Need some basic help with video frame size, please

[True Colors]

Here is my issue......

There is an old TV show that I record using with my Tivo Premiere DVR. The show is standard def. When it comes on the television it fills up my entire screen.

I record this show with my Tivo Premiere. Then I use software from VideoRedo(TV suite) to edit these files and to strip out the unwanted content. My output files are regular ole, mpeg.

FYI.... the frame size on the output files shows to be 528x480.

Now, when I take these regular mpeg files from VideoRedo and upload them back to the Tivo, it plays fine and it does fill up the entire screen. The audio is good. Everything is good.

However......

If I take the mpeg output file, and then run it through Handbrake in order to convert the files to h.264/MP4, and THEN send that to the tivo to be played, the tivo creates unwanted black bars on the sides of the video.

How can I fix this? Is there some way to configure the settings in VideoRedo, or Handbrake, so that the files which come out of Handbrake appear as 16:9 full screen on Tivo?

I am thinking that perhaps if I can somehow resize the frame from 528x480 to something which is a 16:9 ratio then perhaps that will fix this issue.

Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, intelligence, etc. on this topic would be very welcome, if anybody has any knowledge on this subject.

Many thanks.

TC

[sanlyn]

FYI.... the frame size on the output files shows to be 528x480.
I am thinking that perhaps if I can somehow resize the frame from 528x480 to something which is a 16:9 ratio then perhaps that will fix this issue.

If the source image is not as wide as 16:9 (such as 4:3 and similar "square" formats, or wider such as CinemaScope), the image won't fill a 16:9 screen. You stated that you play this SD video thru another player and it fills your 16:9 screen completely. It sure does, because you're not playing it correctly and the original image is either enlarged+cropped or stretched. Think of this: if you have a 16:9 empty box, and you put a smaller 4:3 box inside of it, why would you expect the 4:3 box to fill the 16:9 container? This is like asking how you could "change" one pint of water to completely fill a gallon container.


[Attachment 14062 - Click to enlarge]

[True Colors]

I like the way that the 16:9 image looks on my TV. That is my personal preference. Do not judge me on this, okay

The original TV broadcast gets stretched by my Tivo to fill up the whole screen.

If I take that Tivo recording, and offload it to my PC, and then edit it with VideoRedo, then I can take the output file and upload that back to the Tivo. The Tivo will stretch it and it will fill up the whole screen.

However, if I go from Tivo, to PC, to VideoRedo, and then to Handbrake...... then upload that output file back to the Tivo, it does NOT stretch it enough to fill up the whole screen. For whatever reason, there are black bars on the side.

So somewhere along the line, I think I could solve this by changing the frame size from 528x480 over to some sort of 16:9 aspect ratio.

For what it's worth......... ALMOST NOBODY watches a 528x480 show on television. Almost every TV in the world is going to stretch a 528x480 frame to something...... either 4:3, or 16:9, or something.

TC

[jman98]

I like the way that the 16:9 image looks on my TV. That is my personal preference. Do not judge me on this, okay

No. Too bad if you don't like being judged on this. But if it makes you feel better, probably 90% of Americans agree with you on this. But I'd say that this only proves that most people in the US are dumb. I'm American and live in the USA. I'm allowed to say that.

528x480 is pretty bizarre, so yes of course nobody watches that. I don't own Tivo so I cannot comment on whatever bizarre things it does when recording. I can't really explain why your encodes are treated differently, but I can point out that you could just push the stupid zoom button on your remote to fill the screen and get on with your life. And I can also point out that it is possible to actually encode your bizarre resolution videos to true 16:9 by throwing away some of the picture. But really man, just push the feakin' zoom button and get on with your life. You obviously don't care that things are stretched so it's just a waste of time to tell you how to truly encode to 16:9.

[poisondeathray]

One way might be to remux it with something like yamb and set the aspect ratio to 16:9 NTSC.

Zoom button will "stretch" in all directions, but presumably you just want horizontal stretch


The way you would do it with x264 is to encode using --sar

The sar value would be about 1.6 or 8/5

("sar" is another name for "par", just different naming conventions)

16:9 ~= 528/480 x 8/5

You might be able to do it with handbrake using the command line box

[sanlyn]

I like the way that the 16:9 image looks on my TV. That is my personal preference. Do not judge me on this, okay

No judging. It's your video, do what you want with it. I process mine to display as the creator intended.

The original TV broadcast gets stretched by my Tivo to fill up the whole screen.

Read your user manuals. There are many ways to adjust the display. However, mif you like everything stretched, just leave the settings alone.

So somewhere along the line, I think I could solve this by changing the frame size from 528x480 over to some sort of 16:9 aspect ratio.

I don't use this software, but I'm certain that other members who know how to do what you want can offer suggestions. You might try changing the frame size to DVD standard 720x480 and setting the aspect ratio in your softare to 16:9. Mmm, no, that might not work as intended. Others might want to chime in on this question.

For what it's worth......... ALMOST NOBODY watches a 528x480 show on television. Almost every TV in the world is going to stretch a 528x480 frame to something...... either 4:3, or 16:9, or something.

TC

That's not worth very much. It's nonsense and totally incorrect.

[poisondeathray]

I don't know about tivo, but some set top boxes record non standard MPEG2 frame sizes, and the AR is correct . e.g. some record 544x480 , some 480x480, but have the correct AR information to "stretch" to 854x480 on playback for 16:9 . Maybe this is one of those cases?

Maybe if you post sample or at least the gspot info on the original sample it would provide more info

[sanlyn]

Ah, 854x480. Yep, that's the image size I was trying to relocate (480 x 1.788888 = 854). Then encode at 720x480 @ 16:9. Thanks for reminding me.

[True Colors]

One way might be to remux it with something like yamb and set the aspect ratio to 16:9 NTSC.

I installed yamb on my computer and I have it running, but I do not see any option for changing the frame size of my video. Can you please tell me how to do that?

Also...... the real purpose of my thread was not to argue the merits of changing frame sizes. If anyone thinks that it is dumb to change a file to a 16:9 ratio, then guess what? That is fine by me. You are fully entitled to your opinion. But there is no need for you to argue that here. It is just a waste of your time and mine.

I just want the easiest way to change the frame size of my video. That's it. If anyone can please help me with that, then great.

TC

[poisondeathray]

select the create mp4 option, push the add button, select the video, select (highlight) the video track, push properties botton, pixel aspect ratio 16:9 NTSC, push next

make sure you are using 2.1.0.0 beta 2

IMO, a better and more reliable way is to use --sar x:y when encoding. Not only is it faster with fewer steps, it will work on everything. Changing AR with yamb or with DAR values doesn't always work (some devices won't respect container flags, when you encode it into the stream it works regardless of container)

[sanlyn]

Gosh. Everyone I know just uses the image control buttons on their TV remote.

[True Colors]

select the create mp4 option, push the add button, select the video, select (highlight) the video track, push properties botton, pixel aspect ratio 16:9 NTSC, push next

make sure you are using 2.1.0.0 beta 2

IMO, a better and more reliable way is to use --sar x:y when encoding. Not only is it faster with fewer steps, it will work on everything. Changing AR with yamb or with DAR values doesn't always work (some devices won't respect container flags, when you encode it into the stream it works regardless of container)

Okay, the first version of YAMB that I loaded was the old version...... 1.6, or something like that.

When I installed the 2.1.0.0 beta 2 that you recommended, I did go through the settings that you recommended.

When YAMB loads the file that I am trying to edit, it gives me the following error message:

"YAMB has detected one stream not compatible for the Creation. That's why it has been unchecked in the List above"

The file that is unchecked is an audio file...... the description reads AC3.

Then when I try to render the output file with the new 16x9 frame size ratio, it does not work.

Does YAMB have a problem with AC3? Or is there something else that I should be looking at?

Thanks,

TC

[poisondeathray]

Does YAMB have a problem with AC3? Or is there something else that I should be looking at?

nope, yamb works fine ac3 (1.6 doesn't, 2.1 does)

are you using the files made from handbrake ? what does mediainfo say about them? (view=>text)

[True Colors]

The files that I am trying to edit with YAMB were made by VideoRedo.

I will get you the media info for you when I get back home.

TC

[True Colors]

Here you go.......

General
Complete name : test file.mpg
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 40.8 MiB
Duration : 55s 856ms
Overall bit rate : 6 122 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Duration : 55s 856ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 808 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 5 970 Kbps
Width : 528 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.765
Stream size : 38.7 MiB (95%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 55s 712ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.28 MiB (3%)

Text
ID : 224 (0xE0)-608-1
Format : EIA-608
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

[poisondeathray]

It's mpeg2 program stream. You would use yamb for h.264/ac3/mp4 (ie. whatever handbrake put out)

Since it's mpeg2 you can use dvd patcher or restream

(And it looks like it's supposed to be 4:3...)

[True Colors]

poisondeathray....... thanks for all of the tips. Your knowledge is appreciated.

I ran the DVD patcher app that you suggested. It did not really work the way that I had hoped. It did change the frame size to the larger size that I wanted. However, instead of stretching the video, it basically just added one big large black pillar to the right side of the image.

Also, I played around with the restream app as well. It seems like a more complex program to use. Evidently, it makes you demux your audio and video, then edit the video, then remux the two back together again. That seems like it might end up being overly time consuming, and quite frankly, I do not have any experience with that type of method anyway.

In the midst of my experimenting, I did find a possible solution to my problem that I will post here, just in case anyone else ever stumbles across this thread and wants to do the same thing that I am doing.

VirtualDub is able to resize frames easily. Really, really easily. All you have to do is adjust the settings and tell it what you want the new frame size to be.

Video -> Filters -> Add -> Resize

I did this and it allowed me to change the frame size to 854x480. Super simple.

My main concern with this is that VirtualDub seems to force the output container to be AVI. I am wondering if this will result in too much loss of quality? Does anybody have any opinion on this?

As of this point, here is my process....

1 record content onto tivo DVR

2 transfer content from tivo onto my PC

3 use video redo software to convert tivo files to mpeg

4 use virtual dub to change the frame size to 16:9 ratio

5 use handbrake to convert content files over to MP4/h.264 files

Thanks,

TC

[sanlyn]

So....couldn't one resize/stretch the original in Avisynth to an appropriate 16:9 frame, then encode as plain SD MPEG with free HCenc? Does it have to be BluRay? I've seen plenty of SD video played on BluRay machines that looked pretty good. I wouldn't think a DVR recording would be that great to begin with for working as BluRay. The DVR I rented for one day made horrible recordings IMO, even in HD. And the way broadcasters make a mess of video using low bitrates, I should think the original could stand some treatment in Avisynth anyway . Of course, that kind of cleanup wouldn't be practical for a great many recordings.

BTW, we have no idea what the original looks like.

[poisondeathray]

VirtualDub[/url] seems to force the output container to be AVI. I am wondering if this will result in too much loss of quality? Does anybody have any opinion on this?

If you use a lossless codec, or uncompressed (no compression) there will be no compression quality loss except for the colorspace conversion (vdub converts to RGB when using most filters) . If you have interlaced content, you can resize normally , since it's horizontal only . (Any vertical resizing of interlaced content requires interlace aware techniques, or bob deinterlace, resize, reinterlace)

As of this point, here is my process....

1 record content onto tivo DVR

2 transfer content from tivo onto my PC

3 use video redo software to convert tivo files to mpeg

4 use virtual dub to change the frame size to 16:9 ratio

5 use handbrake to convert content files over to MP4/h.264 files

You can do the last 2 steps faster, without the extra steps of resizing exporting a lossless intermediate if you use the --sar x:y parameters I mentioned above. You might be able to do something in handbrake with forcing the AR options as well. I don't really use handbrake, but I'm fairly certain you should be able to

[poisondeathray]

I ran the DVD patcher app that you suggested. It did not really work the way that I had hoped. It did change the frame size to the larger size that I wanted. However, instead of stretching the video, it basically just added one big large black pillar to the right side of the image.

Also, did you forget to use the correct size ? 528x480

You need to enter the custom horizontal : 528
vertical: 480
AR: 16:9

[poisondeathray]

In handbrake, picture tab, anamorphic=> select custom . You need newer versions of handbrake (older ones didnt' have this option)

You have to uncheckmark "keep aspect ratio" , because I think you are distorting it (you want to disregard the original 4:3 AR)

Play with the numbers until the "display width" reads 854x480 or thereabouts. Check the cropping parameters (handbrake tends to do weird cropping, or check custom and set to zero). Try it out on a small sample first so you don't waste time . You should be able to do this directly from the videoredo output step (skipping the vdub step)

[True Colors]

You can do the last 2 steps faster, without the extra steps of resizing exporting a lossless intermediate if you use the --sar x:y parameters I mentioned above.

I am not familiar with this....... is this a command line instruction for handbrake?

TC

[True Colors]

I tried playing around with Handbrake to get it to resize the frame of my video, but I could not figure it out.

Does anybody here have experience with using Handbrake to change frame sizes?

TC

[poisondeathray]

You can do the last 2 steps faster, without the extra steps of resizing exporting a lossless intermediate if you use the --sar x:y parameters I mentioned above.

I am not familiar with this....... is this a command line instruction for handbrake?

TC

for x264 . handbrake uses a modified x264 build, so it's not directly translatable. There is a command line box, but the syntax is different. Or you can use a different GUI than handbrake, or play with the AR options

[poisondeathray]

I tried playing around with Handbrake to get it to resize the frame of my video, but I could not figure it out.

Does anybody here have experience with using Handbrake to change frame sizes?

TC

Did you want to change the frame size (resize) ? Or just the DAR ? Earlier I thought you said you didn't want to resize...