Help with "lining up" an OST to a film's use of said OST...

[intracube]

do you have any idea, as I said, what might be causing the difficulty in the first place?

You haven't posted the unprocessed/uncorrected sections of audio, so I don't know what the original timing differences are like.

There's probably more than one issue at play here.

- as you say, the fade in/out points are slightly different.
- if the two sources line up well for large sections, then suddenly go out of alignment, then it's probably an editing issue.
- if the two tracks drift gradually over time, then it's probably down to the different routes the music has taken and the speed accuracy of the equipment in the chain. From original soundtrack master to DVD there would be a lot of steps; film sound mixing/telecine back to video/maybe transferred across different professional tape formats to name a few. Lots of places where drift could creep in.

*I should add; I haven't worked in film production so I'm only hypothesising here. I'm very much an 'enthusiastic amateur'

The waveforms look too similar to be different takes of the same music.

[takearushfan]

Well, the attached zip has one clip from the actual soundtrack and one from the OST's corresponding section. Your third point is one that I hadn't considered but makes sense. Indeed, that just may be it.
Hm, "enthusiastic amateur"... I like that. I think I'll steal it

[intracube]

The editing makes up the biggest difference between the two versions.

Once this has been corrected for, it looks like the film version is running slightly faster than the OST - by about 0.25%. Increasing the speed of the OST by this amount makes the two tracks line up very closely. The actual figure might be a shade less than 0.25.

[takearushfan]

Yeah, I did find moments where, even though the notes almost "work", an edit must have taken place because any additional speed corrections make no sense... especially when things do line up well later in the track.

[takearushfan]

I'm going to embark on what I already know from some experimentation is a NIGHTMARE of a clip from the film. Hopefully your advice of a speedup will help a bit, but I already know that editing timing has a great deal to do with matching this section properly. I'll post the clip when done, even if it's horrendous. Hell, I wouldn't be posting if everything goes flawlessly, so I'm sure I'll end up posting a screwed up clip, for the sake of your noticing where my difficulties are.

[takearushfan]

This one isn't the complex nightmare that I mentioned in my last post, but I thought I'd share it just to show that, like the file name says, I think it's a decent Surround alignment. If you have any constructive criticism, toss it my way. There are also a few moments of FL/FR Stereo experimentation.

[intracube]

It sounds OK on a quick listen with a stereo speaker setup.

Maybe the music is a bit loud compared to some of the speech and other SFX - particularly around 2:08.

[takearushfan]

It sounds OK on a quick listen with a stereo speaker setup.

Maybe the music is a bit loud compared to some of the speech and other SFX - particularly around 2:08.

CRAP, I keep on forgetting what's been mentioned already; it should also work when in only in Stereo. There's yet another thing I need to work on. I'm so sorry for how amateur I am, but at least I'm not giving up. I enjoy the challenge

[takearushfan]

Ah. I just listened, especially keeping 2:00-2:30 in mind, and of course 2:08. Honestly, again, that's the original mix, not me. They seemed to have many low-end "downing out" moments in that opening sequence. After that point, the music isn't mixed as drastically, overpowering all the rest of the audio.

[takearushfan]

This is the one. The nightmare section I was referring to. Due to upload size limitations, I had to reduce the resolution with XviD. I also had to eliminate the original audio stream and only keep the 5.1. I wish I could've kept it, for the sake of A/B comparison.
Even though it's not as awful as it could be, you'll definitely notice flaws, to say the least. I suppose you could say that some of the work is "close enough", but I hate "close enough". Unfortunately, that's what I have to settle for at the moment. The positive side is that even though there's an echo/delay at times, the "close enough" allows the mix to sound as if it's a somewhat intentional delay.
Eh, let me know what you think, please

[intracube]

Nothing leaps out as sounding wrong.

How are you mixing the two tracks? Are you adding the OST to the film soundtrack, or crossfading from one to the other?

If it's the former, then you'll have the combined volume of the OST and film soundtrack for the music sections, but only the film soundtrack for the SFX/voices. This might account for some of the difference in volume (I don't doubt that at least some of the difference in level is from the original mix, but to my ears it just sounds a bit music heavy).

[takearushfan]

I'm not adding the OST to the soundtrack, if you mean mixing as in overlapping.

Here's a nutshell rundown of how this one was done:

Center - just the identical Mono data from the L/R combined.

LFE - I actually used the V.I. Suite to create the LFE. The only alterations I did were to tweak those moments when (IMHO) the track should be completely muted.

FL/FR - I used the V.I. Suite again this time just for the Fronts.

SL/SR - Nothing but the isolated OST's score. The phone conversation was the nightmare I speak of, constantly having to get things back in sync. I did take "artistic/creative license" and pan one of the growing "bass growls" in the SL, then a different one on the SR. The overall volume of the Surrounds might benefit from a 1.5-3 decibel decrease.

I didn't do too much EQ, but I believe I did bring down the low-end in the Surrounds a bit, as well as some treble. Naturally, this leaves it more mid-range than before I EQed it.

Another note is that, using less is more, I do dehiss and denoise both the original soundtrack and the OST's tracks before mixing, IF I believe it's called for.

[takearushfan]

Intracube, are you still only listening in Stereo? It's not as if I can force you if you don't have a 5.1 setup, but I think that might be even more helpful. I'm sorry... I don't know how to say this without sounding rude; not my intent. If not you does anyone that might still be reading this care to listen in 5.1/provide opinions.
Intracube, I have a feeling you're the only one kind enough to still be reading this thread, heh.

[intracube]

Intracube, are you still only listening in Stereo? It's not as if I can force you if you don't have a 5.1 setup, but I think that might be even more helpful.

Sorry, I haven't got a 5.1 setup. Most of my house is stuck in a 1990's timewarp

I'm sorry... I don't know how to say this without sounding rude; not my intent.

no offence taken

You might want to start a new thread asking people to comment on your re-mastering effort. It'd be a different enough topic to justify that.

[takearushfan]

I would start (come to think of it, I think I have in the past) a new thread asking about such things. The problem is that most people don't want to check them out. I don't know if it's the file size, if it's my sounding (and frankly being) needy or what :/

[takearushfan]

Ah. I just listened, especially keeping 2:00-2:30 in mind, and of course 2:08. Honestly, again, that's the original mix, not me. They seemed to have many low-end "downing out" moments in that opening sequence. After that point, the music isn't mixed as drastically, overpowering all the rest of the audio.

This brings up a good question, IMHO.
Though, due to being a Mono track, it's probably a royal pain, is there any way to make the vocals more prominent while bringing down the overpowering bass?

[intracube]

Though, due to being a Mono track, it's probably a royal pain, is there any way to make the vocals more prominent while bringing down the overpowering bass?

I can't think of a way other than adjusting the equalisation.