AVCHD memory card shooting makes logging edits-to-be-made difficult

[sdsumike619]

Having filmed on miniDV for so long, the splitting of the files on my memory card is my biggest complaint about my new Canon XA-10. To me, it makes logging any kind of edits-to-be-made during filming difficult. With miniDV, it was easy to write on a piece of paper: "edit @ 0:14:36" but with this memory card recording you can't exactly do that anymore.

In addition to the splitting of the files when they reach a certain size, each time you press the pause button during the shoot, a new file is written to the memory card. So on the LCD screen it shows the clip number that you're on and that's great, but on the memory card, they get filenames with timestamps so it isn't even easy to mach up "clip #5" with whatever is on the memory card when you capture it to the computer. Sure it would be easy enough to write down, "Edit at 2:43 into Clip 5" but when you put all these clips on the timeline, you can't use the master timer in the NLE because clip 16 might be for example, 25 minutes into the shoot, but the edit might be only say 30 seconds into that particular clip. Whereas with the tape, I could drop the entire event onto the timeline and go to each time spot I recorded in my log and make the quick edits, whatever they needed to be. 27 minutes on the tape was at 27 minutes on the NLE timeline in other words... Does it make sense?

Has anyone come up with a solution for logging such edits to make post production easier when shooting AVCHD on a memory card?

[Cornucopia]

Ok, so AVCHD, that's max ~28Mbps. That means you have to have over ~20 minutes before a clip splits (assuming @ FAT 4GB limit)- that's a LONG take. Otherwise, you'll have one clip per take (between pause button pushes).
Ok, so you mark the timestamp of each take on your log WHEN you're about to push the rec/pause button. Every file-based clips I've ever worked with (including EL CHEAPO cameras) include timestamp capability in their metadata. So compare your logged timestamp with the timestamp embedded within the clip and there's your list of takes.

What's so hard about that?

And if you need to calculate what 11 minutes & 44 seconds into a particular clip are, use a timecode calculator (see LINK or similar).

Scott

edit: So instead of doing "edit @ 00:14:36" based on a start timecode of 00:00:00, you just use Time Of Day (edit at 14:14:36 aka 2:14:36 pm). You don't really need a nomenclature like "clip #5" anymore - who cares if it's clip #5 or #6 or #28. All you care about is matching them up with your log & which is the right one.

[sdsumike619]

Ok, so you mark the timestamp of each take on your log WHEN you're about to push the rec/pause button. Every file-based clips I've ever worked with (including EL CHEAPO cameras) include timestamp capability in their metadata. So compare your logged timestamp with the timestamp embedded within the clip and there's your list of takes. What's so hard about that?

How do I mark the timestamp on my written log if I don't know what the timestamp is? All the camera shows on the LCD screen is the time in hours, minutes and seconds. Actually, the clip/scene number only shows while paused. When you start recording, then it shows the time. The camera is a Canon XA-10. Either I'm missing something very obvious here, or I'm going to regret leaving miniDV tapes...

[Cornucopia]

Time of Day.
Look at your watch (or phone) if you need to.

Scott

[sdsumike619]

That still doesn't make sense in my mind. I'll run through it:

I'm filming along for say 5 minutes and then the subject on camera makes a mistake that will need to be edited, the camera doesn't stop rolling, the subject just pauses for a moment and says what he's supposed to say and we carry on. I look at my watch and see that it's 7:35PM, so I write down on my piece of paper 9/24/2012 @ 7:35PM to note the edit. So 3 days later, I've captured the files, joined any that were split due to size and drop them onto the timeline in Vegas. The question still remains - Other than watching the video from beginning to end, how do I jump to where that edit needs to take place?

[budwzr]

This reminds me of the old "bear crappin' in the wood" jokes. Right?

I would say the scene becomes the index, and once it's loaded on the timeline, then the assigned timecode would take over. So I guess you would say "the scene with the girl talking on the phone ...".

[sdsumike619]

not familiar with bears crappin in the woods haha

Once the scene is loaded on the timeline, it takes on the timeline time counter doesn't it? Meaning, that the time code during the filming (9/24/2012 @ 7:35PM) becomes irrelevant once it is placed on the timeline and I'm still at square one not knowing where the time of day from my watch is located on the timeline.

By the way, when I say scene, I don't mean scenes like you would see in a movie where everything is different. Every "scene" in my video will look the same as there's no change of actors, or location.

The problem still remains: with miniDV tape, 27:34 on the tape is 27:34 on the timeline as long as I put the event at 0:00:00. So I used to do that and make all my edits at the noted time locations, then, add whatever to the beginning and end, lower thirds, etc and I was done. With the AVCHD files, I don't know what I'm going to do and it seems I'll just have to figure it out from the experience.

[Cornucopia]

A. Stop joining clips prior to import into Vegas

B. Find the timecode in Trimmer, and split into subclips if that helps

Most of the better NLEs allow you to refer to either the source or record timecode ("GoTo"). Don't remember about Vegas...

Scott

[sdsumike619]

Thanks, I will look up the things you mentioned. I never used the trimmer before or really understood what it was for. I'll also look into the timecode options in the software.

[sdsumike619]

Found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_logging

[budwzr]

... I'm still at square one not knowing where the time of day from my watch is located on the timeline.

Oh, I see you found the answer.

[budwzr]

Most of the better NLEs allow you to refer to either the source or record timecode ("GoTo"). Don't remember about Vegas...

Oh course Vegas does that kind of simple-azz stuff. , but not something I use myself. I edit each piece of footage separately. Never made an actual film or movie.

It's easy to become compartmentalized, and quite common to not know a thing about what goes on in the cubicle next door.

All I know is those crazy "people" next door have fired up the catshit again. Seems like every week they're burning that stuff now. Must have a lot of cats over there.

I have to close the window, I'm getting a bit tipsy, and I think I'll order a pizza, hehehe.

[budwzr]

Thanks, I will look up the things you mentioned. I never used the trimmer before or really understood what it was for. I'll also look into the timecode options in the software.

The Trimmer creates a subclip, which is a fixed length event. Useful, because it can be looped, slomo'ed, etc., but it's easier to create the subclip right on the timeline, and never use the trimmer at all. It's just a fancy way to make a subclip.

The easiest way to work in Vegas is to build up like a pyramid, using nested project files as rows or prerenders. Then you can always roll back.

And never do a whole lot of rendering at the end. Pre-render along the way. Just work it up little by little, saving all along the way.

[sdsumike619]

I'm not familiar with "pre-render" Guess I'll have to look that one up too. I always just do all the editing until everything is just right, and then either render the whole timeline, or if I need separate files, I just select the loop region and render sections as needed. Starting to think I might benefit from one of those VASST training DVDs......

[budwzr]

Watch the free videos at the Vegas site.

[sdsumike619]

Which Vegas site are you referring to budwzr?

[budwzr]

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/training

The free stuff is under "Webinars".

[budwzr]

I'm not familiar with "pre-render"

It simply means to flatten as much of your work, as you can, as you go. So you don't get a giant render at the end.

By "flatten" I mean commit changes when warranted. Get rid of the dead wood too.

Some FX can require considerable CPU power, and if they're nested into something else, things can get complex, and that's when stuff happens.

Use duplicate instances of media that reference a single source, rather than creating new media. Learn to "Paste" attributes between media instead of creating new.

All these little things, and there's a lot more, add up to a nice stable environment that produces predictable rock-solid results again and again. I'm not a pro, but I'm a very seasoned veteran. Let the dummies take point, right?

Vegas's greatest strength is also its Achille's heel. You can throw almost anything on the timeline, and a lot of newbies do, to their later chagrin.

Get your ducks (files) in order FIRST, before you even crank up Vegas, and that's half the battle. Use AviDemux to conform your media first if you have a pesky file. Yeah, don't put up with the BS, transcode that squirrel.

Also, Vegas has a very useful feature called the "Video Buss Track". This track is like a mastering console in an audio shop. Use it to put the final polish on a "project-Wide" level.

[sdsumike619]

I finally got the answer to this logging issue (from another forum):

Options | Preferences | Video | Show source frame numbers on event thumbnails as: | timecode, and, Thumbnails to show in video events: | All

This will show timecode as a tooltip-style overlay directly on timeline clips... zoom in and it will show frame by frame

So no matter where the event is sitting on the timeline, the original timecode from that scene/file will display as an overly on the thumbnails in the timeline. So if I write on my paper, "edit @ 3:47" and 3:47 happens to be 25 minutes into the project, then I can still jump right to it. So I think this finally solves the problem.

[Cornucopia]

I didn't remember Vegas' steps, but that's just what I was telling you back in post #8.

For the benefit of other, future users, what forum was that?

Scott

[sdsumike619]

Scott, right you are about your post #8; I just had trouble interpreting what exactly you were saying and of course not knowing how to find that option in the software. The forum is at dvinfo.net very helpful people just like here at videohelp.com!

[Cornucopia]

Scott, right you are about your post #8; I just had trouble interpreting what exactly you were saying and of course not knowing how to find that option in the software. The forum is at dvinfo.net very helpful people just like here at videohelp.com!

Well THAT'S never happened (not understanding me).

Yeah, I go there also on a regular basis, though don't offer/contribute as much, mainly lurk.

Glad you got it working for you. It is a different way of working but still fine.

Scott