VC-1 stream in MeGui: directshow error

[Ennio]

Hi everybody

When I open the AVS scrip creator in Megui and load a VC-1 videostream I get this message in a Direct Show Error window:

"Unable to render the file.
You probably don't have the correct filters installed"

I have Haali splitter and ffdshow installed. ffdshow VC-1 codec is set to wmv9. Also tried "libavcodec" instead but the error-message remains.

The VC-1 stream correctly opens in VidCoder though but I like to be able to open it in Megui.

Is there a solution to this?

Cheers

Ennio

[El Heggunte]

If I understand you correctly, you need a parser for VC-1 elementary streams.

LAV Splitter is one of them. Arcsoft's Demuxer is another option.
At last, there is the infamous VC1esparser.dll by Microsoft, available in two versions ---
the crappy one, from the VC-1 SDK, and the less-bad one, from Sonic CineVision PSE2.

As a final and overdue note, friends don't let friends use the "opus magnum"
of the clueless n00b [<= clicky]

http://doom10.org/index.php?topic=47.0

[Ennio]

Thanks El Heggunte. Question up front: what is a parser? What is parsing? Is it decoding?

I like MeGui for a number of reasons.

In the main GUI it's so easy to set output-format to RAWAVC which gives me the sole .264 videostream I need further. In x264 config GUI, I can easily set "AVC level" to 4.1 which I always use and "Target Playback Device" to Blu-ray which I use a lot. I don't know where I'm able to adjust/set these things in VidCoder.

Further I like MeGui's bitrate-calculator very much. I can set a custom output filesize and with setting the container to m2ts, it's my experience that, using it's calculated bitrate to transcode and remuxing to BD, the size is nearly exact as what I gave in as manual size.

I tried AVCHDCalculator. I cannot set a manual filesize and the calculated bitrates just are different than those of the MeGui calculator.

Of course I can stay using MeGui's calculator only and use the bitrates in another GUI.

I know all these things can be done (with the proper commands) in cli. I learned quite a bit already reading eg. the x264 settings wiki page and some basics and blu-ray specifications/compatibility in this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154533
In time I wanna learn to comprehend these commands properly and create x264 cli scripts myself. For now, I wouldn't know where or what to begin with and things are waaay to busy now anyways.

Reading your link about MeGui being outdated, what GUI would you recommend that uses the latest x264 encoder?


Cheers
Ennio

[jman98]

A lot of programs are "outdated" but that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't still use them. Just something to think about.

Please note that if you are actually working with interlaced VC-1 that you are going to have a LOT of problems trying to encode it. Just ask the guy who wrote BDRebuilder about that one. I definitely suggest you use something like MediaInfo to see if your source file is interlaced VC-1.

[El Heggunte]

Yes, post a MediaInfo report, like jman98 suggested.

Since "VC-1 file" can mean both an AP WMV9 elementary stream and a container that contains a VC- 1 elementary stream, you should have been more specific when describing your problem.

Regarding Avisynth, you could use FFmpegSource2 instead of DirectShow, but like jman98 has already warned, it's of no use for interlaced WMV9.

Regarding DirectShow, there is no "error-proof" method for building a DS graph, so that sometimes Avisynth's DirectShowSource() cannot build a graph that works, and shows us some unhelpful error message. If you take the time to learn how to use GraphStudio, you can always save a functional playback-chain as a standalone .GRF file, and then feed DirectShowSource with it

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/DirectShowSource#Opening_GRF_files

[El Heggunte]

......
I have Haali splitter and ffdshow installed.

Drop Haali, and use AV Splitter or LAV Filters instead. Haali Media Splitter is well-known for generating non-functional playback-graphs for MPC(-HC ) and/or Avisynth.

Even FFMS2 does not need Haali, IF you take the time to remux the (M2)TS files into MKVs or MP4s.
Also, the year is 2012, therefore nobody uses OGM files anymore

Besides, HMS has become abandonware, even Baldrick refuses to update its download page with the latest build from CoreCodec's site

[Ennio]

MediaInfo says this about the VC-1 file:

Format : VC-1
File size : 26.8 GiB

Video
Format : VC-1
Format profile : Advanced@L3
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy


However in the meantime I tried another thing I heared about. I remuxed the stream into a mkv file with mkvmerge. This mkv I could import in MeGui. Transcoding with x264 to mp4 went ok. I demuxed this mp4 file into h264 stream with mkvextract. After renaming it into .264 (so taking out the "h" in the extension) I could import it into multiAVCHD. Things seem ok now. I don't understand why this works though. In the end it's the same elementary stream that is to be encoded?

Drop Haali, and use AV Splitter or LAV Filters instead...

I will do that with a question up front: I understand that Haali is needed for both multiAVCHD and BDRebuilder, 2 programs I also use. Will any of these suggested replacements work on them? Or can/must I use both?
I will dig into GraphStudio in time, El Heggunte, thanks. I'm way to busy right now.

Maybe I missed something but I still don't know which up-to-date or recommended x264 and GUI you would advice.


Thanks
Ennio

[jman98]

Your video is progressive VC-1 so as you found out by remuxing to MKV, it should work OK. I don't know exactly why it didn't work before, but at least you don't have the problems inherent in interlaced VC-1.

BDRebuilder's author says it will not work without Haali. Again, just because a program is out of down does NOT mean you can't still use it. You missed nothing. I see a lot of bluster from El Heggunte above but no recommendations on a replacement for MeGUI.

[Ennio]

Thanks jman98,

MeGui doesn't install something. Now, for being able to take advantage of the newest x264 encoder, wouldn't it be possible to remove just the x264.exe and the x264_64.exe files in MeGui's "tools\x264" folder and replace them with the latest? Or am I thinking to simple...


Cheers
Ennio

[El Heggunte]

MediaInfo says this about the VC-1 file:

Format : VC-1
File size : 26.8 GiB

Video
Format : VC-1
Format profile : Advanced@L3
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy

OK, so it is a "pure" or "raw" .VC1 file.

However in the meantime I tried another thing I heared about. I remuxed the stream into a mkv file with mkvmerge. This mkv I could import in MeGui. Transcoding with x264 to mp4 went ok. I demuxed this mp4 file into h264 stream with mkvextract. After renaming it into .264 (so taking out the "h" in the extension) I could import it into multiAVCHD. Things seem ok now. I don't understand why this works though. In the end it's the same elementary stream that is to be encoded?

As I tried to explain, there is a difference between a video stream without a container and a video stream inside a container. A "pure" VC-1 file needs an appropriate source/splitter filter before it can be decompressed. Since your system does not have a VC-1 parser, Avisynth cannot apply "DirectShowSource()" onto raw VC-1 streams. When you remuxed the VC-1 file into an MKV container, MeGui could open it, because the required MKV filter was available.

I understand that Haali is needed for both multiAVCHD and BDRebuilder, 2 programs I also use. Will any of these suggested replacements work on them? Or can/must I use both?

Well, since you have various programs which ( unfortunately ) can't live without Haali's filter,
just add LAV Splitter and AV Splitter to your collection , instead of simply replacing Haali with bettter alternatives.

Maybe I missed something but I still don't know which up-to-date or recommended x264 and GUI you would advice.

Apologies for disappointing you this time, but
I am no big fan of GUI-suites for CLI-applications or something.
Because many of them are bloated or/and they don't let the end-user understand exactly what's happening, what they can do, and especially what they cannot do. As Mats Hogberg liked to say,

"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for life."

[Ennio]

... just add LAV Splitter and AV Splitter to your colection ...

OK, thanks. Will add the 2 splitters.

... As I tried to explain, there is a difference between a video stream without a container and a video stream inside a container. A "pure" VC-1 file needs an appropriate source/splitter filter before it can be decompressed. Since your system does not have a VC-1 parser...

In my answer to your first post I asked what a parser/parsing is, but got no answer. I wondered if it was the same as decoding. Now understanding that a pure elementary videostream has to be "parsed" before it can be decoded, my question still stands: "What is parsing" then?

"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for life."

Totally agree. Just don't have time right now...


Cheers
Ennio

[El Heggunte]

In this case, "parser" is the same as a "source filter" OR a "splitter". I admit I chose the word "parser" only because of a filename, though (VC1ESParser.DLL)

The truth is, certain types of elementary streams are not so "raw" as they may seem They contain GOP headers, frame headers, some metadata, whatever. In this way, they can be "translated" properly for a decompression filter even when they exist outside of a "real" container (AVI, ASF, MKV, MP4, MPG, M2TS).

[jman98]

Ennio - Rather than using El Heggunte as your teacher and guru, just keep using MeGUI. I stand by my earlier statement - I see a lot of bluster here. What he fails to understand is that time is important to many of us and "good enough" is acceptable rather than achieving perfection perfect. I'm afraid he's one of those guys who knows so much that he has forgotten how to relate to others that don't know as much as him. He really should be actively participating in that ridiculous ongoing thread with over 900 posts that zerowalker has started where after 1 year of trying he's STILL at the starting point. That sounds exactly up El Heggunte's alley - a guy who wants perfection so badly that he can't even get anything done and who's willing to listen to endless suggestions about "better ways" to do everything.

[El Heggunte]

@ jman98: be welcome to my Ignore List.

Long answer:

If you think you're more helpful than I am, you could start by replying faster than I --- and this is not incredibly difficult, because I am incredibly slow at typing.
Also, you could have dropped your unnecessary warning about "interlaced VC-1", if you had paid attention to the following:

ffdshow VC-1 codec is set to wmv9

Besides, you also could also have told him "wtf" I tried to say with the word "parser".

In the end, the OP managed to solve the problem on his own, but YOU could have shown him the "best" way to go, IF you had been faster AND better than I.

In the end, it seems I've been much less unhelpful to the OP than you, Mr. JMan.

[El Heggunte]

FWIW: the same elementary stream as 3 posts above, but now "parsed" by LAV Splitter:

[Ennio]

Ok I installed both AV Splitter and LAV Splitter. MeGui returned with the same error described in my 1st post. I played around with the filters' configuration but am not 100% sure what I'm doing here exactly. Can somebody help me out with how to set this up properly?

Thanks in advance
Ennio

[Guest34343]

An alternative to the DirectShow approach is DGDecNV (which also handles interlaced VC-1 without any problems too, BTW). Of course, you need an nVidia graphics card, but it's worth considering if you do have one. You won't have to bother with any remuxing or any other such silliness. DGDecNV is supported by MEGUI as well.

Don't follow the link that this forum offers you, as it leads to the obsolete DGAVCDec.

http://neuron2.net/dgdecnv/dgdecnv.html

[Selur]

did you try FFmpegSource as suggested at the beginning of the thread?

[Ennio]

did you try FFmpegSource as suggested at the beginning of the thread?

No, I wouldn't know how to use it. A quick google tells me it can be used as an AviSynth plugin like DirectShow. I wanna try it though.
Now, on this site http://code.google.com/p/ffmpegsource/downloads/list I don't know what to download and to do with the file. Can you explain please?

Cheers
Ennio

[Selur]

iirc Megui comes with FFMpegSource and there's some option to tell it to use it,.. (I guess one user who uses MeGui can help )
http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-160454.html might helpt

[somespirit]

install ffdshow then open its VFW interface, there find VC-1 option and make VFW for microsoft VC-1 decoder

now you can open VC-1 in MeGui via DirectShow

[Ennio]

iirc Megui comes with FFMpegSource and there's some option to tell it to use it,.. (I guess one user who uses MeGui can help )
http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-160454.html might helpt

In MeGUI's file indexer's source-browser one can choose to set type of file to "All FFMS Indexer supported files". In your link it was about not being able to open a mkv container, with which I'm having no trouble. In fact, remuxing to mkv is my work-around solution in this case. I just can't open the elementary VC-1 stream in the indexer. Even with the recommemded splitters installed

@ somespirit: thanks, will try

Ennio

[hello_hello]

Ennio (sorry if some of this is stating the obvious to you),
generally there's two ways to open files for encoding using MeGUI. From the File/Open menu, or by opening the AVIScript creator and choosing the source video. Generally the former method should take you directly to the file indexer, the appropriate one chosen automatically, you queue the indexing job and run it, the video is indexed, the audio is extracted if you picked that option, the AVS Script Creator opens along with a preview window, and all is well in the universe. If you try to open an "unsupported file" this way (ie an elementary stream) you need to change the drop down box to "all files". I didn't have an elementary vc1 stream to test, so I just extracted a h264 elimentary stream and MeGUI defaulted to indexing using DGAVCIndex when I tried to open it, and happily indexed it, so maybe give that a go in preference to DirectShow.

When you open the video by selecting it as the input for the AVS Script creator you're given an extra option which lets you choose the method for opening it. If you choose the File Indexer rather than DirectShow you'd probably find MeGUI using DGAVCIndex to index it the same way as above. Unless you know you want to open video via DirectShow for a particular reason, it should probably be kept as an "only if nothing else works" option.
Not having a vc1 elementary stream handy, I changed the extension of my h264 stream just to see if MeGUI would at least try to get along with it. With the extension changed to vc1 it still opened for indexing (I didn't actually try to index it that way) and it also opened via DirectShow, but getting stuff to open via DirectShow is really a "system" issue, not an MeGUI specific one.

And of course..... if absolutely nothing else works, stick the stream in an MKV.


Just some thoughts after skimming through this thread.... as an MeGUI user.....
MeGUI is one of the few GUIs which keeps all the tools it uses pretty well updated, including the x264 encoder. If in MeGUI's options, you switch to using the "development update server" you'll get the newer versions of all the goodies fairly soon after they're released. Of course you may also find yourself experiencing the occasional bug in one of them which needs to be fixed, but even so, generally if a component/tool used by MeGUI is found to be problematic, the problem is quickly reported, the offending tool will be downgraded on the update server and any time you subsequently run MeGUI it will apply the downgrade as an update. MeGUI also keeps backup copies of previous versions of all the utilities it uses, so if nothing else you can manually restore an older version of one if need be.
As FFMSIndex hasn't exactly been problem free lately, I've found myself switching between older and newer versions a few times according to which one will get along with the files I'm trying to index.

I'm far from being an expert on encoding, but I've actually learned a fair bit through using MeGUI (using AVISynth and plugins etc) because while MeGUI does what most GUI's strive to do.... semi-automate the process and allow novices to encode etc..... it also gives you total control by not trying to hide anything from the user. It's probably the reason why MeGUI is considered to have more of a learning curve than other GUIs. Ultimately, MeGUI just opens and indexes files, extracts the audio etc and creates an avs script to use for encoding, but you're free to choose which tools to use when appropriate, or modify it's scripts any way you desire. To my way of thinking, it's probably as close to being "the best of both worlds" as a GUI could get.

[hello_hello]

In MeGUI's file indexer's source-browser one can choose to set type of file to "All FFMS Indexer supported files".

That's when trying to open video directly from the File Indexer window, yes? Maybe I missed the real problem...... so you've tried opening the vc1 stream directly from the File Indexer window?

Selecting "All FFMS Indexer supported files", or "All DGAVCIndex Indexer supported files" won't reveal any vc1 elementary streams as best as I could tell, neither will selecting "All Supported Files", but selecting "All Files" will, and if my fake vc1 elementary stream is anything to go by, MeGUI will then open it for indexing using DGAVCIndex.

[Ennio]

An alternative to the DirectShow approach is DGDecNV (which also handles interlaced VC-1 without any problems too, BTW). Of course, you need an nVidia graphics card...

I don't have a nVidia card. Maybe in the (near) future. At first hand it strikes to me as strange to need a special kind of videocard to decode a mediafile... Thanks though, I'l keep it in mind.

...open its VFW interface, there find VC-1 option and make VFW for microsoft VC-1 decoder...

I don't understand somespirit. The VC-1 decoder is set to " wmv9". What do you mean with " make VFW for microsoft VC-1 decoder"? Am I missing something?

@ hello_hello

Almost anytime I can open a file directly in MeGUI's main interface. Now with this one (with the drop down box to "All files"), I get this message:
"AviSynth cript error: DirectShowSource: couldn't open file ...\***.vc1: Cannot play back the file. The format is not supported.

When I open the file in the AVS script creator (again, I can only select the file with the drop-down box set to "All files") I get the Direct Show Error stated in my 1st post: You probably don't have the correct filters installed.

When I try to open the file in the file indexer (and again, I can only select the file with the drop-down box set to "All files") the file indexer GUI returns with everything grayed out: nothing happens.

I was hoping to be able to open it with the 2 recommended AV and LAV Splitters installed. Maybe there's something wrong in their configuration, with which I can use some help then.

I have updated MeGUI with the development servers but the issue remains the same.

Other work-around can be to manually type a proper - "standalone" - AVS script and import that one in MeGUI. I wouldn't know how to do this and can use a proper example. Maybe AviSynth needs some plugins I don't have yet...

MeGUI is one of the few GUIs which keeps all the tools it uses pretty well updated, including the x264 encoder...

Ah, that's nice to hear.

...semi-automate the process and allow novices to encode etc..... it also gives you total control by not trying to hide anything from the user...

I agree. You can watch and set everything. Play around. As I said earlier it's the only x264 GUI that I can set blu-ray compatibility and AVCHD level. And I love it's bitrate-calculator.

Thanks for your time hello_hello


Ennio

[Guest34343]

I don't have a nVidia card. Maybe in the (near) future. At first hand it strikes to me as strange to need a special kind of videocard to decode a mediafile... Thanks though, I'l keep it in mind.

You should definitely keep it in mind, because you will discover that DGDecNV is the only solution that can directly and reliably open this kind of file (VC-1 elementary) and provide frame accurate serving of it via an Avisynth script, as well as provide GPU-accelerated resizing and deinterlacing, proper handling of pulldown, consistent user experience for AVC, MPEG2, and VC-1, etc. But go ahead and struggle for a while.

[somespirit]

when you have ffdshow installed in Program Group in Start button we have

- Video decoder configuration
- VFW configuration

so you have to run - VFW configuration - and there choosing for VC-1 - wmv9

next step is to open your VC-1 video in MEGui using DirectShow

[hello_hello]

When I try to open the file in the file indexer (and again, I can only select the file with the drop-down box set to "All files") the file indexer GUI returns with everything grayed out: nothing happens.

I don't know if that means the indexer won't work with the file or there's something else wrong.
I guess if you do the same with an elementary h264 stream and it works normally, the problem's the vc1 stream and muxing it into an MKV first is the thing to do. I'd probably just live with doing that, but if you have the same problem with the h264 stream then maybe it's an indexer or MeGUI problem.

I don't actually know what happens if DGIndexNV is enabled in MeGUI's options but it's either not installed or you haven't paid for it, but it might be worth checking it's not enabled and causing the indexer to open greyed out. It's under the Extra Program Configuration tab.

[Ennio]

so you have to run - VFW configuration - and there choosing for VC-1 - wmv9

next step is to open your VC-1 video in MEGui using DirectShow

I have set this to wmv9. No luck opening vc-1 stream in MeGUI.

I guess if you do the same with an elementary h264 stream and it works normally, the problem's the vc1 stream...

With a h264 stream I have no problem. I've done this frequently.

...I don't actually know what happens if DGIndexNV is enabled in MeGUI's options but it's either not installed or you haven't paid for it, but it might be worth checking it's not enabled and causing the indexer to open greyed out. It's under the Extra Program Configuration tab.

It was not checked. After checking it MeGUI downloaded some updates. Still not working though...

...You should definitely keep it in mind...

Well, I don't mind muxing just this VC-1 stream (or the few I will encounter) into mkv for transcoding.

Besides this VC-1 stream issue I read some good things about CUDA nVidia cards. Now still using my old GeForce 6600 which is purring fine btw with my good old EIZO CRT. In the near furure I mean to look for a new video-editing package and I read that certain software needs/appreciates certain cards. I have to dig into that and maybe there'll be a match to use a new nVidia.

For now, I'll struggle for a while

Thanks to all

Ennio

[Guest34343]

When you go shopping for your new nVidia video card, make sure to get one with a VP5 or greater PureVideo engine. VP5 is way faster in decoding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_..._.28HD.29_GPUs

The card has a hardware cell that performs the video decoding. In some scenarios this can free up CPU time for the encoding part of a transcoding task. I mention this because you remarked that it seemed strange that a decoder would depend on the video card.