Panasonic 1980P and vertical jitter on EP playback

[justin81]

I have some very old VHS tapes that were, unfortunately, recorded in EP mode on an older machine that I no longer have. I have two decks that I work with primarily for my projects:

- JVC SR-V101
- Panasonic 1980P

The JVC will play these EP mode tapes, but can not track them if it's life depended on it. Even manual adjustments with the remote control do not help.

The Panasonic will track the tapes automatically, almost perfectly, with one minor exception - there is an occasional vertical "jitter" that comes and goes randomly. Maybe a jump or two every 30-45 seconds of playback. Manually adjusting the tracking during this jitter has no effect, other than completely throwing off the tracking.

I have tried playback with Panasonic's TBC on and off and there doesn't seem to be much obvious difference.

I'm particularly perturbed because I know this "jitter" could be easily cleared up by the JVC's "video stabilizer" feature. In fact, experimentation has revealed this to be the case. However, I can't use the JVC because the tracking is horrible.

I've scoured the manual for the Panasonic in hope that the unit has a similar feature to the JVC's video stabilizer, but it doesn't appear that it does.

So, I'm asking here as a last resort. My gut is telling me I may just have to use the Panasonic and deal with the jitter as it is the "lesser of two evils" but I'm open to other alternatives, or even other VCR recommendations.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the signal is being run through a DataVideo TBC-1000 which feeds to my capture card, an ATI All in Wonder.

[lordsmurf]

You'll have to misalign a JVC deck on purpose.
That would do it. But this is not an easy or quick process.

I've done it many times.

[NJRoadfan]

Might be worth getting a 2nd JVC and "breaking" it. One thing to try (if you haven't) is repacking the tape. Fast forward the tape all the way to the end and then rewind back to the beginning. It can solve tracking problems with tapes that have been in storage for a long time. Also remember that JVC's video stabilizer disables the Digipure TBC/DNR as they can't be used together. The only exception is the DVHS HM-DH40000U which does allow both features to be enabled.

[robjv1]

Good suggestions here. If the JVC plays them fine aside from the tracking, misaligning it (or another deck) to track the tape better is probably the path of least resistance. As far as trying other VCRs, you may have to take a picture quality penalty, but there may be another solid tracking used consumer VCR (see the main thread on this, probably a Panasonic, Quasar or a Sharp) that'll also play it without the jitter.

I've had a few tapes where small vertical jumps just cannot seem to be fixed by any VCR I throw at it, so I often end up manually repositioning the video frames within the frame. For a tape where the jitter occurs every 30 - 45 seconds, I imagine you'd want to pull your hair out by the end of that.

[lordsmurf]

Gor a tape where the jitter occurs every 30 - 45 seconds

As a note, this most often happens due to recording VCRs that tried to find the "sweet spot" of the tape at all times while recording. JVC VCRs are really about this, when CALIBRATION is enabled during recording. The calibration setting in general is very not-good.

@OP: Be sure to try with and without Calibration on the current VCR setup you have.

I've discussed this issue far more in-depth in guides and forums posts at digitalFAQ.com through the years. I also suffer from this problem on some tapes. Breaking a JVC 3800U is the fix, though it comes at penalty of going filter-less. Clean-up is done post-capture, via Avisynth instead, as best as possible. JVC DVD recorders are often in use, too, on this workflow, to pre-filter chroma noise issues.

[justin81]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I will try some of these first.

One more thing that just occurred to me. I remember watching these videos years ago on a Sharp VCR and they tracked fine. Unfortunately, I don't have the Sharp VCR anymore either.

I know some consumer level Sharps have a feature called "Super Picture" that is supposed to clean up EP mode recordings. Does anyone know if a "prosumer" version exists?

I've looked around and found some evidence via online auction sites and old reviews that some of the same Sharps with "Super Picture" offered "quasi-SVHS" playback. Did these have an S-Video out?

I wouldn't mind trying a Sharp with Super Picture (like I said, I think a Sharp tracked these originally), but did Sharp ever manufacture a unit with S-Video out and Super Picture?

[lordsmurf]

I know some consumer level Sharps have a feature called "Super Picture" that is supposed to clean up EP mode recordings. Does anyone know if a "prosumer" version exists?

That was a crappy sharpener -- a "detail enhancer" that made grain uglier.

I've looked around and found some evidence via online auction sites and old reviews that some of the same Sharps with "Super Picture" offered "quasi-SVHS" playback. Did these have an S-Video out?

No.

I wouldn't mind trying a Sharp with Super Picture (like I said, I think a Sharp tracked these originally), but did Sharp ever manufacture a unit with S-Video out and Super Picture?

Doubtful. Consumer VCRs were almost entirely composite output.

[justin81]

Lordsmurf,

How would I mis-align the JVC?

Thanks in advance.

[lordsmurf]

By adjusting the guide posts. One post, a quarter turn at a time.

I generally don't feel comfortable helping others on this, because it's easy to screw up the VCR (misaligned so badly that a pro is needed to realign it).

If you are hamfisted, you can also break the guides, or unscrew it entirely.

This takes finesse and patience.

[sanlyn]

I know some consumer level Sharps have a feature called "Super Picture" that is supposed to clean up EP mode recordings. Does anyone know if a "prosumer" version exists?

I've looked around and found some evidence via online auction sites and old reviews that some of the same Sharps with "Super Picture" offered "quasi-SVHS" playback. Did these have an S-Video out?

I wouldn't mind trying a Sharp with Super Picture (like I said, I think a Sharp tracked these originally), but did Sharp ever manufacture a unit with S-Video out and Super Picture?

I'd take lordsmurf's advice on features like Super Picture: it's bad enough that many consumer VCR's touted such enhancements as "improvements" when they really do little more than make garbage of the original recording. What's not so surprising is that consumers actually like distortion. The idea behind video archiving and restoration is to clean the garbage, not celebate it. But garbage sells, so there you are. Meanwhile there are hundreds of Avisynth and VirtualDub filters, not to mention upscale apps like AfterEffects and others, that can either help undo the way consumer VCR "features" wreck video, or, conversely, that can wreck video far beyond the best of "enhancement" features.

That said, then yes the Super Picture feature could oversharpen and oversaturate as well as pump contrast to make problematic VHS even uglier. If that's what you want, Super Picture can do it. I had two old Sharps with that feature, and I can verify that Super Picture works as advertised. Fortunately it can be disabled. My experience with playing with old Sharps in the past was that they varied widely in PQ and playback performance, with the more expensive units being the most reliable (as with any VCR brand), and the latest SHarps being the worst performers. IMHO even the best of the Sharps is over rated, but the better ones do track just about anything you feed it.

I don't know of any "prosumer" Sharps. The prosumer market was not a price level the company targeted. Anyway, most prosumer VCR's were designed for cleaner playback to begin with.

If you are thinking that Super Picture can improve faded/discolored video, it can't. It makes it look worse. The best way to repair old tapes is to play them with the cleanest VCR you can find and couple playback with a good proc amp and tbc, then post-process to clean up the mess.

[robjv1]

Yes, it seems like most consumer VCR 'picture enhancing' features that came out between the mid 1990s and the end of the line for VCR manufacturing did the same kinds of things -- oversharpen the image to the point where it's very grainy/blocky, pump up the saturation, and pump up contrast to the point where it blows out the whites and crushes the blacks.