HDMI Capture?

[BOMOON]

Hauppauge's Colossus card does have HDMI input. However, they are very explicit in pointing out that most cable and satellite boxes encrypt HDMI output and they do NOT record encrypted HDMI. I'm not aware of any device that can record encrypted HDMI. I have no idea whether PS3 video output from games is encrypted or not, but given that the PS3 is made by consumer unfriendly Sony, my guess is that it is encrypted.
Component video is really excellent quality. If it's "too many wires" for you then you are SOL my friend.

Does that mean that the Colossus will record HD video if component cabling is used to connect the card to the component connectors on an HD PVR? The reason I ask is because it's not clear to me how the card and/or PVR will handle a component connection via the HDMI adapters on the card. Would the HD PVR detect an HDMI connection in that case? It does put an HDMI device in the connection, just not via an HDMI connector on the PVR.

For the record the PVR is a DirecTV HR22-100.

I agree that component video is excellent quality, certainly good enough for these old eyes. I "solved" all previous problems with HDMI and HDCP on my system by simply forgoing HDMI altogether and using component cabling everywhere. I have an open basement with ceiling joists 8 ft above the floor, so "too many wires" is only an issue when they start hanging down below strangulation level. Then, I just cinch 'em back up!

Seriously though, I would like to graduate from SD capture to component 1080i capture, if I can do it with some kind of PCIe card or external. Right now I'm using a Canopus AVDC-1394 for SD capture. It's a great card but.... SD. Would the Colossus be a good "starter" card for me? It seems to get high grades around here, but the latest reviews for it on Amazon have been far from sterling.

Incidentally, because of the connection to a DirecTV HD-PVR, I wouldn't be using any of the tuning hardware/software capabilities of the card. Just component/audio out from whatever's playing on the DirecTV to the card, and then to some kind of capture software on the PC.

I think the PC has the horsepower - the Cyberlink PowerDVD BD Advisor passed it for HD BluRay playback, at any rate. It's a Dell Dimension 8400 3.2 GHz P4, 4GB physical RAM (Windows 7, so it actually knows the RAM is there), plenty o'hard drive space. The P4 might be the limiting factor for capturing - Cyberlink gave it a pass with a "yellow" light for HD playback. It really does handle BluRay playback OK though.

Sorry to hijack the thread like this. I thought I the component vs. HDMI connectors/cables use of the Colossus would make my questions pertinent...

Thanks and have a good one,
Alan Mintaka

[jman98]

The Colossus decides whether to record in SD or HD based on the signal it gets. For example it will record in 720x480 (SD) when given a laserdisc or VHS tape signal to record, even if such is passed through component (I have a composite to component converter box). If you send an HD signal over component then it will auto detect it and record in HD. There's no real way to change this so SD signals always get recorded as 720x480. You can't force it to record these as 1280x720 for example. I've never had the Colossus fail to detect the correct resolution of the signal it was given and record SD as HD or HD as SD.

I really like the Colossus, but I have no Canopus experience. Amazon reviews must be taken with a grain of salt as some users are technological morons. I've been able to use its TBC feature to record several video tapes with no problems. One of my tapes was an old TV recording I made and it had what I think they call "tearing" but it looked perfect under the Colossus. Note that TBC is off by default and must be manually turned on if you want it. I have recorded an old series of commercial VHS tapes and they look great. Note that the card only records in H.264 for video and either AC3 (possible but less likely) or AAC (more likely) for audio. The encoding chip is capable of a lot more but there are no drivers that fully support all its features.

[detroit1]

Does anyone know if the Comcast HD boxes have a different encryption on them?
I have recorded HD programming from Directv Boxes with no problems using an hdmi input card but when I connect it to Comcast; I get sound in the software but no picture; just a black screen. same thing when I tried other softwares but all of them work find from Directv HD DVR box
I thought all of them DISH, Directv, Comcast, etc would be using the same hdcp encryption

[BOMOON]

I really like the Colossus, but I have no Canopus experience. Amazon reviews must be taken with a grain of salt as some users are technological morons. I've been able to use its TBC feature to record several video tapes with no problems. One of my tapes was an old TV recording I made and it had what I think they call "tearing" but it looked perfect under the Colossus. Note that TBC is off by default and must be manually turned on if you want it. I have recorded an old series of commercial VHS tapes and they look great. Note that the card only records in H.264 for video and either AC3 (possible but less likely) or AAC (more likely) for audio. The encoding chip is capable of a lot more but there are no drivers that fully support all its features.

The Canopus ADVC-1397 is an excellent SD capture card. I've used it for native capturing of composite video and analog audio from the DirecTV HD PVR and a TiVo Series 3 HD PVR for years. I've always been amazed at the high bitrates the thing is able to capture, albeit at SD - 25Mbps for DV 720 X 480i video, 1536Kbps for PCM audio from the DirecTV composite outputs, for example. That's using Sony VidCap 6.0, the standalone that comes with Vegas 11 Pro. I think I tried the software that came bundled with the Canopus once and lost interest in it in a hurry. I can't even remember what it was, probably WinTV or something like that. Anyway, with the right capture software, it's a great SD card.

As far as the Amazon reviews for the Colossus go, I understand the gotchas when it comes to trying to interpret what the reviews really indicate about a product, if anything. For the Colossus, a spate of bad reviews started early in 2012 and continued almost to date (August). Some of those include technical background information for the problems and what the reviewers tried.

Many of the problems have to do with the bundled capture and tuning software, which I would probably not use in any case. For one thing, I won't need the tuner - I'm recording stream output from PVRs which do the tuning. What capture software I use will be the one that works. I certainly will NOT use Windows Media Center in any capacity, even though my OS is Windows 7 Home "Premium" user. Anything with social networking and "sharing" hooks is to be avoided at all costs for any kind of serious media work. That, plus the fact that Windows is an OS, not a media suite, despite using the phrase "Media Center" to try to suggest that kind of capability.

Certainly some of the Amazon reviewers have no idea of what they're doing. However, neither do I. Plus, other reviewers do seem to have a technical handle on things like problems with audio clipping and suggested solutions. Good grief, some of these guys are fooling around with standalone attenuators to try to defeat that clipping.

In addition there are reports in those Amazon reviews (but no links as usual, we wouldn't want to be too helpful, would we?) of complaints in the Hauppauge forums dealing with the same problems and offering up no working solutions - particularly when it comes to driver updates.

As you pointed out, "The encoding chip is capable of a lot more but there are no drivers that fully support all its features." Why is that, I wonder? What's with Hauppauge, marketing a card whose hardware doesn't have complete driver support? Would better driver support fix the audio clipping issues the reviewers are talking about? Guess we won't ever know.

I owned the old Hauppauge WinTV-PVR SD capture card before I got the Canopus. While the former card worked adequately, the lack of support was what made me jump ship for the Canopus. This then is the caveat for me with the Colossus, the Amazon reviews, and the complaints on the Hauppauge forums: the support stunk when I had the WinTV PVR. If any of the Amazon reviewers are talking sense, it stinks now - especially when it comes to driver software.

BTW I did go hunting for Hauppauge Colossus forum links. Here's one of the UK forums, though I suspect it's old news to you. Actually, I couldn't find much in the way that corroborates anything the reviewers were saying:

http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?88-HD-PVR-Colossus-%28ArcSoft-TME-Showbiz-only%29

And here is a link and the change log for the latest Colossus Windows Driver, available 07/09/2012. Note what it has to say about audio sample rates and "bit rate property". Did that fix the clipping issues the Amazon reviewers are talking about? Who knows. It certainly post-dates most of the Amazon reviews.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_colossus.html
Release notes for colossus_30151_release:

• Fix for video freeze after 10-20 minutes.
• Added display of source info to property page.
• Added SrcInfo property set.
• Added h264 property set.
• Changed audio sample rate and bit rate property values.
• Added parameter checks to property pages.
• General cleanup of bit rate handling.

All of that said, the Amazon price for the card is certainly right ($140.00). I think what I'll do is explore warranty options with Amazon, Newegg, and a few others to see if I can get some kind of reasonable protection for a DOA or lemon that flakes out in a month or two. If I can do that, I'll give it a try.

Thanks for the additional info,
Alan Mintaka

[detroit1]

what does all of that have to do with my question about using Comcast HD DVR and trying to record using HDMI input from HD80e?

[BOMOON]

what does all of that have to do with my question about using Comcast HD DVR and trying to record using HDMI input from HD80e?

I wasn't responding to you. Read my post again carefully. It includes a quote from jman98.

Now read this response to you again carefully. It includes a quote from you. Get it?

You will find responses to different posters throughout this thread. They aren't necessarily in question/response sequence, and there's no reason to expect them to be with different posters adding to the thread all the time. The easiest way to keep track of who's responding to whom is either by paying attention to the context, or by referencing the quotations in the posts.

It's pretty clear from the quote who I'm responding to in my earlier post. The better question is: what made you think I was responding to you?

Note that I could have just as easily asked you what your question had to do with jman98's response to my question. Same thing.

[detroit1]

Today I actually updated the driver on the HD80e and now the amarectv software is not working right; I am getting this message
can anyone let me know how to correct this?

Today, I had uninstall my capture card and then re install it and update the driver and now when I open amarectv is says:

HRESULT = 8007001f

A device attached to this system is not functioning

Code : MpMediacontrol - > Run


I tried a couple other recording softwares that I have and they worked fine after updating my driver but amarectv is giving this message and amarectv is a better software ; that’s why I use it to record

I hope someone knows to to correct this

[usually_quiet]

Does anyone know if the Comcast HD boxes have a different encryption on them?
I have recorded HD programming from Directv Boxes with no problems using an hdmi input card but when I connect it to Comcast; I get sound in the software but no picture; just a black screen. same thing when I tried other softwares but all of them work find from Directv HD DVR box
I thought all of them DISH, Directv, Comcast, etc would be using the same hdcp encryption

I know your HD80e device is supposedly not affected by HDCP, but I can't tell you why it isn't working with your Comcast box. There isn't much information available about your device.

What I can tell you is that I have seen some reports indicating that DirectTV boxes often don't apply HDCP to their HDMI output. Comcast HD cable boxes on the other hand do apply HDCP to their HDMI output, which prevents most HDMI capture devices from recording. Recording from component video instead of HDMI is usually necessary if you want to capture the output from a Comcast HD box.

[BOMOON]

Hello,
A few of you have been talking about VHS transcription in the context of Hi-Def capture. Whether or not the VCR being used has internal TBC and/or the capture device has TBC is one question that's being addressed.

I was wondering if anyone has any updated information on the kinds of VCRs that are being used for the playback device, with or without internal TBC. There are a few threads that have dealt with this question, but they're pretty old (2006 vintage) and some of the VCRs they talk about are no longer available. I may cross-post over there (I know, I know) but I have a few posts here already so I thought I'd carry on.

In addition, the recent VCR product lines that I've been looking at have been getting some pretty bad reviews across the board (not just Amazon).

So, if this question is pertinent to this thread: what VCRs with/without TBC are folks using these days for VHS transcription/recovery, and what capture devices with/without TBC are you using? Are you using any other devices to process the audio and video in addition to the VCR and cap device?

I should add that HDMI capture is not required here. In fact, to avoid HDCP issues, I'll most likely be capturing component video. Right now all my cabling is component anyway.

I have VCRs here that I've used for transcription in the past, strictly SD with either composite or S-Video, no TBC. At the moment I don't have any way of converting S-Video to component on the VCR that has S-Video output. I'm not sure it's possible because I don't know if the S-Video out on that machine is 7-pin or not. That's one of many reasons why I'm considering another VHS playback device.

Thanks for your time,
Alan Mintaka

[sanlyn]

The only VCR's you'll find with quality playback, with tbc or not, will be used. JVC and Panasonic made decent VCR's with TBC; the Panasonic pro models will cost you, the better JVC's cost somewhat less. Good luck finding one that works. Most pros and hobbyists have played them to death. I gave up on 3 JVC's after they ruined some of my tapes, and JVC is not a a good choice for 6-hour EP tapes. Since then, I've used Panasonic VCR's circa 1995-1998 -- and had to go through 7 used purchases to get 4 machines in good shape. There are many threads recently about usable VCR's, you might search the forum for postings by orsetto.

None of my VCR's have s-video out. I use composite into a Toshiba or Panasonic DVD recorder, which I use for y/c filtering and s-video conversion, and as pass-thru line level tbc's. You'll find threads about several pass-thru strategies in the forum, too.

Meanwhile I have a Hauppauge PVR for HD cable, but not for tape captures.

[mikezilla2]

You lose a bit quality-wise with the analog conversion, and the HD PVR is only capable of 720p or 1080i, but the PQ is still pretty darn good. I *think* the colossus can record 1080p over component, so might yield a slight improvement if you were so inclined.

The Hauppauge Colossus can record 1080i, but not 1080p. The Startech PCI Express HD Video Capture Card PEXHDCAP is the only device mentioned in this thread that can capture 1080p video, although it only captures stereo audio. HD capture devices record the resolution they receive, and as far as I know, Dish's normal programming is still 720p or 1080i. Their On-Demand and PPV can be 1080p, but the OP doesn't want to record that.

If the AverMedia HD unit can allow me to capture to lossless compression of some kind, that would be an improvement. The PC can physically accommodate 3 hard drives (the motherboard will take six drives, 3 USB-3 and 3 USB-2 sata drives, but no room in the case for all six. And I can't see myself trying to maintain 6 big HDD's!). For now, the originals get transferred to external drives and then reworked from the Hauppauge's compressed product; that's a big headache, and some obvious quality loss that requires really careful treatment. Thanks for mentioning. I wasn't aware of the AverMedia unit. . . .

Regarding hard drive set up... Capturing standard definition interlaced content with a lossless codec creates file sizes in the neighborhood of 30-40 GB/hour. Losslessly compressed HD files from the AVerTV HD DVR PCI-e card would be 5 1/3 or 6 times larger. Capturing that amount of data successfully requires a RAID array.

will it record 1080p gameplay over HDMI - PS3 tho ? ie native 1080p ala MGS4 or upscaled etc ?

[usually_quiet]

You lose a bit quality-wise with the analog conversion, and the HD PVR is only capable of 720p or 1080i, but the PQ is still pretty darn good. I *think* the colossus can record 1080p over component, so might yield a slight improvement if you were so inclined.

The Hauppauge Colossus can record 1080i, but not 1080p. The Startech PCI Express HD Video Capture Card PEXHDCAP is the only device mentioned in this thread that can capture 1080p video, although it only captures stereo audio. HD capture devices record the resolution they receive, and as far as I know, Dish's normal programming is still 720p or 1080i. Their On-Demand and PPV can be 1080p, but the OP doesn't want to record that.

will it record 1080p gameplay over HDMI - PS3 tho ? ie native 1080p ala MGS4 or upscaled etc ?

The answer to your first question is "No". The Startech PCI Express HD Video Capture Card PEXHDCAP won't record HDCP protected content, and the PS3 applies HDCP to HDMI output.

As far as your second question about 1080p capture... I don't know if it can up-scale. I also can't tell you which 1080p frame rates it accepts or if it captures all of them as is because the Startech PCI Express HD Video Capture Card PEXHDCAP's specs only say it accepts 1080p video input. There are several possible frame rates for 1080p, depending on the source: 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30, 1080p50 and 1080p60. Other capture devices that accept 1080p60 capture it as 1080p30.

[mikezilla2]

now hold the phone here - i can force the card to record HDCP - via HDfury or the el cheapo hdmi/dvi boxs - the qustion is going down that route will it still not capture 1080p HDCP - i can get other cards to record 720p and 1080i HDCP via hdmi !

[usually_quiet]

now hold the phone here - i can force the card to record HDCP - via HDfury or the el cheapo hdmi/dvi boxs - the qustion is going down that route will it still not capture 1080p HDCP - i can get other cards to record 720p and 1080i HDCP via hdmi !

Take a moment to think about the questions you are asking. Why mention HDCP at all at this point if you are going to use a HDCP stripper? There won't be any HDCP to worry about if the HDCP stripper works. You originally used the word "upscaled" when you meant "downscaled". How in do you expect to receive the answer you want, if you asked for the exact opposite information?

The frame rates the PEXHDCAP records for 1080p aren't specified in the specs or the manual. I finally found a review today that says something about the 1080p framerates the device supports: http://www.videogameperfection.com/av-gear/startech-pexhdcap-hdmirgbvgacomponent-captu...e-card-review/ The reviewer says the Startech PCI Express HD Video Capture Card PEXHDCAP can only capture and record 1080p24. So it is definitely unable to capture 1080p60 as 1080p60. As far as I know there are no consumer capture devices that can record 1080p60 as 1080p60. If they capture 1080p60 at all, it is recorded as 1080p30.

[thatkookooguy]

I don't know if this still relevant. Although the Intensity Shuttle doesn't support HDMI HDCP, you CAN record protected hdmi with it. I bought the cheapest hdmi switch I could find that supports hdcp input and connected the input to it and after that to the Shuttle.

It made me able to record my PS3 with my shuttle.


Here's a video (not me) of a guy doing the same (his switcher is much bigger then mine)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNR1G4yvQ4c

hope I helped!

[BOMOON]

The only VCR's you'll find with quality playback, with tbc or not, will be used. JVC and Panasonic made decent VCR's with TBC; the Panasonic pro models will cost you, the better JVC's cost somewhat less. Good luck finding one that works.
...
There are many threads recently about usable VCR's, you might search the forum for postings by orsetto.
...
None of my VCR's have s-video out. I use composite into a Toshiba or Panasonic DVD recorder, which I use for y/c filtering and s-video conversion, and as pass-thru line level tbc's. You'll find threads about several pass-thru strategies in the forum, too.
...
Meanwhile I have a Hauppauge PVR for HD cable, but not for tape captures.

Hi Sanlyn,
Sorry for the delay in this response. I've been learning the ropes of HD capture with the Hauppauge Colossus.

I was afraid this would be the case with VCRs, that the better models are the old ones. I had done a lot of researching of reviews of the newer machines, and the consensus was that they're largely junk. Getting a decent VCR seems like it would amount to an extreme long shot, with many hours spent with tech support, returning bad units, shopping for replacements, ad nauseam.

I do have two older VCRs that I currently use. They were good in their day but they're past their prime: a Panasonic PV-S4266 (Reggie Vision!) and a Sony DVD/VCR Combo SLV-D360P. The Panasonic has S-Video and Composite Video out. The Sony has an S-Video out connector, but it's for DVD only playback. The VHS playback jacks have composite video only.

Basically, transcribing VHS tapes amounts to experimenting with both VCRs to get the best results: trying S-Video (Panasonic) or Composite Video (both), fiddling with tracking adjustments, cleaning the heads, plugging and unplugging connectors, cleaning the heads again, throwing a handful of salt over my right shoulder, etc. Success varies from VHS tape to VHS tape, plus the weather on odd Tuesdays. It's getting old.

It's too bad so much of the new technology is worthless. Out of desperation I may start researching those "pro" VCRs, including reading the threads you've referenced.

So much of this is random trial and error. That's the part that gets me down.

Anyway, thanks for the input. Back to work!

Alan Mintaka

[oldfart13]

Just stumbled upon this thread and was also looking at replacements to capping at SD resolutions. Came upon the Geniatech U800 but it doesn't look like it's ready for prime time just yet. Promising though according to tests made by some users:

http://translate.google.com/translate?twu=1?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.htforum.com/v...D-Cap-U800-Usb

Might be something to look forward to in the future if it's bugs can be ironed out and it can cap HDMI other than 720p...

[BOMOON]

Just stumbled upon this thread and was also looking at replacements to capping at SD resolutions. Came upon the Geniatech U800 but it doesn't look like it's ready for prime time just yet. Promising though according to tests made by some users:

http://translate.google.com/translate?twu=1?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.htforum.com/v...D-Cap-U800-Usb

Might be something to look forward to in the future if it's bugs can be ironed out and it can cap HDMI other than 720p...

The important thing for me is that it has component and composite video inputs. Those are going to be the gating factors for me in terms of transcribing old VHS tapes and dispensing with HDCP nonsense for HD captures.

I noticed that your link was to a Google Translate page for a forum in San Salvador. Where is the Geniatech manufactured?

Also, as you say it has bugs that need to be ironed out. For example notice the "CONS" in that review. It's limited to 25fps capturing - it really should have a range of fps capturing capabilities here in the USA where so many different kinds of media video are available. For example, if I try to capture programming content from my DirecTV system, the component and HDMI inputs will almost certainly be at 29.97fps. What will a device limited to 25fps do with that?

In addition, there are no optical audio inputs, as far as I understand Google Translate's version of the review. That rules out multichannel audio capturing. The Colossus, as limited as I'm learning it to be, at least has an optical input.

Admittedly my system is limited by a slow PC with this Dell Dimension 8400. Still, I expect a PCIe card to outperform an external USB capturing device on this system, unless that USB device has some pretty hefty buffering capability to offset the slower interface. This Geniatech just doesn't seem to have the horsepower to do the job.

You're right, though, we should keep an eye on it to see if they can work out the limitations.

[Cauptain]

HTForum is brazilian (Brazil)

This card capture HDCP sources.

Geniatech / Mygica is chinese.

Its capture based in source: if 480p@25, capture 480p@25. No way to change fps or select resolution.





Claudio

[oldfart13]

Yes, this is what the testers asked, that you could use other capture software (which it does not allow at present), as well as being able to change the resolution, frame rate, etc. The liaison with the company is (apparently) aware of this and hope to address these shortcomings in future firmware updates one assumes. This is why it will be worth some time to follow what happens with this device as well as the PC version:

http://www.geniatech.com/pa/hdcapexpress.asp

additional info here:

http://www.meritline.com/mygica-hd-cap-express-hd-video-capture---p-61430.aspx#2

Again, seems not ready for prime time. Can do 720p from unprotected sources. 1080 seems impossible. They are on the right track but implementation seems to be dodgy. This device came out in 2011, so it seems the new device is somewhat of an improvement...just not much of one (for now)...

[mikezilla2]

seems like a shit card ....

[Seeker47]

I was afraid this would be the case with VCRs, that the better models are the old ones. I had done a lot of researching of reviews of the newer machines, and the consensus was that they're largely junk. Getting a decent VCR seems like it would amount to an extreme long shot, with many hours spent with tech support, returning bad units, shopping for replacements, ad nauseam.

The advice that has turned up in these threads previously was that the best strategy (probably, hopefully) would be to get one of the better, older models -- reconditioned -- from an outfit like Southern Advantage, preferably with a warranty. (This was not one of your cheaper options, obviously, but could avoid the Used / eBay crapshoot.) They also had some supposedly unused-leftover-stock of the AG1980, though at a much heftier price. (I haven't looked into this recently, so I hope they are still in business, and still recommended.) Also, there has been some leftover NIB stock on the Mitsubishi HD2000U around, although I'm not sure if that situation continues, either. On the plus side, this model was said to be a workhorse that was sturdier than most, so maybe not quite so much of a crapshoot, if you went for one that was not that heavily used. I think prices on these ran from the $250. to $400. range.

[mikezilla2]

wont VHS recordings look like crap tho ?

[sanlyn]

In addition, there are no optical audio inputs, as far as I understand Google Translate's version of the review. That rules out multichannel audio capturing. The Colossus, as limited as I'm learning it to be, at least has an optical input.

I'm in agreement most of the way here, but multichannel audio is not limited to optical connections. Coax is generally preferred by audiophiles but, then again, the audio in most home components and USA broadcasts is really putrid to begin with.

NTSC regions are a bit hampered by the Hollywood paranoia that claims you are pirating their dumbed-down material and selling it openly on the streets. Of course we all know how well their anti-piracy methods are working.

[usually_quiet]

In addition, there are no optical audio inputs, as far as I understand Google Translate's version of the review. That rules out multichannel audio capturing. The Colossus, as limited as I'm learning it to be, at least has an optical input.

I'm in agreement most of the way here, but multichannel audio is not limited to optical connections. Coax is generally preferred by audiophiles but, then again, the audio in most home components and USA broadcasts is really putrid to begin with.

NTSC regions are a bit hampered by the Hollywood paranoia that claims you are pirating their dumbed-down material and selling it openly on the streets. Of course we all know how well their anti-piracy methods are working.

I'm not aware of any current A/V capture cards that have something other than analog stereo or optical S/PDIF connections for audio. If someone wants to use coaxial for digital audio capture, they need to look elsewhere, although I can't remember seeing any current consumer PC sound cards with coax audio in, only coax audio out.