Are these VCR's Super VHS machines to use for playback?

[juhok]

Please provide sources for that claim (other than Amazon review). I found no credible mention of VHS as the source.

[manono]

VHS hasn't been used for studio master tapes propably ever, not counting some highschool production.

Then you've never seen any Indian DVDs of classic films. I have dozens sourced from VHS. Some even have the headswitching noise at the bottom.

[juhok]

Hehe I confess that I haven't.

[manono]

Hehe I confess that I haven't.

You've never seen such utter garbage unless you've seen Indian DVDs. I'm in NTSC land and they're all field-blended too, from poor PAL to NTSC conversions.

[avz10]

You are in South Africa, the selection of second-hand high-end VCRs is going to be small.

I have advertised a number of times for a Panasonic NV-FS200 and only got a reply today - perhaps this time I'm lucky. I await the response.

You seem to be getting by OK with your existing VCR: is there any problem with it you haven't mentioned? What is the brand/model?

This is a cheap model- Sansui VC R253EIS. This I bought at least to play some of the cassettes. At that stage I was not thinking of converting to digital.

Is it the VCR that originally recorded most of your tapes?

No, but I do not have details- thought most was done on a Panasonic.

Apart from the probable offer in my country, I have seen on EBay in Germany a bid, but the postage will be 60 Euro. The bid is at 2 Euro now.

Any thoughts??

[orsetto]

Heh, I'm using one BNC for Y and one for C. No conversion. Don't take me for a fool.

This kind of setup for example fixed problems with cable reflection with TBC-100 (attachment)

I did ask if I was misunderstanding you: thanks for clarifying your S-Video>BNC jack modifications. The fact that you would even mention "BNC" indicated you were unlikely to be a fool. An electronic Dr. Frankenstein, perhaps, but no fool.

Your use of BNC modifications may be a bit beyond the scope of this thread, where the OP is just trying to decide whether an ordinary basic SVHS vcr with no advanced TBC/DNR filters would play his standard VHS tapes better solely because of the S-Video connections. I think most of us would agree the only accurate answer is "maybe."

But your S-Video>BNC breakout box is an interesting topic: what made you pursue it? And how do the BNC jacks connect to your PC encoder board? Does your encoder have component BNC inputs? I use the standalone TBC1000, which does not have BNC connections, and I do agree with you the video isolation can be inferior at times with either the S-Video or composite connections. One of these days I need to modify it to bypass the silly four-way splitter, several members here suggest it makes a marked improvement. I'm surprised to hear the TBC100 PC-card version has similar issues.

[orsetto]

Apart from the probable offer in my country, I have seen on EBay in Germany a bid, but the postage will be 60 Euro. The bid is at 2 Euro now.

Any thoughts??

The NV-FS200 you are watching on German eBay appears to have problems and is not working. Whenever a seller says they "can't test" a VCR, they are being sneaky: they know it is broken and hope you will be fooled into bidding by the low opening price. It is absurd for anyone selling a VCR to say they "cannot test it:" there are billions of VHS tapes in this world, it is not difficult to find one and check if the VCR can load it and play it without problems. At least this seller has told you upfront that there "may be damage," accept their warning and avoid bidding on this unit.

Remember what I have said in earlier posts: these VCRs are old and many were used carelessly so they are damaged or worn out. Both Panasonic and JVC had some manufacturing issues, leading to problems in the mechanics or electronics. The NV-FS200 in particular is prone to loading problems and power supply problems. Most will need to be examined and repaired by a technician. If you look at NV-FS200 German eBay history, a functional guaranteed NV-FS200 typically sells for 50-100 euros: anything less expensive has had upfront problems or been listed as "untested." I don't think you can expect to find an NV-FS200 in good condition for less than 60 euros + additional shipping: they are still rather valuable, and rarely available at very cheap prices. Perhaps you will have good luck with the offer you received in your country?

[juhok]

This goes indeed way offtopic, but;

The box in the image is a modded TBC-1000 with distribution amplifier removed which in effect is then just a TBC-100 board + PSU. High quality 75ohm BNC connectors are soldered directly to TBC-100 board using RGA174A coax cable. Originally I had some cable reflection problems when using DIN4/S-video connectors and this setup remedied it a bit (but not fully because of not-optimal breakout cable in the old capture device).

I got 2 analog capture devices. Blackmagic Decklink Studio and Ensemble Designs Brighteye 75. After I got BE75 the need for modded TBC-1000 is quite rare. When I do need the TBC-1000 I connect it to deck using Kramer, Extron or Silver Serpent BNC->Svideo cable (I haven't yet BNC modded my other devices which in most part have only DIN4/S-video). Because BE75 has BNC Y/C connectors by default connecting TBC-1000 to BE75 is pretty straightforward by using standard BNC video cables. If for some reason I have the need to use Blackmagics analog capture I then need 2 pieces of BNC/S-video cables which is not optimal (and BM adds one more connection to the signal path by requiring to use their breakout cable).

I plan to do BM/BE75/TBC-1000-mod comparison someday. For now I'm waiting for answer from Ensemble Designs to a few tiny bugs and also would like to have good test chart generator.

[jman98]

Please provide sources for that claim (other than Amazon review). I found no credible mention of VHS as the source.

Here you go, jackass.
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/51203/farscape-the-complete-series/
God forbid that you did a search yourself. The Wikipedia article on the show in English also mentions this.

[robjv1]

The idea that "PAL master videotapes" would be VHS is ridiculous. Propably BetacamSP (or Digibeta!) or something along the line. Wikipedia says nothing about VHS and VHS hasn't been used for studio master tapes propably ever, not counting some highschool production.

You misunderstood my point, but I accept responsibility for incorrect phrasing. Let me try again.

The BluRays were made using PAL VHS as a source as the original film elements were thrown away and NTSC and PAL VHS copies were all they had left to work from. PAL was selected because it offers higher resolution than NTSC. Please forget that I said "master" as it led to an incorrect assumption on your part and honestly it wasn't the right term to use anyway.

I'd love to see it!

I noticed on the Seinfeld DVD box-set a number promo commercials in the extras section definitely seem to have originated from VHS tapes. The Faerie Tale Theatre box-set includes a 'lost' episode that I believe was sent in by a fan, although I can't recall if the tape itself was in VHS format or not.

[juhok]

Here you go, jackass.
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/51203/farscape-the-complete-series/
God forbid that you did a search yourself. The Wikipedia article on the show in English also mentions this.

English WP article says nothing about VHS and neither does the dvdtalk article.

[avz10]

I don't think you can expect to find an NV-FS200 in good condition for less than 60 euros + additional shipping: they are still rather valuable, and rarely available at very cheap prices.

Thanks for this comment- at least this gives me an indication of the second hand price.

I will keep on looking around in South Africa, as a good model will be expensive, to ship it in for 60 Euro from Europe is a bit steep!!

Albie

[manono]

English WP article says nothing about VHS and neither does the dvdtalk article.

Are we reading the same articles? From the DVDTalk review:

Video:
I wish I could say the same thing about the video. First the good news: I've never seen this show look better, either when it was originally broadcast or on DVD. Now the bad news: the 35mm film elements could not be located and this is an up-conversion from the original PAL tapes. That means that this doesn't look great for a Blu-ray disc, but it's still an improvement. The image (with a 1.33:1 ratio for the first three seasons and a 1.78:1 ratio for the final year, as they were originally broadcast) has a lot more definition and detail than the SD counterparts. Unfortunately there is some mosquito noise in the image and some of the blacks are crushed in the darker scenes. The colors are okay, not horrible but not the strikingly vivid hues we get in the best HD presentations. Overall it's an okay looking set, but fans will want to upgrade anyway.

That doesn't necessarily mean VHS tapes? Are these BetacamSP and Digibeta tapes you mention of higher resolution than PAL VHS? I do see that the Wikipedia article says, "576i/25 frames per second PAL master videotapes were used as the source material to create the transfer, so I guess that answers my question since the effective resolution of PAL VHS is well below that.

[NJRoadfan]

That doesn't necessarily mean VHS tapes? Are these BetacamSP and Digibeta tapes you mention of higher resolution than PAL VHS?

They are much higher resolution then VHS. Both have considerably higher chroma resolution compared to VHS. This isn't all surprising either, its likely that there is no "film" source of the special effects. Shows destined to TV broadcast typically edited their CG segments using video tape. This was the case for all the modern Star Trek series and why The Next Generation Blurays are taking so long. They are recreating all the special effects in HD.

[juhok]

Answers and edits keep coming faster than I can write. @manono As I assumed you know (was it a rhetorical question?) BetacamSP and Digibeta are in a whole different league above VHS.

For the casual reader: "The Digital Betacam format records a lossless 3 to 1 DCT-compressed digital component video signal at 10-bit YUV 4:2:2 sampling in NTSC (720×486) or PAL (720×576) resolutions at a bitrate of 90 Mbit/s plus four channels of uncompressed 48 kHz / 20 bit PCM-encoded digital audio."

edit: I'm not saying Farscape was Digibeta, could be Betacam, or some other broadcast tape format, but "PAL master tape" is not a VHS. Sorry if I'm coming thru as an "jackass". I did read the links, did the google-fu, spent a lot of my time to shed some light on this, and did not find VHS at the end of the tunnel

[manono]

Answers and edits keep coming faster than I can write.

I apologize. I didn't read the Wikepedia article until after I had posted (ending with the question, "That doesn't necessarily mean VHS tapes?) And as I did more reading I decided everything you had said was correct. As you can tell from the added sentences, my knowledge in this area is lacking.

And thanks to NJRoadfan for setting me straight.

[lordsmurf]

videotapes were used as the source material to create the transfer

Lots of DVDs have been created from broadcast master tapes -- none of which are VHS. Even S-VHS is too low-grade for broadcast standards of syndicated television shows. The original Transformers 35mm film was lost in a warehouse fire. Everything we have of the G1 series is from broadcast masters. You'll often see a reference to "1-inch tape", which is a easy tell that it's not 3/4ths-inch VHS.

I'd find it impossible to believe every TV station that ever showed Farscape had misplaced all of their broadcast masters, and were somehow forced to use a VHS collection.

I'm not saying Farscape was Digibeta, could be Betacam, or some other broadcast tape format

BetacamSP is unlikely. Digital Betacam may even be unlikely. I'd look at D-1 or D-2 tape.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-1_%28Sony%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-2_%28video%29

The tapes are huge. I used to have stacks of them in my office (old job, long ago), before we migrated them all to DV and DVD. It was near-useless crap, but it needed preserving in some form -- just in case. The discs and DV tapes took up the least amount of space. A few large boxes in the corner didn't even fill a desk draw when it was completed.

I noticed on the Seinfeld DVD box-set a number promo commercials in the extras section definitely seem to have originated from VHS tapes.

Yeah, I saw that -- dreadful stuff, really. Very minimal restoration work went into those. A shame.

[robjv1]

I noticed on the Seinfeld DVD box-set a number promo commercials in the extras section definitely seem to have originated from VHS tapes.

Yeah, I saw that -- dreadful stuff, really. Very minimal restoration work went into those. A shame.

Yeah, I need to pull them out and watch again, but I remember thinking "geez, somebody went crazy with the noise reduction". It was as plastic looking as you can get and the colors were all off too. I remember being a little bit shocked that NBC didn't actually have the originals, considering they put several other bumpers and promos on that set from their master tapes. I just assumed a company that big would save *everything* for a show that big.

[Seeker47]

VHS hasn't been used for studio master tapes propably ever, not counting some highschool production.

Then you've never seen any Indian DVDs of classic films. I have dozens sourced from VHS. Some even have the headswitching noise at the bottom.

Uh Oh ! Stuff like Satyajit Ray titles too ?? I would hope that Criterion -- at least -- got access to good 35mm film elements . . . .

[manono]

Uh Oh ! Stuff like Satyajit Ray titles too ?? I would hope that Criterion -- at least -- got access to good 35mm film elements . . . .

As far as I know, the only Ray title Criterion has released is The Music Room. And it's out in very good quality on both DVD and Blu-Ray. Have they released others? Another one in very good quality is the DVD of Abhijan by the English company Masters Of Cinema (and it's NTSC). Although I was referring specifically to Hindi language films on DVDs released by Indian companies, the (Bengali) Ray films are as bad as any of them on DVD. All of his have been restored, but most aren't out in anything resembling watchable form.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film3/blu-ray_reviews54/the_music_room_blu-ray.htm

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews21/abhijan_dvd_review.htm

[Seeker47]

Uh Oh ! Stuff like Satyajit Ray titles too ?? I would hope that Criterion -- at least -- got access to good 35mm film elements . . . .

As far as I know, the only Ray title Criterion has released is The Music Room. And it's out in very good quality on both DVD and Blu-Ray. Have they released others? Another one in very good quality is the DVD of Abhijan by the English company Masters Of Cinema (and it's NTSC). Although I was referring specifically to Hindi language films on DVDs released by Indian companies, the (Bengali) Ray films are as bad as any of them on DVD. All of his have been restored, but most aren't out in anything resembling watchable form.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film3/blu-ray_reviews54/the_music_room_blu-ray.htm

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews21/abhijan_dvd_review.htm

I'm not really up on what is or is not in the Criterion catalog as of the last few years -- if anyone has a good bookmarked reference for this, please post it -- but I know DVDs of the "Apu Trilogy" exist, and would have thought those would be near the top of any Ray list. Have seen mentions in other forums of titles like "Days and Nights in the Forest" as being on DVD (which I think might be available from Netflix), so there must be a number of them around. As far as the PQ or sound, I couldn't say, though I'd like to find out.

[manono]

...but I know DVDs of the "Apu Trilogy" exist...

And the DVDs for those and any others, except for the two I mentioned earlier, are uniformly horrible.

To take just one of The Apu Trilogy, Pathar Panchali:

I don't know that I've seen a more highly regarded movie look worse on DVD. It's full of scratches and discolorations, and bacterial decay is evident in many, many instances. Perhaps the financial burden weighs in against a proper and full restoration, but the film is presented here by The Merchant and Ivory Foundation, with a note from 1994; it's a shame and a botched opportunity that no work was done on the print in the intervening decade before bringing it to this new format.

http://www.digitallyobsessed.com/displaylegacy.php?ID=5395

[avz10]

And it all started with a question about a good PAL S VHS VCR to buy.... Still loooking for the Panasonic!!

[manono]

And it all started with a question about a good PAL S VHS VCR to buy.... Still looking for the Panasonic!!

You can ask them if they'll ship to South Africa. Sometimes they'll ship out of country even if the posting says they won't. It worked for me once. And it didn't work twice. Or you can have him ship to a friend in England who can then ship it to you:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Panasonic-NV-HS1000-S-VHS-Editing-VCR-with-TBC-Timebase-Corr...item2575aefc43

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Panasonic-Hi-Fi-Stereo-Video-Recorder-SVHS-NV-FS200-HQ-/2809...item416b775691

[avz10]

I have arranged to get the Panasonic from England, if I win the bet! This is only in a week's time.

But, I have kept on advertising in South Africa and a guy phoned me this pm about a JVC HR S8960.

I looked on the internet and could not find if this machine has TBC/DNR

we are talking only about a few very specific models made by JVC and Panasonic- not all the SVHS vcrs ever sold. What makes the tapes look "better" is a feature called TBC/DNR, which means Time Base Corrector with Digital Noise Reduction

Can someone help??

Albie

[orsetto]

According to a JVC -provided model comparison chart and a (Polish-language?) user manual I found with a Google search, yes, the HR-S8960 does have the desirable DigiPure TBC/DNR feature. Apparently its also a fairly recent 2003 model: unusual, as most TBC/DNR models date from the mid-1990s.

[avz10]

I eventually bought the JVC HR-S8960 VHS player.

A few questions:

This is the connection fittings at the back.



Am I correct to connect an RCA cable to my Canon Legria 40 which I use to convert AV to DV?

I want to capture in AVI- what program is the best??

I have used WinDV in the past and also Adobe Premiere Pro CS6. I have a 2 TB external HD. Previously the audio was often out of sync- should I rather capture on one of the hard drives of my PC and then copy to the HD? A problem might be that the external HD is connected to the desktop by USB.


I want to save these files as AVI for future use, as MPEG might also go out of fashion??? Apart from space, what is everyones opinion or should I capture in MPEG?


I have an Intel Core i5-2300CPU@2.80 GHz; 4 GB RAM; 64 bit.



Thanks for any comments!

[danno78]

I tested in the past comb filter from camcorders and the comb filter is really poor. You should avoid using composite (yellow RCA connector) and use S-Video when is available.
USB HDD have no issue with DV stream, is fast enough. If the space is not a problem then save them as DV.

[avz10]

Thanks Danno

To get it 100% clear- you imply that I should use these in stead of the RCA cables?





Any comment on this?

I want to capture in AVI- what program is the best??

I have used WinDV in the past and also Adobe Premiere Pro CS6.

Thanks

[manono]

To get it 100% clear- you imply that I should use these in stead of the RCA cables?

Yes.

I want to capture in AVI- what program is the best??

Use any lossless codec, Lagarith, HuffYUV, whatever.