Need new Capture card for recording SD channels from tv in high quality

[techspark]

Hi guys, i am back and looking for a new capture card for the following uses and required features :

1. Should record high quality and best possible SD video from my set top box.
2. Should have components or hdmi input or both if possible.
3. Should work well with windows 7 and it will be great if it can work with mac OS (I dont mind buying an additional/thrid party app for that)
4. Should be external, usb 2/3 or firewire
5. Under $175

So far i have only found hauppauge hd pvr thats available for abt $160 and has good reviews and can work on a mac as well.

I am still looking if i have some other option like avertv or some other brand , thats possibly a little cheaper and works as good or better than hauppauge hd pvr.

Planning to buy it in a weeks time and will be using it with my dekstop that runs windows 7 and possibly in the future with a macbook pro.

File size, rendering, compressing etc are not a cause of concern as i have a powerful computer and have ample of space in my hdd.

Thanks!

[edDV]

What country?

What set top box? What service?

[yoda313]

little cheaper and works as good or better than hauppauge hd pvr.

Please note the hauppauge hd pvr only captures in h264. It does not have mpeg hardware encoding if you intend to make regular dvds out of these captures. It will have to be converted from h264 to dvd - an extra step beyond simply authoring a captured dvd level mpeg2 file.

There might be a way to map it to do realtime software encoding to mpeg 2 but I don't know. I'm sure there is probably a graphedit way to do it but I don't know and I don't know how difficult or demanding that setup is.

Edit - also you'll need to fill in the details eddv is requesting so that others can give more detailed answers for what you want.

[usually_quiet]

Given the requirements of a USB 2.0 interface plus Windows 7 and Mac compatibility, the Hauppauge HD-PVR is really your only current option for an external SD & HD capture device that is able to work with with a variety of PVR software. (The HD-PVR will work thanks to a purchased plug-in or special drivers from Hauppauge that make it appear its output comes from a digital tuner.) Avermedia doesn't have Mac drivers for their competing product, the DarkCrystal HD Capture Station/AVerTV USB HD DVR (Model C874), but it can work with Windows 7 plus third-party PVR software (with AVerMedia's plug-in installed).

The only external USB 2.0 device for Mac and PC I have seen with component and HDMI input is the recently released Elgato Game Capture HD. It has no S-Video or composite inputs on its break-out cable, but those may be provided at a later date. There is probably no third-party PVR software that can work with it at this point. In any case, component video is more useful than HDMI for recording the output from set-top boxes because their HDMI output is ordinarily protected with HDCP specifically to prevent recording.

[techspark]

Thank you guys for the inputs.

What country?

What set top box? What service?

I don't think the country/service/video standard will matter as the set top box that i have outputs thru component and composite including audio and all i do is connect the audio/video out from the stb to the audio/video in of my tv and switch tv to video mode. So i dont think a tuner is needed.
heres a link to the stb and the tv service i will b using http://www.reliancedigitaltv.com/get_digitaltvsetup.html
The video standard is PAL B for my country

The only external USB 2.0 device for Mac and PC I have seen with component and HDMI input is the recently released Elgato Game Capture HD. It has no S-Video or composite inputs on its break-out cable, but those may be provided at a later date. There is probably no third-party PVR software that can work with it at this point. In any case, component video is more useful than HDMI for recording the output from set-top boxes because their HDMI output is ordinarily protected with HDCP specifically to prevent recording.

Elgato game capture looks great and the hdmi is a plus, although i agree HDCP will be an issue but i m sure there will be workarounds for that. So is elgato as good as hd pvr considering the fact that i will only be using it to record from my Set top box?

Also, will it be possible to have a setup like this :

Video and audio out from stb >> A/V in to hd pvr >> hd pvr connected to laptop >> laptop connected to my HD tv and video and audio played on the TV ??

Thanks!

[yoda313]

laptop connected to my HD tv and video and audio played on the TV ??

Does your tv have component input? The hdpvr has component passthrough. I don't know about the other unit you are looking to get.

[techspark]

Does your tv have component input? The hdpvr has component passthrough.

yes tv has component in. Does this mean i will see the display both on my laptop screen and the tv ??

[yoda313]

Does your tv have component input? The hdpvr has component passthrough.

yes tv has component in. Does this mean i will see the display both on my laptop screen and the tv ??

Yes.

Don't forget though that you will see whatever is being outputted. If you have some kind of message pop up on screen that will also be displayed.

Just as an fyi my cable dvr has an annoying habit of showing "recording finished" in the center of the screen while playing. I still haven't figured out how to disable this while watching another program.

If your unit has some kind of automated pop up message like that you should note you'll record that in your captured material. Best to do your dubbing while you are not recording other events if you have a similar feature on your unit.

Oh and there might be a slight lag when you watch it on your laptop. So while you are using a remote to access your programs your clicking may be delayed on the laptop a fraction of a second or a little longer. It won't interfere with your recording but you won't have the same instantaneous reaction on the laptop screen.

[techspark]

^^
Thanks a lot for that info. Just one last question, my laptop has hdmi out and tv has hdmi in , can i get an hdmi cable and connect the tv and laptop this way. Will i see noticeable difference compared to the component pass thru ??

If your unit has some kind of automated pop up message like that you should note you'll record that in your captured material.

I would probably get only the standard stb without the recorder as it would work out cheaper and hd pvr will take care of all the recording needs. I agree, those pop ups can get really annoying. What is worse, my cable operator has forced his own company logo in-addition to the logo of all channels, so unfortunately all channels have two logos and it is really frustrating to hv them cover considerable part of the screen

[yoda313]

Just one last question, my laptop has hdmi out and tv has hdmi in , can i get an hdmi cable and connect the tv and laptop this way. Will i see noticeable difference compared to the component pass thru ??

You'll only be seeing the lag difference that the capture unit will induce. That is ok but just be aware of it. THat is the time it takes for the signal to go the capture device and be processed on the laptop (whether or not you are recording). There is nothing wrong with doing that of course but you should know that going in.

Fyi that is how I have my hdpvr setup. I have the cable box going to my hdpvr which is connected to my desktop pc which is itself connected to the tv via hdmi. I do experience the lag I mention but as long as I don't click to fast I can easily select the recording I want to play during my dubbing.

I agree, those pop ups can get really annoying. What is worse, my cable operator has forced his own company logo in-addition to the logo of all channels, so unfortunately all channels have two logos and it is really frustrating to hv them cover considerable part of the screen

Oh what a shame. My heart goes out to you - you shouldn't have to suffer like that.

I know it may not be feasible but have you consider alternative services? Or is this a monopoly? Can you get satellite or go with cable or find another provider in the same class of service?

If you are stuck with that I am sorry. I wish you could do better.

Good luck.

Edit - oh by the way if you did the passthrough you would see the original output from your box not the recording screen from your laptop. Just so you know

[edDV]

Thank you guys for the inputs.

What country?

What set top box? What service?

I don't think the country/service/video standard will matter as the set top box that i have outputs thru component and composite including audio and all i do is connect the audio/video out from the stb to the audio/video in of my tv and switch tv to video mode. So i dont think a tuner is needed.
heres a link to the stb and the tv service i will b using http://www.reliancedigitaltv.com/get_digitaltvsetup.html
The video standard is PAL B for my country

It will make a great deal of difference what comes out the HDMI port. Freeview generally will lack HDCP copy protection (but not always or on all programs). DBS services will almost always be HDCP protected. YPbPr output resolution may also be controlled by various copy protection schemes.

[techspark]

You'll only be seeing the lag difference that the capture unit will induce. That is ok but just be aware of it. THat is the time it takes for the signal to go the capture device and be processed on the laptop (whether or not you are recording). There is nothing wrong with doing that of course but you should know that going in.

Fyi that is how I have my hdpvr setup. I have the cable box going to my hdpvr which is connected to my desktop pc which is itself connected to the tv via hdmi. I do experience the lag I mention but as long as I don't click to fast I can easily select the recording I want to play during my dubbing.

Ok, thanks! I will experiment both ways and see what works best for me.

I know it may not be feasible but have you consider alternative services? Or is this a monopoly? Can you get satellite or go with cable or find another provider in the same class of service?

If you are stuck with that I am sorry. I wish you could do better.

At the moment, not feasible. Almost all the big players here enforce their logos on all channels. Sad but have to live with it now

oh by the way if you did the passthrough you would see the original output from your box not the recording screen from your laptop. Just so you know

Ok thats good and Thanks again for all your inputs

Also just wondering, how is the hd pvr's quality, does the recorded video look like the same quality of what you see on the tv ? Or is the compression noticeable ?

It will make a great deal of difference what comes out the HDMI port. Freeview generally will lack HDCP copy protection (but not always or on all programs). DBS services will almost always be HDCP protected. YPbPr output resolution may also be controlled by various copy protection schemes

HDCP is certainly there for HD channels. I dont think there is any restriction on the component output, should output to full 1080i.

[usually_quiet]

The only external USB 2.0 device for Mac and PC I have seen with component and HDMI input is the recently released Elgato Game Capture HD. It has no S-Video or composite inputs on its break-out cable, but those may be provided at a later date. There is probably no third-party PVR software that can work with it at this point. In any case, component video is more useful than HDMI for recording the output from set-top boxes because their HDMI output is ordinarily protected with HDCP specifically to prevent recording.

Elgato game capture looks great and the hdmi is a plus, although i agree HDCP will be an issue but i m sure there will be workarounds for that. So is elgato as good as hd pvr considering the fact that i will only be using it to record from my Set top box?

Thanks!

The Elgato Game Capture HD is brand new. It is hard to say how it compares to the HD-PVR. Reviewers are generally happy with the quality of the Elgato Game Capture HD's h.264 hardware encoding, however because it is so new there are likely to still be some bugs in its drivers. I haven't been able to find out anything about the Elgato Game Capture HD's ability to record audio. It seems to work well with some Mac programs, and Elgato has promised an update to its EyeTV software for the Elgato Game Capture HD. http://www.tuaw.com/2012/06/04/elgato-game-capture-hd-delivers-easy-hdmi-recording-to-os-x/

However, I haven't read about any Windows PVR software that can use the Elgato Game Capture HD. For Windows, you may be stuck with the capture program that comes with it, which probably does not allow making timed recordings. Other Windows PVR software requires devices to either have a tuner of some kind or to have drivers that make it appear that they have a digital tuner. There is no Windows-compatible fake tuner plug-in/driver for the Elgato Game Capture HD as exists for the Hauppage HD-PVR and AVerMedia HD-DVR USB.

[Edit]I made a wrong assumption based on a review. I took a look at a video on Elgato's website it appears that the Elgato Game Capture HD doesn't currently include a break-out cable suitable for connecting to a set-top box's RCA component video and RCA analog stereo outputs. All it has is a special cable to connect the device directly to the PS/3's A/V port. It really isn't much good for recording from a set-top box, since the box's HDMI output will be HDCP protected.

[yoda313]

does the recorded video look like the same quality of what you see on the tv ? Or is the compression noticeable ?

As with anything digital it varies depending on the bitrate and the source used.

For me I am satisfied using 4.5mb/s for capturing 720p material off the dvr. For most stuff that is. If I want to really preserve it I'll go higher but I don't have a bluray burner so I have to keep that in mind. I can do avchd of course (I have a ps3 that plays it) but that requires lower bitrate. But the bitrate is more or less adequate for me.

I do have a wdtv media player so I can really crank up the bitrate if I need to for a particular program. Then I just copy the recorded file to a harddrive and play it that way.

FYI It is really nice to have the proper 16:9 aspect ratio for recordings that are in high def. There is no problem with the playback presentation. And the 5.1 is preserved over fiber optic - keep in mind no DTS encoding but that would only apply to things like dubbing video games or bluray/dvd dubbing (but you'd be better off ripping with dvd fab decrypter or anydvdhd anyway).

Ok thats good and Thanks again for all your inputs

Always glad to help with some real world input. Again all my experience here is in regards to the hauppauge hd pvr unit (the 1212 model not the newer gaming edition which I guess is the same hardware but slightly different accessories but I don't know for sure).

Almost all the big players here enforce their logos on all channels. Sad but have to live with it now

Sorry to hear that.

Is there an internet petition you could sign to push them to change their behavior? Maybe start one of your own? Who knows something could come of it.

As I mentioned too I have no knowledge of the Elgato unit but if it has component input and h264 hardware encoding it will be similar in most respects to the hdpvr - at least as far as I can tell - I haven't read any documentation yet but it should be similar.

Good luck.

[techspark]

Sorry guys for the late response.

I made a wrong assumption based on a review. I took a look at a video on Elgato's website it appears that the Elgato Game Capture HD doesn't currently include a break-out cable suitable for connecting to a set-top box's RCA component video and RCA analog stereo outputs. All it has is a special cable to connect the device directly to the PS/3's A/V port. It really isn't much good for recording from a set-top box, since the box's HDMI output will be HDCP protected.

Thanks for clarifying that. So looks like Hauppauge hd pvr is my only option

As with anything digital it varies depending on the bitrate and the source used.

For me I am satisfied using 4.5mb/s for capturing 720p material off the dvr. For most stuff that is. If I want to really preserve it I'll go higher but I don't have a bluray burner so I have to keep that in mind. I can do avchd of course (I have a ps3 that plays it) but that requires lower bitrate. But the bitrate is more or less adequate for me.

4.5 mb/s should be sufficient for me. I will try the different options and see what works best. Dont mind going to a higher bitrate as disk usage is not an issue but lower the file size , the better it is.

There is no problem with the playback presentation. And the 5.1 is preserved over fiber optic - keep in mind no DTS encoding but that would only apply to things like dubbing video games or bluray/dvd dubbing (but you'd be better off ripping with dvd fab decrypter or anydvdhd anyway).

Sorry i have no clue abt DTS debbing. F9r me i archive the recorded videos on my 1 tb external drive. I use to burn them on dvd's but i rarely do that now since you can jst plug in the hard drive and start playing them directly.

Is there an internet petition you could sign to push them to change their behavior? Maybe start one of your own? Who knows something could come of it.

I don't think there is any. I wish there was a law in place that prevented them from doing it. Some guys at a local forum tried going to consumer court but it didn't work out.

Thank you for all the replies. I am sold out on the hauppauge hd pvr 1212 model (not need the extra cable) and i will be getting it a week.

Cheers!

[yoda313]

I don't think there is any. I wish there was a law in place that prevented them from doing it. Some guys at a local forum tried going to consumer court but it didn't work out.

If you have some time maybe you could keep at it. Start a facebook page about it. Or something. Who knows if you get enough of a following you might make it on one of your local news stations for a human interest story on a slow news night.

I use to burn them on dvd's but i rarely do that now since you can jst plug in the hard drive and start playing them directly.

In that case the bitrate won't be a limiting factor for you. All you need to do is find a sweet spot between acceptable quality and large file sizes. Of course you can always add harddrive space when you able to so its not a fixed situation.

Good luck.