Program that can edit WTV files w/o demuxing?

[peggypwr1]

Hello, after WMC records a program, it contains t in WTV format. DO we have a program now that can allow us to edit the segments we want into mpeg 2 w/o the need to demux the WTV file first?

[usually_quiet]

VideoReDo TV Suite with H.264 is the only program that I know of which is capable of editing .wtv files directly, although probably not .wtv files with copy-once protection.

I just remembered I have seen two other programs which can edit .wtv files, TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5 and Cyberlink PowerDirector 11, but I suspect that VideoReDo's TV Suite with H.264 is better at handling errors in the transport stream.

[jman98]

I confirm that VideoReDo TV Suite with H.264 is capable of editing WTV files and also that it cannot edit copy protected files. Whether your files are copy protected or not is up to your cable provider and the channel itself. Do note that cable TV providers are pretty stupid in general and instances are known of copy protection being accidentally turned on when it shouldn't be. Finally, shows on the four major US TV networks (NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox) should not be copy protected unless your provider makes a mistake. Channels that you have to pay extra for like HBO and Showtime probably will be copy protected. I think you can get a trial version of VideoReDo TV Suite so you can try it before you buy.

[c627627]

...and if you have no fifty bucks to spare,

1. Use this freeware: WTV converter http://forums.vso-software.fr/convert-wtv-to-dvd-new-mce-windows-7-video-format-t9479.html to convert the file to .DVR-MS

EDIT: If you have Windows Media Center installed, then you will have the following file present on your system C:\Windows\ehome\WTVConverter.exe



Right click on a .wtv file > Open With... > Choose default program >

• Windows 8 Pro: UNCHECK: Use this app for all .wtv files > More options > Scroll down > Look for another app on this PC > C:\Windows\ehome\WTVConverter.exe > Open

• Windows 7: UNCHECK: Always use the selected program to open this kind of file > Browse... to C:\Windows\ehome\WTVConverter.exe > Open > OK



*NOTHING WILL APPEAR TO BE HAPPENING *

But in the same folder where .wtv file is located, a new .dvr-ms will be created. Depending on file size, the process may take a few minutes to complete.



2. Then use this freeware: DVR-Edit http://www.jeffreygriffin.com/downloads/ to complete the edit.


Any other GUI freeware out there?

[usually_quiet]

...and if you have no fifty bucks to spare,

1. Use this freeware: WTV converter http://forums.vso-software.fr/convert-wtv-to-dvd-new-mce-windows-7-video-format-t9479.html to convert the file to .DVR-MS

2. Then use this freeware: DVR-Edit http://www.jeffreygriffin.com/downloads/ to complete the edit.


Any other GUI freeware out there?

First, the version of VideoReDo that edits .wtv directly is VideoReDo TV Suite H.264, which costs $100, not $50.

Second, there should be no need to download a .wtv to .dvr-ms converter if using Windows 7 or Windows 8 Pro + Windows Media Center. They have their own .wtv to dvr-ms converter. Just right click on the .wtv file and select "Convert to .dvr-ms format" from the pop-up menu.

Third, VideoReDo Plus is worth the $50 if editing files via an antenna with a digital TV tuner card on a regular basis. It works with .dvr-ms or .ts files, but not .wtv. I tried DVR-Edit before I bought VideoReDo and DVR-Edit does not handle transmission errors in recorded DTV streams as well as VideoReDo does. If there are transmission errors, audio and video go out of sync after editing with DVR-Edit, and files recorded via an antenna will quite often contain transmission errors.

Other GUI freeware are for .ts files, TSSniper and Mpg2Cut2, but VideoReDo Plus works far better than either of them when there are transmission errors, and it can cut on an frame.

[jagabo]

Second, there should be no need to download a .wtv to .dvr-ms converter if using Windows 7 or Windows 8 Pro + Windows Media Center. They have their own .wtv to dvr-ms converter. Just right click on the .wtv file and select "Convert to .dvr-ms format" from the pop-up menu.

Both my win7 computers with Media Center don't have that option in the context menu. But the converter program is still available in C:\Windows\ehome\WTVConverter.exe. You can drag and drop onto it. Or right click on the WTV file and use Open With -> Choose Default Program (disable the Always Use This Program... option) then navigate to the WTVConverter file and select it. Once you've done this once WTVConverter shows up in the Open With list. At least until Windows decides to remove it from the list -- which it does every now and then for some reason.

[c627627]

I have a filly functioning Windows Media Center on a Windows 8 Pro and I do not have the right click option either, nor does C:\Windows\ehome\WTVConverter.exe want to start.

I tried to open a .wtv file with it and still nothing happens. Windows Media Center is fully functioning. I would be interested in figuring out how to get it to work.

[jagabo]

I have a filly functioning Windows Media Center on a Windows 8 Pro and I do not have the right click option either, nor does C:\Windows\ehome\WTVConverter.exe want to start.

It doesn't open a window. If you just drag/drop a file on it (or use the Open With method) it creates a new file with the basename plus " - DVR-MS.dvr-ms" For example, "NAME.WTV" becomes "NAME - DVR-MS.dvr-ms" in the same folder as the WTV file. There is a command line switch which will force it to open a window while it works -- /ShowUI.

Try putting this bat file in the folder as your WTV files, then drag a WTV file onto it. You can also specify a different folder for the output file and convert all the WTV files in a folder.

C:\Windows\ehome>wtvconverter /?

C:\Windows\ehome>
Converts a recorded TV file from .wtv to .dvr-ms format.

Usage:
WTVConvrter path_to_sourcefile [path_to_targetfile] [/ShowUI] [/?]

path_to_sourcefile:   Specifies the path to the .wtv file to convert.
path_to_targetfile:   Specifies the path to the .dvr-ms file to create.
/ShowUI:              Displays a progress bar dialog box during the conversion process.
/?:                   Displays usage information.

Notes:
       - You must specify a path to an existing folder for path_to_targetfile.
       - You can use the wildcard '*' when converting multiple source files.
         The .dvr-ms files will be created with the same name as the .wtv files.
       - If you do not specify path_to_targetfile, the .dvr-ms file is created in the same location as the .wtv file.

Examples:

       WTVConverter  d:\RecordedTV\Arthur.wtv  d:\ConvertedTV\Arthur.dvr-ms /ShowUI

       WTVConverter  d:\RecordedTV\*.wtv  d:\ConvertedTV\

       WTVConverter  d:\RecordedTV\*.wtv

[c627627]

After reading your initial explanation, the .bat file was unnecessary because your initial post included crucial information that should be emphasized to every newbie doing this.

For my notes, I wrote this:


Right click on a .wtv file > Open With... > Choose default program >

• Windows 8 Pro: UNCHECK: Use this app for all .wtv files > More options > Scroll down > Look for another app on this PC > C:\Windows\ehome\WTVConverter.exe > Open

• Windows 7: UNCHECK: Always use the selected program to open this kind of file > Browse... to C:\Windows\ehome\WTVConverter.exe > Open > OK



*NOTHING WILL APPEAR TO BE HAPPENING *

But in the same folder where .wtv file is located, a new .dvr-ms will be created. Depending on file size, the process may take a few minutes to complete.

[jagabo]

You can put the BAT file (or a shortcut to it) in your SendTo folder. Then it will always be available via right click and Send To -> WtvConv.bat.

[c627627]

The bat file is most definitely useful, many thanks for posting it.


So DVR-MS files can be edited quickly but we only have one software costing a hundred bucks that can do the job without sync errors? One company cornered the market?


I understand the freeware I found works but may be problematic with over the air source footage due to sync problems? Does that also apply to cable-recorded wtv source files?

[usually_quiet]

Strange... On my Windows 7 Home 32-bit PC, right-clicking a .wtv file definitely still brings up a context menu with "Convert to .dvr-ms format" I remember that also worked when I was still using a pre-release version of Windows 8 with WMC installed. Now, "Convert to .dvr-ms format" isn't in Windows 8 Pro's context menu for .wtv files anymore (with WMC installed), although WTVConverter.exe is still present in the C:\Windows\ehome folder. WTVConverter.exe did work in Windows 8 Pro with WMC after I added it to the list of programs under "Open With".

[usually_quiet]

So DVR-MS files can be edited quickly but we only have one software costing a hundred bucks that can do the job without sync errors? One company cornered the market?

VideoReDo Plus ($50) can edit .dvr-ms files, and .ts or .mpg files recorded in mpeg-2 format. In addition to doing what VideoReDo Plus does, VideoReDo TV Suite H.264 ($100) can edit .wtv files and H.264 format video files in various containers.

TMPGEnc has added .wtv and H.264 support to its $70 editor, TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer 4, but I have not heard it deals with sync issues like VRD can. I guess VRD's products have cornered the market on that so far.

I understand the freeware I found works but may be problematic with over the air source footage due to sync problems? Does that also apply to cable-recorded wtv source files?

Yes, it can. If there are enough transmission losses you will see digital cable channels break up, just like over-the-air TV channels.

[jagabo]

The bat file is most definitely useful, many thanks for posting it.

Of course, you can create a shortcut to WtvConverter.exe in your SendTo folder instead. But you won't get the dialog indicating it's working.

Oh, and if you add Start before the path to WtvConverter in the BAT file the console window won't stay open while the program is running (the dialog box will stay open):

 Start c:\windows\ehome\wtvconverter %1 /showUI

[c627627]

I am looking at VideoReDo. Clearly superior to that freeware alternative.

When you finish editing WTV files, these are your Save As... choices, which offer save options w/o loss of original quality?

[usually_quiet]

I am looking at VideoReDo. Clearly superior to that freeware alternative.

When you finish editing WTV files, these are your Save As... choices, which offer save options w/o loss of original quality?

If you choose a Save As Option with the same video format and resolution as the original, VideoReDo only re-encodes the GOPs adjacent to the cuts, or doesn't re-encode at all if you cut on GOP boundaries. Anything with "MPEG2" in the description should preserve the same quality for for US DTV recordings.

[c627627]

Thank you. I understand all the others but what is Topfield .rec?

[c627627]

Wait, what is a GOP boundary and how is that different from a non-boundary position?

Is cutting 'on GOP boundary' a feature not found in all programs?

[usually_quiet]

Thank you. I understand all the others but what is Topfield .rec?

Topfield is a PVR product line available in some other countries. It is popular in Australia. Topfield .rec is the file format they use.

Wait, what is a GOP boundary and how is that different from a non-boundary position?

Is cutting 'on GOP boundary' a feature not found in all programs?

https://www.videohelp.com/glossary?G#GOP,%20Group%20Of%20Pictures

An MPEG-2 GOP starts and ends on an I-frame. I-frames contain all the picture information. The frames in between only contain partial picture information, describing changes relative to other frames.

For MPEG-2 video, when a clip starts and ends on an I-frame or starts on an I-frame and ends on a P-frame, it does not require re-endcoding. Most freeware MPEG-2 editors do not have the ability to encode and are limited to making those kinds of edits. Many paid editors that can cut on any frame re-encode the entire clip. Only editors that feature "smart encoding" like VRD will cut on any frame and limit encoding to the places where it is required to construct complete GOPs from partial GOPs.

[c627627]

Thank you. So to make sure that no re-encoding takes place, it this an option you would set inside VideoReDo, preventing any video re-encoding from taking pace?

[usually_quiet]

Thank you. So to make sure that no re-encoding takes place, it this an option you would set inside VideoReDo, preventing any video re-encoding from taking pace?

There is a setting that displays the type of frame selected. I use the frame type to help me set the cut points, but don't mind using smart encoding if the spot where I want to place a cut isn't an I-frame or a P-frame.

I have VideoReDo Plus, and I'm told the user interface is somewhat different than the interface than the one for VideoReDo TV Suite H.264. I know it must pain you to hear this, but you need to read the manual.

[c627627]

Posts in this thread have been extremely helpful.

Let's see if we can't figure this out. I agree with your reasoning but wanted to figure this out just so I would know how. So... in order to make sure no re-encoding takes place, if I right click, I get this, does simply selecting Single frame accomplish that goal (instead of selecting 0.x seconds option)?

I will try to get a hold of a manual and read into it more now.

[jagabo]

in order to make sure no re-encoding takes place, if I right click, I get this, does simply selecting Single frame accomplish that goal

No. Turn on the View -> Display On Screen Information option and you'll see the frame type at the top left corner of each frame. The program has options to move to the next or previous keyframe see the configuration settings. Depending on the type of video you're editing the keyframe interval (GOP size) may appear anywhere from one to several hundred frames.

[c627627]

Thank you!

You said: "For MPEG-2 video, when a clip starts and ends on an I-frame or starts on an I-frame and ends on a P-frame, it does not require re-endcoding." What about B Frame?

[usually_quiet]

Thank you!

You said: "For MPEG-2 video, when a clip starts and ends on an I-frame or starts on an I-frame and ends on a P-frame, it does not require re-endcoding." What about B Frame?

B-frames are not I-frames, nor are they P-frames, so clips starting on a B-Frame or ending on a B-frame need to be re-encoded. Clips starting on a P-frame also need re-encoding.

However, when using VideoReDo or another editor that does "smart encodong", the editor will only re-encode the number of frames necessary to produce complete GOPs to start and end the clip, assuming you are only editing the video, not doing anything more

[jagabo]

What about B Frame?

B frames are bi-directionally encoded. In a sequence like IBBP the B frames may require the P frame before they can be decoded (the decoder would first decompress the I frame, then the P frame, then the two B frames). So if you cut at a B frame the GOP must be reencoded because the P frame will be gone.

You should stop worrying about a few GOPs being reencoded. So what if a few frames lose a little quality? I'd rather see that than a half second of some obnoxious commercial blaring out at me.

[c627627]

As posted earlier, this isn't for me to look for / avoid frames but to understand how things work:

For MPEG-2 video, when a clip starts and ends on an I-frame or starts on an I-frame and ends on a P-frame, it does not require re-encoding.

When a clip starts on P-Frame or a B-Frame or ends on a B-frame, it needs to be re-encoded.

[c627627]

There are four more start-finish combinations:
B P
B I
P P
P I

re-encoded or not?

[jagabo]

I frames contain an entire picture encoded like a JPEG image. P frame contain only the changes from a prior frame. B frames contain changes from prior frames and/or later frames. That's all the information you need to know to understand how to avoid reencoding:

Any section you keep must start with an I frame. It must end with an I frame or a P frame. It cannot start or end with a B frame because reconstructing that frame will require access to prior or later frames. Without those other frames that frame cannot be reconstructed.

[c627627]

Thank you. I made this to help me remember: