Anybody do HDR video?

[budwzr]

Supposedly, HDR video will solve the problem of narrow dynamic range in regular video, but I don't see any implementation of this stuff, except in still photography.

[minidv2dvd]

there will be new cams. one promising one was amp hdr.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/25/amp-camera-records-1080p-hdr-video-you-probably-cant-have-one/

[intracube]

Supposedly, HDR video will solve the problem of narrow dynamic range in regular video, but I don't see any implementation of this stuff, except in still photography.

It depends what you mean by HDR video/photography.

The meaning seems to have evolved to mean taking a set of photo's at different exposures, combining them to produce a genuine high dynamic range image, THEN putting it through a tone mapping process which reduces overall contrast range while preserving localised contrast.
- taking multiple exposures possibly isn't necessary in a lot of cases. Taking a single photo, but under expose it to capture more highlights might do.

I'm not a fan of 'tone mapping'. IMO, most processed images loose a lot of realism - taking on a painterly look. The look might be described as hyper-real; exaggerated textures, edges, but with a weird flat look to the image. If the effect is turned up further, unsharp mask type artefacts become noticable.

When shooting digitally, stills or video, I often underexpose 2/3 to 1 stop (occasionally more) then apply an S-shape curve to the whole image/video. This reduces the contrast range in the highlights, but does so across the whole image. It reproduces some of the look of film and avoids the strange look of tone mapping.

[budwzr]

Yeah, agreed that it's an easily abused medium. I've seen some of the garish examples.

I have taken a regular single still, made a copy, then adjusted highlights on one and darks on the other, then composite like Intra said, an S curve, and it does make the image pop. I'm talking faux HDR here, not actual f-stop changes.

I'm thinking of trying to accomplish this as a "look" or FX, that can be cooked up on the timeline, rather than spending on a new camera, if there even IS one.

I like the crushed blacks look, and I like oversaturated Technicolor, like on the movie "Hobo with a shotgun". I'm thinkin that faux HDR-type compositing could open a door to some pretty interesting "looks".

Hey, we're on the internet now, so there's no rulz, right? We the people decide what we like now, not Lou Wasserman.

[budwzr]

You know, Ansel Adams was obsessed by tonal range. I don't know if he did compositing way back when, but he certainly would immediately understand HDR.

I've seen some really awesome HDR-processed photography and it literally pops with detail and information. And I've seen it used as a creative tool too.

To me, HDR is an FX because it alters what the sensor recorded.

[budwzr]

@Intra - So this "tone mapping" is some kind of blending of similar adjacent pixels? Yeah, that would be bad.

It's funny, I underexpose too and use the "highlight tone priority" (or whatever the name) setting on my camera. And I also have a ND filter to cut the sun back.

A friend of mine has a big wedding picture on his wall that he paid good money for, and some of the face highlights are blown. And he doesn't even know anything like that, so he thinks it's No.1 Top Phghky! And so I have to act like it's a good picture.

What about those people that shoot RAW? Do they just create whatever they want from their memory? Hahahaha, stupid.

[budwzr]

there will be new cams. one promising one was amp hdr.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/25/amp-camera-records-1080p-hdr-video-you-probably-cant-have-one/

Hey Puss, I was thinking of redoing your avatar. It looks ugly there next to my pretty one. You want some balloons, or leaves?

Wait a minute, I thought that was Aedipus. Or is it?

[intracube]

I have taken a regular single still, made a copy, then adjusted highlights on one and darks on the other, then composite like Intra said, an S curve, and it does make the image pop. I'm talking faux HDR here, not actual f-stop changes.

Yep, I've done that. It's tricky to do with video as any masks/selections would need to be animated. But with tracking software readily available, it's doable.

I'm thinking of trying to accomplish this as a "look" or FX, that can be cooked up on the timeline, rather than spending on a new camera, if there even IS one.

There isn't a camera that can do this out of the box. All a camera can do is take video that will stand a lot of processing without falling apart. I've been surprised how far I can push my HFS21 without getting objectionable artefacts, and some of these defects can be suppressed with further processing.

You know, Ansel Adams was obsessed by tonal range. I don't know if he did compositing way back when, but he certainly would immediately understand HDR.

Yeah, he certainly broke new ground on photographic processing. He popularised and developed techniques like dodging and burning which are still used today.

@Intra - So this "tone mapping" is some kind of blending of similar adjacent pixels? Yeah, that would be bad.

Not sure how the tone mapping algorithm works, but it looks like an automated dodging/burning tool.

[aedipuss]

there will be new cams. one promising one was amp hdr.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/25/amp-camera-records-1080p-hdr-video-you-probably-cant-have-one/

Hey Puss, I was thinking of redoing your avatar. It looks ugly there next to my pretty one. You want some balloons, or leaves?

Wait a minute, I thought that was Aedipus. Or is it?

no the smoke does me fine, pretty does not. i try to use the same avatar for all my nyms, so regulars get the hint.

[aedipuss]

There isn't a camera that can do this out of the box. All a camera can do is take video that will stand a lot of processing without falling apart. I've been surprised how far I can push my HFS21 without getting objectionable artefacts, and some of these defects can be suppressed with further processing.

untrue. the amp is a single lense video camera that has 3 separate sensors with a splitter that sends the light into the 3 sensors using different settings, giving it a range of 17.5 stops and recording as raw uncompressed on an ssd.

[Cornucopia]

You can already do HDR video with current, even low-cost, equipment:
1. Get a beamsplitter (half-silvered mirror), one such as is often used for Stereo3D work
2. Get 2 matching cameras
3. Point both cameras AT the same point on the mirror (lots of calibration work necessary here...)
4. Stop one camera down by a few F-stops (obviously, both need to be set to a manual iris/exposure here)
5. If you don't have software that works with HDR video footage, you can always use "filmstrip mode" in Photoshop, or make a picture-sequence, Process to HDR and back with Tone-Mapping in Photoshop, and then recombine the derived picture sequence back to video.

Higher end eCinema cameras (Alexa, Viper, Red, etc) already have much of the extended dynamic range, plus most CGI is done with extended dynamic range in mind when rendering, so alot of the grading & compositing work done in DI is with HDR imagery, using Tone-Mapping to get it down to final, consumer-ready images. Tone-Mapping is NOT a dirty word, it just depends on how it is used (and WHO is doing the work!).
@intracube, you actually are probably seeing tone-mapped stuff all around you without realizing it. The stuff you object to (and I believe most would object to unless it were for special effect) is EXAGGERATED tone-mapping.

Scott

[intracube]

There isn't a camera that can do this out of the box. All a camera can do is take video that will stand a lot of processing without falling apart. I've been surprised how far I can push my HFS21 without getting objectionable artefacts, and some of these defects can be suppressed with further processing.

untrue. the amp is a single lense video camera that has 3 separate sensors with a splitter that sends the light into the 3 sensors using different settings, giving it a range of 17.5 stops and recording as raw uncompressed on an ssd.

I was trying to say that recording HDR video and processing it are somewhat independent. I'm not aware of a camera that can do what budwzr was describing (sophisticated processing) "out of the box". Highend cameras might have settings for logC, Rec709 and take custom LUTs but that's not the same thing.

Buying a new camera isn't a requirement for recording an HDR scene. A consumer camcorder can be set to underexpose and capture a greater range, but posterization, lost shadow detail and colour casts in the shadows become a problem if it's pushed too far.

Tone-Mapping is NOT a dirty word, it just depends on how it is used (and WHO is doing the work!).
@intracube, you actually are probably seeing tone-mapped stuff all around you without realizing it. The stuff you object to (and I believe most would object to unless it were for special effect) is EXAGGERATED tone-mapping.

Fair point. I just hope it doesn't become overused (like dynamic range compression for music has been). The video for the AMP camera isn't selling it well - the only two shots that looked good were the matches @ 0:42 and the balls and water @ 4:24.

Isn't there a contradiction here? We seem to be in agreement that tone-mapping needs to be used subtly to avoid weird effects. But the whole demonstration of the AMP camera has been to take a massive dynamic range and crush it to fit within modern display limitations.

If they were talking about future-proofing - recording HDR video for the display technology of tomorrow that would be different. I'd really like to see a new display technology that gives a very high contrast ratio AND high peak brightness - many times what current displays can do. If such a technology was fed a signal from a camera like the AMP, it would give fantastic results. But it isn't being advertised for that.

[budwzr]

Some of the ubertightass photographers are mentioning using a whole 3-5 stop spread. That must be UltraHDR, hahahah.

[aedipuss]

my canon 60d does a 3 image 6 stop hdr. not my cup o'tea, i usually do a more sedate 3 image 4 stop. some of the old high end canons can do 7 image 21 stop.