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  1. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    can anyone recommend a standard dvd player with a good remote control design and concise informative on-screen display? I really like Pioneer for those reasons, and had good luck with one from Walmart (lasted 10 years). When I had to replace it, I discovered they are mainly sold online, not in stores. The new model I got (DV-220VK HDMI) was sometimes buggy and lasted only 2 years. Wont play discs and USB playback is jerky so I guess it's not just the dvd drive. The only improvement over the old model was the front USB input which is very handy, but I dont feel like it's a reliable brand anymore.
    In the USA, Pioneer now only offers an older model (besides the Elite model). Other models from other online stores like Amazon are actually from overseas with no USA warranty.

    I've tried several players from Bestbuy and Walmart, but didnt like the remotes and poor screen display info. Anyone know of a reliable player with features I'm looking for? I'd go Bluray if the features I like are included, but I dont want to go overboard with an Oppo.
    Thanks for any help.
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    The Oppo is pretty much your best bet if you want longevity. Anything else is pure Chinese junk. My father had an ole Pioneer 454 or 343 model and it played solid for 5 years. It's only issue was the door tray would open and close whenever you hit the button on the unit itself. It played fine...so we ended up getting him and philips 642...imo...it was the last of the good cheapo dvd players. it lasted until this past christmas...bought him a cheap Coby and it died in less than 3 weeks. A friend of his took the old philips...opened it up...cleaned up a few things...it still works lol

    i have went through 3 philips player in 4 years. I got a 3560 around christmas and it has so many glitches and audio issues it's not even funny. Even the newer Pioneer's aren't what they use to be. Unless you go elite, don't expect much outta them just because of the name brand.

    I wouldn't spend a lot on any dvd player these days. I'd say close to 99% of them are chinese built and suspect on quality. Buy a cheap one and see how long it lasts. Philips play the USB stuff pretty good but for me, it's not a feature I use so I can't so with confidence.
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  3. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    I'm not just looking for longevity - the desired features equally matter. I previously checked out the Oppo site and only saw very expensive bluray players, and I dont think I'd trust getting a used player.
    I assumed the Pioneer Elite would be made the same way as the regular player since the features were the same. I'm skeptical of the hype, but I'll contact Pioneer anyway about it.
    Last edited by spiritgumm; 23rd May 2012 at 10:41.
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    Your chances of a DVD player that will last for many years are slim. DVD players are cheap and disposable these days, not as well made as in the past, and not as many features. It doesn't make sense to make a better quality DVD player any more, because $100 will now buy a Blu-ray player.

    Since a Blu-Ray player is an option under consideration, you might look at an LG BP-220 to see if it meets your needs. Will it last? Probably not, but it has some nice features.
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  5. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    I'll check out the LG. But if it's not going to last, I might as well get another Pioneer (except the legit USA model is relatively overpriced, and thus not disposable in my mind).
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    spiritgumm - Since you don't define what "good remote control design and concise informative on-screen display" specifically mean to you you may fall into a situation where one man's gold is another man's garbage.

    With regards to Moontrash's post, I owned the Philips 642 and got about 5 years out of it, which was exceptional given that some of our experienced users bought it (it was one of the very first cheap Divx playing DVD players) and didn't even get 3 months out of it. I currently own the Philips 3560 and I've never had an audio problem. The only problem I have with the unit is that it takes longer than it should to get to the menu of DVD+R DL discs. However, it's so much better than the old 642 in every other way that I am honestly quite baffled that anybody would wax nostalgic about the old 642 and criticize the 3560.

    Today's DVD players will last longer if you put them in a place with a lot of open space to air cool. Heat damage is actually one of the big lifespan shorteners. Today's players are built thinly because consumers want it and it also shortens their lifespans since the thin players don't dissipate heat very well and most people put them in enclosed spaces where heat builds up.
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    ... Today's DVD players will last longer if you put them in a place with a lot of open space to air cool. Heat damage is actually one of the big lifespan shorteners. Today's players are built thinly because consumers want it and it also shortens their lifespans since the thin players don't dissipate heat very well and most people put them in enclosed spaces where heat builds up.
    Really true ... and not just for DVD players. Parts going thermal are a leading cause of faults.

    Not only are a lot of the cases really thin and tightly packed, the vent slots aren't much to write home about. They often don't even have any on the top.

    Lots of people want those electronic cabinets with closing doors, and they don't help much either.
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  8. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    plenty of ventilation for my player, so not an issue.
    A good remote is not too small (I think Philips was tiny) or too long. Oft-used buttons placed where you can get them and on the remote (a button for audio channel toggling instead of having to go thru the player's menu or disc menu). The LG remote looks similar to the Pioneer, except LG put the Play/FF, etc buttons above the arrow buttons.
    Onscreen info should show chapters ("1 of 8"), elapsed time, total time, bitrate, audio channels used, subtitles used. Pioneer shows most of that on one screen, across the top.
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    The current Pioneer is "overpriced" compared to what other current DVD players? Do they have the same features, so the comparison is fair? I remember looking at DVD players 3-4 years ago, when all Blu-Ray players were expensive, and when a nice, fully-featured DVD player from one of the big-name brands typically cost over $90. That kind of deluxe DVD player is history, except perhaps for a Pioneer or Oppo.
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  10. This actually is a decent DVD player as well as recorder. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Magnavox-MDR515H-F7-500GB-HDD-and-DVD-R-with-Digital-Tuner/15080509 I like the remote layout and the adjustable forward or reverse skip too. The remote layout is so much better than the LG BluRay player I also have. Pricey, however I bought it to record TV shows from the HD channels off of cable. It does only record in 720 by 480 of course. But the image is pretty good. I have it hooked up via HDMI.
    If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.
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  11. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    Pioneer says their higher priced "elite" dvd line uses better parts and gets a 2 year warranty, but isnt necessarily constructed better in terms of longevity.
    I'm skeptical about anything Magnavox makes, and I thought customers gave their dvd equipment low ratings (until now ).
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  12. I passed on to my brother the older Philips version of this Magnavox. They are Both rebadged Funai's. I bought it some years back to record from the Digital channels off of my basic cable. He still uses it every day to play DVDs and as a digital tuner for his old SD TV set.

    On the DVD recorders most of the knocks come from people that can't figure out how to use them. There is a command sequence that can be sent from the remote to show hdd hours and dvd hours. Many of them are under 5 hours. Some quirks that caused returns. For example until you go through the setup sequence the DVD drawer won't open.

    All kinds of details here (684 pages) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657

    THose of course will be for using it as a DVD recorder or as a DVR. I think they have pictures of teh remote and such there off of the 1st page however.
    Last edited by TBoneit; 23rd May 2012 at 16:00.
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  13. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tboneit
    For example until you go through the setup sequence the DVD drawer won't open.
    That is a horrible design feature! I mean the old joke about the blinking 12:00 on vcrs is one thing but not being able to put a disc in without doing the setup is a bad design for sure.

    Now of course it is probably in the manual but who reads the manual really? (talking to the guys here of course ) One thing they could have done but probably didn't was put a giant sticker on the dvd itself saying RUN SETUP MENU FIRST SO YOU CAN OPEN THE TRAY in big bold letters. That would have saved a lot of hassles.

    ---------------

    A slightly similar issue that I found annoying was on my epson r280 cd/dvd printer. For the life of me I couldn't get it to print if I would have a long time between uses. What I mean is I couldn't remember what trick there was to get it to print on the disc. It would keep flashing at me every time I moved the print tray from the paper slot to the disc slot. Somehow I had figured out how to do it or lucked out but forgot and when I'd go back to do it again weeks or months later I'd get all frustrated again.

    It wasn't until an internet search gave me the answer - you have to put the tray in the cd/dvd print slot while the printer is OFF then turn it ON! That is absolutely ridiculous. A machine that would be used regularly for printing paper and less frequently for dvd/cd printing should be able to do this on the fly without any special hassles like that.

    I would give up each time I had the blinking lights. When I was finally determined to do it again I went online searching for the answer and finally got it.

    Little things like that drive the average consumer bonkers. I am not an average consumer but it is still frustrating as hell when a design feature like that is so counter intuitive.

    Anyway rant over..
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  14. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by yoda313 View Post
    Now of course it is probably in the manual but who reads the manual really?
    Only when the dvd player starts ticking, then I read the manual asap to see how to deactivate it before it explodes.
    Anyway rant over..
    Lol, you're right. It's one thing for a bird to crap on you (presumably by accident), but for someone to design a home appliance to do so is can only reflect a sadistic sense of humor.
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  15. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spiritgumm
    Only when the dvd player starts ticking, then I read the manual asap to see how to deactivate it before it explodes.
    Or when a red eye shows on your tv and does the 2001 thing and says "hello dave"

    Originally Posted by spiritgumm
    Lol, you're right. It's one thing for a bird to crap on you (presumably by accident), but for someone to design a home appliance to do so is can only reflect a sadistic sense of humor.
    Unfortunately for lack of time or money it seems like a lot of companies never bother to do a "real world" consumer test. It would be nice to have them grab a few joe shmoes off the street and do a real true test of their stuff. If you get a bunch of people saying they don't know what their doing with it than they can get the idea it doesn't work instead of having hand picked testers to give the results they want to hear.
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  16. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by yoda313 View Post
    Unfortunately for lack of time or money it seems like a lot of companies never bother to do a "real world" consumer test.
    They probably consider consumers to be the "test dummies." Drug companies look at the general public that way because there's only so much data you can get from clinical trials.
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  17. The features you want are no longer available in a "cheap" DVD player: for better and worse, the mass market has moved to BluRay players and DVD players have been reduced to door prizes at Target. Aside from the arguably overpriced Pioneer and the very pricey (but excellent) Oppos, your choice is down to the Philips 3560 or forget it and go with BluRay.

    Current DVD players and many BD players have poor front panel displays, and on screen overlays that run the gamut from bad to worse. You have to accept these things are not made the way they used to be, and are now targeted to younger consumers who are perfectly happy with convoluted interface design that mimics Windows on a bad day. You want to pull your hair out and gnash your teeth, just try quickly loading and playing a DVD on an LG BluRay player: you'll be running back to VHS in short order.

    Given your preferences, I'd recommend going with the Pioneer while its still available. Pioneer actually doesn't exist anymore as the full-line mfr it was a few years ago, its situation is precarious, so if you want a Pioneer you should jump on one before they disappear. The remote is decent and the unit won't operate that far different from what you're used to with previous models.

    Opinion of whether BluRay players make adequate DVD players is sharply divided: a significant number of picky people don't like the way their DVDs play on BD players at all. The only BD player widely endorsed as excellent for DVD playback is the Oppo line: your extra money buys you extra capability for DVD. But its way too much to spend if you have no interest in acquiring BD discs. BD players tend to be slow and fussy to operate as well.

    The suggestion to look into a Magnavox 515 DVD/HDD recorder is interesting if you think you would use the recording feature enough to justify the price. This model is the fourth incremental upgrade to a sturdy design that has remained unchanged since 2007. The DVD drive is very reliable (5+ years), and they have ventilation fans. But they also have three notable drawbacks from your perspective: the remotes are highly prone to early failure, the onscreen display is so cryptic and small it seems designed to torture, and the current price is ridiculously inflated due to "sky is falling" discontinuation rumors propagated on other forums. Up until two months ago the 515 sold for $229 at WalMart, then stock ran out and people on those other forums lost their $@%& over it and went into panic mode, stupidly sending petitions to WalMart. So of course a few weeks later when the next shipment came in, the price was hiked to $329. At $229 the machine was a popular no-brainer bargain, but $329 is a bit much considering it now appears a new model is forthcoming.

    In the $329 price range, if you don't need the recording feature an Oppo would likely be the better choice for PQ and remote/display. Although I must add, based on personal experience and that of my friends, the impressive reliability of the Magnavox makes it mighty attractive. I don't think my neighbor has remembered to turn off his Magnavox since the day he bought it three years ago: it has been powered up continually since then, in a cluttered wall unit with books blocking its ventilation holes. Yet it has never failed to play a DVD or record on its HDD: he's also had good luck with the remote never failing. Below $100, go with the Pioneer (or the Philips 3560).
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    Interesting post, orsetto, about the Magnavox DVD recorder. This very forum was one of the places where veteran members insisted that it was going to become extinct any day now. I can't remember who said it, but someone here who's been on the site for a while insisted that Magnavox was abandoning the North American marketplace sometime this year.

    spiritgumm - I really have no idea if you would like the Philips 3560's remote, but it's not too small and the info display does have all the things you specifically mentioned in your post as wanting to see. It's not particularly fast to load DVD+R DL discs, but it handles single layer and commercial discs in a reasonable amount of time. It doesn't play a wide variety of video formats but I put the Dvix test disc in it and it played a lot more of those test clips than my old 642 did.
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  19. [QUOTE=yoda313;2164131]
    Originally Posted by tboneit
    A slightly similar issue that I found annoying was on my epson r280 cd/dvd printer. For the life of me I couldn't get it to print if I would have a long time between uses. What I mean is I couldn't remember what trick there was to get it to print on the disc. It would keep flashing at me every time I moved the print tray from the paper slot to the disc slot. Somehow I had figured out how to do it or lucked out but forgot and when I'd go back to do it again weeks or months later I'd get all frustrated again.

    It wasn't until an internet search gave me the answer - you have to put the tray in the cd/dvd print slot while the printer is OFF then turn it ON! That is absolutely ridiculous. A machine that would be used regularly for printing paper and less frequently for dvd/cd printing should be able to do this on the fly without any special hassles like that.

    I would give up each time I had the blinking lights. When I was finally determined to do it again I went online searching for the answer and finally got it.
    My feeling on that is the design was done that way to waste ink and thus increase cartridge sales. As I remember every time you turn it on it goes through a head cleaning cycle that uses ink.
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  20. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Getting back to the topic on hand I'll have to give my recommendation to either a ps3 or xbox 360 as a dvd player. IF you are already a gamer of any type going with a game console has a few advantages over run of the mill non-smart dvd players:

    1 - can play games

    2 - does a very good job at upconverting dvds

    3 - has a great selection of smart apps for streaming media - the xbox 360 seems to be edging out the ps3 by a hair right now. Although the ps3 just got the amazon instant video app the other month and I don't think the 360 has it yet. The only possible downside is I'm not sure which xbox 360 streaming apps require a gold xbox live membership - those are 60-70$ a year (the price recently changed but I have it set to autopayment for year long renewal so I don't really know what the current price is). ---- Oh of course the xbox 360 DOES NOT have a bluray player but if you happen to still have hd-dvds if you went that router early on you can buy the xbox hd-dvd add on drive for it. They should have one on ebay still I imagine - mine still works fine with infrequent use.

    The ps3 is a great dvd and bluray player. Oh and it gets updates all the time so you don't have to worry about doing firmware updates to play the latest bluray disc - just accept the updates as they roll out and you'll be current.

    Granted for just disc playing a xbox 360 or ps3 is more expensive than a basic dvd or bluray player. But if the smart bluray players are still quite pricey you might want to look into a xbox 360 or ps3 as they are quite good at disc playback.

    One last note the older non slim xbox 360 models are quite noisy. The newer slim models are supposed to be quiter but not a whole bunch apparently. And at least the non slim xbox 360's need a giant out of the unit power brick that you have to find a place for. The ps3 simply uses a standard computer desktop style power cable. The newer xbox 360 slim might have a different power adapter and might not be as bulky as the non slim model - I can't say as I don't have a slim model.

    Oh and both the 360 and ps3 do hulu plus, netflix and vudu hd. Both have youtube apps but I find the 360 has a better interface for youtube. - edit and again as I have a xbox live gold membership I don't know if the hulu plus and netflix and vudu hd require a gold membership or not - they may and that would add to the cost of the 360 - the ps3 does not have a different level like that (well they do have a "plus" model but it does not alter what you can and can't access for streaming services)

    Edit - one other thing the xbox 360 has an IR port on it and has a standard remote control that is quite good in my opinion but a universal remote can easily be used. The ps3 DOES NOT have an IR port - at least the older "fat" models don't - the newer "slim" models might. But regardless you can either get the official sony bluetooth remote control (which I have but is huge and nonergonomic) or the nyko bluwave remote that has a ir usb dongle that you'd plug into a front usb port. That will let you use other remote controls like a logitech harmony series or other types. But those will run at least 20.00 new (the nyko third party remote with the dongle. I'm sure you can get cheaper ones used online or no name knockoffs but buyer beware of course .

    Hope this gives you something else to consider.
    Last edited by yoda313; 24th May 2012 at 10:32.
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Interesting post, orsetto, about the Magnavox DVD recorder. This very forum was one of the places where veteran members insisted that it was going to become extinct any day now. I can't remember who said it, but someone here who's been on the site for a while insisted that Magnavox was abandoning the North American marketplace sometime this year.

    spiritgumm - I really have no idea if you would like the Philips 3560's remote, but it's not too small and the info display does have all the things you specifically mentioned in your post as wanting to see. It's not particularly fast to load DVD+R DL discs, but it handles single layer and commercial discs in a reasonable amount of time. It doesn't play a wide variety of video formats but I put the Dvix test disc in it and it played a lot more of those test clips than my old 642 did.
    I first saw the rumor about Magnavox stopping DVD recorder production for the N. American market here in a post by orsetto, and am guilty of repeating it. It actually began in the AVS Forum's official the Magnavox DVD recorder thread, where wajo, the thread's originator, started it. At this point, I'm beginning to doubt it. I don't know anymore if it true, or not, or only true with respect to Magnavox's existing models, with replacements models planned at some point. I bought a MDR513H/F7 as a result of the rumor, and I'm happy with my purchase, but I'm going to be irritated if the rumor was false, and spread by wajo to artificially increase demand.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 24th May 2012 at 14:22.
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  22. Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    Interesting post, orsetto, about the Magnavox DVD recorder. This very forum was one of the places where veteran members insisted that it was going to become extinct any day now. I can't remember who said it, but someone here who's been on the site for a while insisted that Magnavox was abandoning the North American marketplace sometime this year.
    The confusing thing with the Magnavox is its weird distribution as a WalMart-online-exclusive item. In terms of real-world consumer interest, and sales vs returns numbers, it isn't successful and continually lost money at its long-time price of approx $240, give or take. Despite the fact American consumers have continued to display increasing indifference and outright hostility to DVD recorders, for reasons known only to WalMart executives they like the idea of having an exclusive on the only DVD/HDD recorder with ATSC/QAM tuner in North America.

    The trouble with this arrangement is WalMart wavers occasionally in its commitment, supply dries up for a couple months while they reconsider the wisdom of retaining such an impractical SKU, and when that happens the Magnavox "Cult Forum Leader" goes ballistic in posts all over the web, inciting potential buyers to make a run at "the last available supply." On two occasions there was a truly major interruption in availability: the first time was 2009, when WalMart opted to kill the product. Within a few weeks, Target decided to get cute and screw with WalMart by contracting the OEM to supply them with the same machine with slight improvements and a new model number. This pissed off WalMart, which dived back in and so for awhile both Target and WalMart websites offered the Magnavox 513. Target soon learned the folly of trying to pitch a complex DVD/HDD recorder to its consumer base, and bowed out. As a final slap back at Target, WalMart proceeded with one more refresh leading to the current 515 model.

    A few months ago, the 513 and 515 both sold out abruptly and a bit suspiciously. WalMart stonewalled as the Magnavox Cult Leader spiraled into hysteria, launching petitions and threads galore over the apparent demise of these machines. Simple research revealed the OEM mfr was not making DVD/HDD or even BD/HDD recorders for any other company anywhere in the world: WalMart was the sole customer for this product. Ordinarily one would not consider this scenario confidence-inspiring, but the whole setup is just bizarre and unpredictable. A few weeks back, a trickle of the older 513 model re-appeared on the WalMart website, at higher pricing. They sold out quickly and were replenished, this cycle repeated several times until there was no availability again for a sustained period. The hysteria reached a fevered pitch, with units appearing at eBay and Amazon secondary sellers with insane $500-600 pricing. At the peak of this, WalMart suddenly reintroduced the 515 with a $100 price increase, and it has cycled in and out of availability ever since. In recent weeks, the Cult Leader (who claims to have access to the mfr) has been gloating and dropping hints that a "fabulous" replacement model is in the offing. We can only wait and see if he's right in this assumption.

    The Magnavox at $229 was a steal: durable DVD burner, reliable ATSC tuner/timer, large HDD. At $329, its appeal begins to dim in light of its clunky circa-2003 interface and limited editing/dubbing features. One needs to be careful of overpaying today in fear of scarcity if it gets discontinued, as happened with the late lamented Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony & Toshiba DVD/HDD recorders. The "cult" behind those earlier models was made up of serious video hobbyists who needed their advanced features and were willing to pay top dollar even for second hand units. The Magnavox "cult" consists primarily of frugal consumers whipped into a frenzy by the thought of "getting over on the cable company" using the Magnavox as a cheap PVR: they aren't advanced users but typical consumers. As typical consumers, they are becoming disillusioned with the Magnavox hype as its digital QAM cable tuner proves increasingly incapable of coping with recent cable company signal tampering. There will be a glut of used Magnavoxes flooding the eBay/CraigsList market next year as more and more disappointed cable subscribers ditch them when their cable provider drops Clear QAM service: Magnavox availability on the secondary market should remain reasonably good.
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  23. Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    I first saw the rumor about Magnavox stopping DVD recorder production for the N. American market here in a post by orsetto, and am guilty of repeating it. It actually began in the AVS Forum's official the Magnavox DVD recorder thread, where wajo, the thread's originator, started it. At this point, I'm beginning to doubt it. I don't know anymore if it true, or not, or only true with respect to Magnavox's existing models, with replacements models planned at some point. I bought a MDR513H/F7 as a result of the rumor, and I'm happy with my purchase, but I'm going to be irritated if the rumor was false, and spread by wajo to artificially increase demand.
    Note I made no special effort to spread this rumor, I only mentioned it in response to threads posted by VH members who were in the market for a new DVD/HDD recorder since their old one died. Three months ago, the Magnavox was virtually gone and all indications strongly pointed to it really REALLY not coming back this time. So I recommended anyone who neeed one monitor WalMart and J&R websites and grab one as they sporadically turned up. And yes, AVS is experiencing quite a bit of negative blowback as it now appears to have been gullibly "used" as a WalMart shill to clear their warehouse of the slower-moving leftover 513 model (which stalled when the 515 with larger HDD and vastly better remote came on the scene for just $30 more).
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    orsetto - Is the "Cult Leader" that same douchebag (I forgot his name though) who was a member here at one time and personally had maybe 30-40% of the posts in a gigantic but extremely helpful long running thread on Philips/Magnavox DVD recorders? He went and deleted his postings in the thread and replaced them with a pointer to the AVS forum discussion. I complained to the mods about it and all I got in return was the equivalent of a shrug of the shoulders.
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  25. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    back to my dilemma, I'm not a gamer so I'm not interested in Xbox, and I dont need another dvd recorder. Looks like I missed getting the Philips 3560 locally (sold out), so it was either order it online, check out the Bluray players, or try a cheap Pioneer Import. I tried the latter from B&H Photo:
    http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-DV-2022K-Compact-Player-Region/dp/B0060ULSGY
    It's an Asian model, with Pal/Ntsc settings and a plug adapter. The remote is actually really tiny (despite the picture), but the unit works with my old remote, and screen display and functions are the same.

    The audio slowly drifted off sync with a Pal dvd in the same spot, but after more playing, it played normally. Havent had that problem with Ntsc discs. I'm hoping it was a temporary thing.

    My main issue is the black level. In dark or night scenes, its much too dark. I was thinking it might be a Pal thing, but my Panny recorder (with only Dark or Light Black level settings to choose from) is just as dark in the dark setting. But my USA Pioneer player (which I can still coax to play briefly) displays dark scenes perfectly.

    Pioneer have video controls, so I minimized the Gamma, boosted the Brightness and Chroma to improve the lighting, but the dark scenes get a filtered look, and backgrounds are still murky. In contrast, the USA Pioneer looks perfect on all scores, backgrounds are visible, and the video doesnt look filtered or washed out.
    There's suppose to be a way to toggle the Import player from Pal, Ntsc or Auto format setting, but it doesnt indicate what is set. I'm probably watching with the Ntsc setting on anyway.

    Is the black level designed for Asian TV's? Or is the multisystem not outputting correctly? I'm thinking the audio sync issue might have been a voltage issue, but I dont think that would effect the black level.
    Last edited by spiritgumm; 1st Jun 2012 at 00:26.
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  26. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    I tried the latter from B&H Photo:
    http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-DV-2022K-Compact-Player-Region/dp/B0060ULSGY
    It's an Asian model, with Pal/Ntsc settings and a plug adapter. [...]The audio slowly drifted off sync with a Pal dvd in the same spot, but after more playing, it played normally. Havent had that problem with Ntsc discs. I'm hoping it was a temporary thing.
    You did not mention having any PAL dvds in your original post. Finding a "truly good" dvd player thats also region-free (or hackable) and converts PAL to NTSC for American TVs will be even more difficult than your original quest. The go-to player for this sort of thing is the Philips 3560, anything else is a gamble for more or less money.

    My main issue is the black level. In dark or night scenes, its much too dark.[...] But my USA Pioneer player (which I can still coax to play briefly) displays dark scenes perfectly.[...]Pioneer have video controls, so I minimized the Gamma, boosted the Brightness and Chroma to improve the lighting, but the dark scenes get a filtered look, and backgrounds are still murky. In contrast, the USA Pioneer looks perfect on all scores, backgrounds are visible, and the video doesnt look filtered or washed out.

    Is the black level designed for Asian TV's? Or is the multisystem not outputting correctly? I'm thinking the audio sync issue might have been a voltage issue, but I dont think that would effect the black level.
    Import players and recorders can be a giant PITA due to black level discrepancies. As with every other conceivable parameter of North American video, our black level is out of sync with the larger world. Gear thats officially marketed for USA/Canada compensates for this completely, but the import stuff relies on adjustments that don't always do the trick.
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  27. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    You did not mention having any PAL dvds in your original post. The go-to player for this sort of thing is the Philips 3560, anything else is a gamble for more or less money.
    Chances are any import dvd player will be Pal/Ntsc compatible. I only mentioned the Pal audio sync issue because it's a demerit, and because it's cause might have bearing on the Black level problem. I guess Pal/Ntsc compatibility only applies to framerate, not the color/black level output. Maybe there's a hack for it?
    My original USA Pioneer also played Pal/Ntsc (not region free, but there's a hack). If the Philips 3560 was region-free, I guess that's a notch above.
    I suspect I bought the Philips 3560 two years ago, but returned it in favor of going back to the Pioneer (for my preferences). Seems to be less available now.
    PioneerUSA now only markets an expensive bluray player which I dont think has the preferences I like.

    Speaking of blu, it looks like LG can play Pal, but Sony and Panasonic dont - or does it vary from model to model?
    Last edited by spiritgumm; 1st Jun 2012 at 20:25.
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  28. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    Chances are any import dvd player will be Pal/Ntsc compatible.
    Its tricky, because they are designed primarily to be used in PAL countries so the black level might still be out of whack when playing NTSC discs on an NTSC television. You also need to look out for the "gotcha" of backwards PAL/NTSC "compatibility." Players designed for North America that have undocumented region hacks (like the Philips) will often fully convert PAL to NTSC output to an NTSC television. Import players are designed around the fact most televisions sold in PAL countries since the 1990s have simple built-in conversion circuits which will take a pure NTSC signal and make it into fake PAL. So an import multi-region player may not necessarily have PAL<>NTSC conversion circuits, because they assume you have a PAL TV with its own converter. It might only output PAL as PAL, defeating the purpose of having a multiregion player in USA/Canada. Most import players will do both region-free and PAL>NTSC conversion, but be sure the import dealer has a full refund policy.

    If the Philips 3560 was region-free, I guess that's a notch above.
    Its easily hacked, as most Philips have typically been. I use a portable Philips PET dvd player for occasional Region 2 PAL conversions.

    Speaking of blu, it looks like LG can play Pal, but Sony and Panasonic dont - or does it vary from model to model?
    I have two friends who each got an LG BluRay player in bonus package deals with an LG television purchase this year. The player is the most unusable, balky piece of crap I have ever seen: the thing defaults to being a terminal for web streaming, getting it to even recognize a DVD is loaded is time-consuming, gaining access to the DVD menu is painful. Assuming LG uses a similar interface on its full line of BD players, I don't think you'd be too happy with it. See if you can get a demo in a local chain store.
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  29. I got an LG BD670 to go with my LG 3D TV a few months ago (not bundled). Yeah, it's "balky" even for a BD player, i.e. very slow to load. Also slow to navigate directories when an external drive is connected. Not the most expensive BD standalone they make, but not the cheapest either. If it's any indication, though, their BD players are pretty slow. A good bit slower than my Sony BD players.

    Since I only use it for 3D Blu-Rays it doesn't bother me. I usually play MKVs (made from my 2D Blu-rays) direct from hard drive on that TV.
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  30. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    I'll testdrive the latest LG BP220 since it's available locally and cheap.
    Looks like USA Sony & Panny bluray wont play Ntsc/Pal standard dvds (a feature which should be nominal at this point) unless the units are either hacked or imported (not sure which). If imported, then I'd probably be stuck with the same black level issue I have with the imported Pioneer.
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