I will record in MPEG2 de-interlaced.
What resolution should I choose to fit well and look good on an HDTV? (1hr DVD)

[sanlyn]

Why are you deinterlacing?

[aedipuss]

What resolution should I choose to fit well and look good on an HDTV? (1hr DVD)

unfortunately with this statement you have confirmed you still have no clue what a dvd is. a normal dvd can't have a resolution of anything other than 720x480 for ntsc or 720x576 for pal.

and not to burst your bubble further or anything, but you can't have more than one black magic intensity pro in a computer so you won't be having multiple cams that way.

[Janssen]

DVD has a few allowed resolutions, but they are all useless except the highest ones, indeed 720x480 for ntsc (north america) or 720x576 for pal (europe). Since you prolly live in north amarica, go for 720x480. From my own experience, there is never any reason whatsoever to have a lower resolutions since, at any bitrate, they are inferior in quality to 720x480.

For example, if you had a lot of hours to cram into a DVD, one could try a lower resolution like 352x240 and double the bit rate. Since the image is actually half the size, you can double the bit rate for the same file size. But the results are catastropic and it is better to go with 720x480 at ANY bitrate, including low ones. And to put the final stake in lower resolutions, a lot of software out there do not support them.

The concept of bit rate is easy to understand and refers to the simple fact that: the higher the video quality, the higher the file size. The lower the quality, the lower the file size. As you increase the bitrate, the resulting size is bigger. That's all, it's a quality control switch. The overall bitrate is video + audio, since you choose which bitrate you need for both audio and video (both together = your total bitrate).

If you want to get into the maths of bitrate, i've wrote a post about it here: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/348196-Converting-AVIs-to-DVD%5B5%5D?p=2178905#post2178905. Some ppl use simple "bit rate calculator" programs to tell them which bitrate they should use to fill a DVD to capacity at the highest bitrate, in my case i do it on paper.

While you need to encode mpeg-2 video for dvd, for audio you have the choice of ac3/wav/mp2. I think mp2 is pal-only, so that leaves ac3 and wav. Wav files are way too big, so that leaves AC3.

AC3 supports not only stereo, but also surround. Audio bitrate range: from 128Kbit/s to 384Kbit/s. 192Kbit/s is the most common bitrate. AC3 is the best format to use in a DVD.

The audio must also be encoded at 48khz instead of the traditional 44khz.

To encode my videos into DVD format, i use ffmpeg because it gives me the best control over the conversion options.

This is my ffmpeg encode line:

ffmpeg -i myfile.avi -target ntsc-dvd -aspect 16:9 -b:v 854k -flags +ilme+ildct -top 0 -acodec ac3 -ar 48000 -ab 128k -y myfile.mpeg

You can download ffmpeg here: http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/ (Get the latest static build).

The 48000 means 48khz, 854k is the video bitrate (go much higher), 128k is the audio bitrate (can try 192k). Ilme/ildct tells it to interlace the video, because a dvd is traditionally interlaced. Haven't tried it any other way.

It's also important to mention that using a good DVD authoring program, it will NOT re-encode the resulting mpeg file, since it's already DVD-compliant. It should only _transform_ it into VOB files ready to burn on DVD. If it takes more than 5-10 minutes to do the transformation, then the program is actually re-encoding it. For example, WINAVI video converter will always do the re-encode, while tmpgenc or dvdlab pro won't (tmpgenc is the simpler of the two).

[Janssen]

Also, you cannot go infinitly high on bitrate. There's a limit, something like 9000, but i'm no expert on that issue. Also, if you go that high, the DVD might skip. I don't know the reality-based threshold that would be the upper red line. Maybe around 7000, 7500bkps video+audio combined, if i were to guess.

Which is prolly the bit rate you will use if you have 1hr DVD, since it can reach that high.

It's past that point that as your dvd gets longer, you must reduce bitrate for it to fit.

[norcim]

If nothing else, what I have learned so far allows me to understand and appreciate the advice that is provided here.

Thank you very much for the information.

Summary
My camera source is 1080i. I will encode to mpeg2 on the fly. Resolution will be set to 720x480. Bit rate for audio 48khz and bit rate for video 8 Mbps
I will author this file directly to DVD without re-encoding (I use Pinnacle Studio 15 - will check if it re-encodes)

[Cornucopia]

@Janssen, you've put out a LOT of info there for the OP, however MUCH of it is inaccurate.

#1 All DVD resolutions are MANDATORY to be supported. If they aren't supported (for playback) by software, the software is CRAP. If software to encode/author doesn't support it, use BETTER software.

#2 I could give you clear side-by-side comparisons where, if you had 5 1/2 hours' worth of video to put onto 1 DVD-5 disc, you and everyone else would clearly want to go with the 1/2D1 aka 352x480 (or more likely 1/4D1 aka 352x240) video running at 1.61Mbps than a 720x480 video running at the same bitrate.

#3 The business about upping the bitrate for lower res files is NOT what one would do and is confusing to a newbie. One should ALWAYS maximize your bitrate for your available space in order to maximize the quality.

#4 Your "formula" for bitrate corresponding with quality is terribly incomplete. It does not take into account image complexity, resolution, codec, codec tweaked options, nor nr preprocessing. That's why there is NO SIMPLE formula for bitrate vs. quality. There is of course a SIMPLE formula for bitrate = filesize * runningtime. BTW, you make no mention of Filesystem overhead nor subtitle/metadata WRT bitrate, and those should be taken into account also.

#5 One should NEVER Interlace a video if the source was progressive. That is inaccurate, lazy encoding that will give poor quality. If the source is Interlaced, the whole chain should be interlaced, if the source is progressive, the whole chain should be progressive. Exceptions to that would be where it is clear a copy of an Interlaced source needs to be shown on a progressive-only system - then either IVTC (preferrably) or DeInterlacing should be done, depending upon the content.

For the OP's situation, an Interlaced HD source is going to SD. There are ways to maintain the interlacing, but there are also ways to deinterlace and retain the fluidity (higher framerate), but neither of these are done particularly well with stock consumer software. They are best done by appropriate AVISynth scripts.

I would also NOT recommend re-encoding "on the fly" for the OP, rather to use 2-pass VBR encoding to widescreen AR 720x480 Interlaced (using an AVISynth script that takes advantage of "AssumeFrameBased+SeparateFields+Weave"), for best smoothness & compatibility.

Scott