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  1. Member
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    Hello,
    Let me preface this by saying that I'm not very computer savvy at all. I have old home videos on DVD-R that I want to edit down to one dvd. It seems to me that I need to rip the dvds to my computer, use some software to edit them, and then burn a new dvd. The videos are already not very high quality, so a very high quality rip is a must. I have tried WinX DVD Ripper and was not impressed with the quality. Then, I edited the movies in Windows Live Movie Maker and tried to make a DVD with Windows DVD Maker, which I have concluded cannot work with 4:3 movies because the final dvd had black bars on the side and stretched everything vertically. I'm running Windows 7. If anyone knows what software is good for this type of project, I would appreciate any help.
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  2. If these are home movies you don't need to decrypt them, just use drag and drop or "send to". Windows Live Movie Maker does work on 4:3 content, the black bars on the side are normal when viewing on a 16:9 screen. You should just use DVDShrink to edit and install DVDDecrypter to burn. The old adage applies: garbage in...garbage out, if the source is poor quality then so will the output.
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    The problem is that my tv is 4:3, not 16:9, and I still see the black bars. Also, the rip wasn't good enough quality anyway.
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Don't be like the other newbies who continue to confuse Ripping with Ripping+Converting.

    When you RIP from a disc, it is just transferring the data to your Hard Drive. With un-encrypted discs such as those used for home movies, you could even simply do it by File Copying in Windows Explorer.
    As such, Ripping is a lossless process, so NO change in the quality takes place. GIGO or BIBO (beautiful in = beautiful out).

    If you use a "ripper" that is really a ripper+converter, you WILL ALWAYS lose quality (at least some)! WinX DVD ripper is just one such as those.

    Since you are going from DVD->edit->DVD, you don't really need (or WANT) to change your ALREADY ENCODED MPEG2 files. That would take additional time, use up space, lose quality, etc.
    Use an editor that allows for I-frame edits ("Direct Stream copy" style), or uses "Smart Rendering" of MPEG2 assets (where the only thing re-compressed would be non-Iframe cuts, or transitions, effects, etc.).

    Windows Live (or Dead) Movie Maker CANNOT do this. Use a different (read BETTER) editor for the job.

    Scott
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    Sorry, didn't see the rest of your post. I know the quality isn't going to be better than the original, but with WinX it was far worse than the original. Does DVD Shrink rip DVD's as well?
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  6. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    If your original movies were from VHS, they SHOULD have been 4:3. As such, when viewed CORRECTLY with a DVD player + HDTV (16:9 screen), you SHOULD see pillarboxing (black bars on the left + right). If not, you're not doing something right.

    Scott
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    To use file copying in internet explorer, don't I have to already have the files on my machine?
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  8. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ophiiii View Post
    Sorry, didn't see the rest of your post. I know the quality isn't going to be better than the original, but with WinX it was far worse than the original. Does DVD Shrink rip DVD's as well?
    Yes (DVD Shrink can, DVD Decrypter can). And ANY ripper could be used, but MOST should NOT be used because so many of them being billed as rippers really are ripper+converters, and that's what is getting you into quality trouble.
    Like I said, you don't even need a dedicated ripper software for this kind of job, since your discs aren't encrypted. All you have to do is drag+drop the IFO/VOB files in Explorer.

    Scott
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  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ophiiii View Post
    To use file copying in internet explorer, don't I have to already have the files on my machine?
    "Internet Explorer" is a web browser (don't use)
    "Windows Explorer" is a File Manager (use it).

    Just like you would be copying files from your USB flash drive to your PC, you are this time copying the files from CD/DVD/BD to your PC's hard drive.
    No, they don't "already need to be there". If they did, what would be the point of copying them again?

    Scott
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    I don't have IFO or VOB files, though, all I have is DVDs. Or will I see those files when I put the DVD in my machine?
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    Please excuse my ignorance. So can you recommend any editing software other than Windows Movie Maker?
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    So put the DVD in my machine, use Windows Explorer to drag the file into DVD Shrink to edit it, and then use DVD Decrypter to burn the new DVD?
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  13. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    1. Put DVD in PC
    2. "Open" disc in Explorer, see the VIDEO_TS folder. Open it, see the VOB/IFO files
    3. Drag them from there to a folder on your PC's hard drive.
    4. Use an editing software (try any of the "Video Editors (MPG/DVD)" listed in the tools section) - I recommend Cuttermaran, VideoReDo, Mpeg2Cut2, maybe AVIDemux (as long as it smart-renders)
    5. Author in Muxman, GuiForDVDAuthor, DVDFlick or similar freeware DVD-Authoring app
    6. Burn in ImgBurn

    Scott
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    Thanks a lot for the comprehensive instructions and for being so patient with me. That was exactly what I wanted.
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    Thanks, this thread has been really helpful. I'm in the process of just copying home video's from VHS to DVD, then from DVD to DVD copies for family members. Thought I could save tons of time by figuring out how to do this on the computer, but from what I'm reading, the
    quality won't be the same. So, back to doing it the old fashioned way. Thanks again
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    Originally Posted by obrady View Post
    Thanks, this thread has been really helpful. I'm in the process of just copying home video's from VHS to DVD, then from DVD to DVD copies for family members. Thought I could save tons of time by figuring out how to do this on the computer, but from what I'm reading, the
    quality won't be the same. So, back to doing it the old fashioned way. Thanks again
    OK, you're getting the idea but you need some help with terminology to help others avoid confusion. You can't "copy" VHS to DVD. You capture (or record) analog source to digital media. In this case you can just copy files from a DVD disc to a PC's hard drive (or to any other drive). The term rip involves more than just copying; usually it's a decrypting/decoding/encoding process of some kind, which is more than just a straight copy. To copy is to make no change in the source. To rip is to make changes that usually degrade quality in some way.

    BTW, a VOB on standard DVD is really MPEG in disguise.

    I would not recommend Windows Movie Maker for anything. Period.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 06:43.
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    Thank you for the info! I'm new to this Forum & also lingo - really appreciate learning here
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  18. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    Originally Posted by obrady View Post
    Thanks, this thread has been really helpful. I'm in the process of just copying home video's from VHS to DVD, then from DVD to DVD copies for family members. Thought I could save tons of time by figuring out how to do this on the computer, but from what I'm reading, the
    quality won't be the same. So, back to doing it the old fashioned way. Thanks again
    OK, you're getting the idea but you need some help with terminology to help others avoid confusion. You can't "copy" VHS to DVD. You capture (or record) analog source to digital media. In this case you can just copy files from a DVD disc to a PC's hard drive (or to any other drive). The term rip involves more than just copying; usually it's a decrypting/decoding/encoding process of some kind, which is more than just a straight copy. To copy is to make no change in the source. To rip is to make changes that usually degrade quality in some way.

    BTW, a VOB on standard DVD is really MPEG in disguise.

    I would not recommend Windows Movie Maker for anything. Period.
    Sanlyn I agree with you mainly, except you are also misusing RIP. To rip is to extract data off (usually) optical media onto a hard drive. It is often accompanied by decryption when necessary. The name got started originally from AudioCDs, where one could not DO a simple "file copy" because audio cds don't keep their data as FILES. An additional understanding of disc sectors and which data is the user data is required. Thus RIP. DVD/BDs don't have that much of a problem because they DO have a filesystem, but the name for the process has stuck, mainly because a true ripping app has much better technique WRT extracting error-prone data than does plain copying. Specifically, though: Ripping DOES NOT include any type of conversion! If it does, it's not just ripping, it's ripping+conversion whether it is admitted or not.

    Scott
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    I'll think that over, while I go and rip myself a cup of coffee .
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 06:43.
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  20. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    I'm heading to the bathroom to rip an aspirin out of its packet as well...

    Scott
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    Good thread. I am trying to follow the directions by cornucopia. Unfortunatly not all of the VOB files are copying from the DVD to my hard drive. Any idea why?
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  22. Originally Posted by braveheart3158 View Post
    Unfortunatly not all of the VOB files are copying from the DVD to my hard drive. Any idea why?
    The DVD is scratched or smudged? Is this a commercial DVD? What are you using to put it onto the hard drive?
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  23. Member braveheart3158's Avatar
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    Thanks manino. I tried other DVD's and another computer. All is working great. I love it. No video loss. What are all these othe files on the DVD? Some are not transferable?
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  24. Braveheart look in upper left corner of this page. "What is DVD". All info about what those files are is located there.
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Carl Sagan
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  25. Member braveheart3158's Avatar
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    Thank you I will.
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  26. Member braveheart3158's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Don't be like the other newbies who continue to confuse Ripping with Ripping+Converting.

    When you RIP from a disc, it is just transferring the data to your Hard Drive. With un-encrypted discs such as those used for home movies, you could even simply do it by File Copying in Windows Explorer.
    As such, Ripping is a lossless process, so NO change in the quality takes place. GIGO or BIBO (beautiful in = beautiful out).

    If you use a "ripper" that is really a ripper+converter, you WILL ALWAYS lose quality (at least some)! WinX DVD ripper is just one such as those.

    Since you are going from DVD->edit->DVD, you don't really need (or WANT) to change your ALREADY ENCODED MPEG2 files. That would take additional time, use up space, lose quality, etc.
    Use an editor that allows for I-frame edits ("Direct Stream copy" style), or uses "Smart Rendering" of MPEG2 assets (where the only thing re-compressed would be non-Iframe cuts, or transitions, effects, etc.).

    Windows Live (or Dead) Movie Maker CANNOT do this. Use a different (read BETTER) editor for the job.

    Scott
    Hi Scott

    I recently took your advice and copied all (200 DVD's) my VOB files from my home video's on DVD's.

    1-I recently tried a trial version of CyberLink Power director. It was able to import the VOB files. Did not go far enough with the program to render a movie, so I am not sure if I had audio with the VOB files. Trial ended. -Will the original audio be missing from these VOB files if I add them to this video editing program?


    2- I now just tried a trial version of Coral Video studio 6x. This edit program does not recognize those VOB files for import. It will allow me to import the media directly from the DVD's and converts them as mpeg or mport files, as much as I can tell. I do like this program better then the cyberlink, but would have to do each DVD all over again since I cant use the VOB files.

    So if I assume at this point, that Cyberlinnk will allow me to edit the VOB files with the original audio intact. Which of those two options will be best as far as video quality?

    Thank You!!
    Ted
    Last edited by braveheart3158; 27th Jan 2014 at 16:54. Reason: typo
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    Originally Posted by braveheart3158 View Post
    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Don't be like the other newbies who continue to confuse Ripping with Ripping+Converting.

    When you RIP from a disc, it is just transferring the data to your Hard Drive. With un-encrypted discs such as those used for home movies, you could even simply do it by File Copying in Windows Explorer.
    As such, Ripping is a lossless process, so NO change in the quality takes place. GIGO or BIBO (beautiful in = beautiful out).

    If you use a "ripper" that is really a ripper+converter, you WILL ALWAYS lose quality (at least some)! WinX DVD ripper is just one such as those.

    Since you are going from DVD->edit->DVD, you don't really need (or WANT) to change your ALREADY ENCODED MPEG2 files. That would take additional time, use up space, lose quality, etc.
    Use an editor that allows for I-frame edits ("Direct Stream copy" style), or uses "Smart Rendering" of MPEG2 assets (where the only thing re-compressed would be non-Iframe cuts, or transitions, effects, etc.).

    Windows Live (or Dead) Movie Maker CANNOT do this. Use a different (read BETTER) editor for the job.

    Scott
    Hi Scott

    I recently took your advice and copied all (200 DVD's) my VOB files from my home video's on DVD's.

    1-I recently tried a trial version of CyberLink Power director. It was able to import the VOB files. Did not go far enough with the program to render a movie, so I am not sure if I had audio with the VOB files. Trial ended. -Will the original audio be missing from these VOB files if I add them to this video editing program?


    2- I now just tried a trial version of Coral Video studio 6x. This edit program does not recognize those VOB files for import. It will allow me to import the media directly from the DVD's and converts them as mpeg or mport files, as much as I can tell. I do like this program better then the cyberlink, but would have to do each DVD all over again since I cant use the VOB files.

    So if I assume at this point, that Cyberlinnk will allow me to edit the VOB files with the original audio intact. Which of those two options will be best as far as video quality?

    Thank You!!
    Ted
    Welcome to the world of editing lossy encoded video and re-encoding to lossy media over and over, lowering the quality bar each time. I'm not even going to suggest that all that stuf should be done with lossless decoded media -- the average user has no idea what that means, even if it is the only way to maintain the quality you started with. A couple of tips:

    Best thing to do with Power Director: uninstall it.

    Back on the 17th of July 2012, Cornucopia suggested several good apps that can pretty much be used for lossless or near-lossless editing. Such applications are called smart-rendering editors. If someone knows if the cheapo version of Sony is a smart-renderer with MPEG, let us know, but I don't think it is. Smart-rendering editors with fancy features cost lots of $$$$. Check some of Cornucopia's suggestions from 18 months ago. They will be listed in the forum Tools section under MPEG and DVD editors. I you don't know how to get there, look up at the top-left side column of this web page for a directory of forum contents.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 06:43.
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  28. Member braveheart3158's Avatar
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    Arcsoft showbiz claims smart rendering. Would that be good? $79
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    Each VOB has its own audio imbedded in the file itself.

    What is it that you are trying to do with these 200 DVD's? Are you trying to make backup copies of them onto hard drives? IF you just want a "copy:, make a folder for each DVD and copy the VIDEO_TS folder in its entirety from its disc to the folder.

    If you are trying to copy VOB's to your hard drive and have the VOB's for each movie combined into a single video file (MPG), use VOB2MPG. This and similar utilities will copy and combine video+audio for the main movie only; they don't copy menus and other features. For the extras, you need everything in the VIDEO_TS folder.

    If you are trying to copy DVD material to your hard drive and then combine parts of different videos into a new video, or you are trying to cut out certain segments of a movie such as remnving commercials, etc., you need a smart-rendering editor like TMPGenc MPEG Smart Renderer. The new video will have to re-authored and burned to disc if you want a "DVD".

    If the DVD's are encrypted, you need a decypting app as well as a smart-rendering editor, plus authoring apps and burners. If the videos you are trying to combine have different frame sizes or aspect ratios, you will have to decode them, edit and combine them, and encode a new video.

    We don't know what you're trying to do with your DVD's.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 19th Mar 2014 at 06:44.
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  30. Originally Posted by braveheart3158 View Post
    Arcsoft showbiz claims smart rendering. Would that be good? $79
    Friends don't let friends use anything made by Arcsoft.

    If you insist on buying something, try one of the VideoRedo or Womble products. Have you said yet just what kind of editing you're planning on doing? There are free apps, too, that might do what you want to do, depending on what that is. Cuttermaran comes to mind.
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