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  1. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Just went to the sony site to check on the newest firmware and found that it contains cinivia so do not update your sony bdp-s380 firmware unless you don't back up your blu-ray collection,the firmware is M06.R.0615.
    http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-home.pl?mdl=BDPS380&template_id=1&region_id=1&t...d#/downloadTab

    If you want to check for yourself click on the link and input o/s and firmware.
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    Glad i don't ever plan on owning anything again from $ony!!!
    For Bluray that is.....

    The only thing i have that is $ony is a 5 disc DVD player, and i only bought that back years ago because it play's SACD's, which is all i used it for, and i have not even used it for that in a few years because i use my Pioneer standalone for my SACD & DVD-AUDIO disc's

    Oh yeah, and a PS2, cause i could hack the $h!t out of the system and the games!!
    LOL!!
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    I'm not knocking johns0's well intentioned post, but strictly speaking the vast majority of BD discs do not use Cinavia and such backups will not be effected by this even if it is installed.
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  4. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Not many movies have cinavia but that may change in the future.
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  5. Member turk690's Avatar
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    Can AnyDVD HD strip cinavia off as it rips?
    For the nth time, with the possible exception of certain Intel processors, I don't have/ever owned anything whose name starts with "i".
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  6. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Nope,nothing can remove cinavia as of today.
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  7. In Sony's defense (and yes I think Cinavia is evil) at least they're advertising their firmware contains Cinavia. No other manufacturer I'm aware of is doing so.

    Oddly enough I'm in Australia and as far as I know none of the firmware updates Sony have released here are advertised as containing Cinavia. With the exception of the BDP-S185 which does. I'm not sure why we're missing out.....
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  8. I left work last friday and when I got back on Monday, our contractor had updated our firmware on the bluray player. This appears to break the composite video out while hdmi is plugged in. We use both, one for a preview while our hdmi goes to our projectors. I have downloaded an older version of the firmeare along with the new one that is already flashed to the bluray player. Is there any way to compare the hexes or anyway to downgrade the firmware. I tried putting the older firmware on a disc and seeing if it would take that but the player tells me "already updated". If i can trick the player into thinking that the firmware is newer...maybe change the firmware version in *bin file somehow. This really pissed me off this has happened. Is there anything that I can do? Sony has messed up a legitimate customer by doing this crap. Thanks for your help if anyone can! We will not buy anymore sony players for sure.
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    Some players can't be downgraded in firmware. Perhaps Sony models are like this. You may need to ask in another forum on another website though if nobody here knows of a way (if one even exists) to downgrade your firmware. Yes, breaking composite or component out while HDMI is in use is becoming more and more common. Sony probably did it deliberately thinking that only a "bootlegger" would need to use both at the same time. I'm not kidding.
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    last i heard all new blu ray players will be required to be infected with cinivia
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  11. Would there be any way to change the hex and make the older firmware appear newer to the player by changing the version number? Or am I waisting my time even trying to figure this out? Thanks
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    Originally Posted by october262 View Post
    last i heard all new blu ray players will be required to be infected with cinivia
    You are correct. This requirement is already in force.

    I used to keep up with Doom9's forums but I stopped a few years ago. I remember when decrypting BluRay discs seemed like a pipe dream and even Doom9 himself speculated that some parts of BD+ might be impossible to decrypt. But it turns out that some smart people figured out how the encryption worked. There are some really smart folks at Doom9 and the last time I looked they were just completely and utterly baffled on a way to defeat Cinavia. I have to say that I'm not real optimistic on this. It's already taken longer than I thought it would at first and there's still no solution. Any way to defeat it is probably going to require a re-encoding of audio and some purists will object, but based on what I have read I do not see any alternative. Then again, I'm not claiming to be an expert so my understanding could be flawed.
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  13. The way I understand it, players already being sold as of Feb 2012 (which was when Cinavia became compulsory) are not required to include Cinavia and they're not required to have it included via firmware updates. In practice though it seems to be finding it's way into a lot of current firmware. Any new model player from Feb 2012 onwards must be inflicted with Cinavia.

    While Sony have advertised the inclusion of Cinavia in most of their U.S. firmware updates for current players, where I am (Australia) Sony seems to be almost a Cinavia free zone. I'm kind of curious as to why. Maybe the versions of the later players sold here simply didn't have the ability to detect Cinavia built into their hardware?
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    The way I understand it, players already being sold as of Feb 2012 (which was when Cinavia became compulsory) are not required to include Cinavia and they're not required to have it included via firmware updates. In practice though it seems to be finding it's way into a lot of current firmware. Any new model player from Feb 2012 onwards must be inflicted with Cinavia.

    While Sony have advertised the inclusion of Cinavia in most of their U.S. firmware updates for current players, where I am (Australia) Sony seems to be almost a Cinavia free zone. I'm kind of curious as to why. Maybe the versions of the later players sold here simply didn't have the ability to detect Cinavia built into their hardware?
    i think some bluray discs require your bluray player to have the latest update in order for the disc to play, thus the cinavia update is already on the disc.
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    Originally Posted by johns0 View Post
    Nope,nothing can remove cinavia as of today.
    dvdfab had a way to get past the cinavia protection for the playsyation 3 but the latest update took care of that
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  16. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Dvdfabs way was to burn the disc with the AACS key that cinavia recognizes so that the cinavia wasn't activated,it was still there.
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    The solution is not to use blu ray players at all. I have no intention of ever buying one. Rip and transfer your blu ray titles to a media player, whether that is a stand alone device like a WD TV Live Plus, or an HTPC, or even small portable devices.

    The only thing I can see that Cinavia will accomplish will be to discourage blu ray player sales amongst the tiny minority of the public who like to play physical backups. And because of that, it will also tend to inhibit sales of blu ray burners and blu ray blank media as well. Not that either of those are in main stream use. Never will be now.

    Cinavia certainly won't put a dent in piracy. There are too many holes in the dike they tried to build.
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  18. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Thing is that media players might be forced to use cinavia in later firmwares.
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    Originally Posted by johns0 View Post
    Thing is that media players might be forced to use cinavia in later firmwares.
    No, I don't think so. Cinavia is included on blu ray players because of the requirement for AACS compliance for any blu ray player, including software players.

    Many of the media player manufacturers have no connection of any sort to the AACS Licensing Association , and there is no requirement for them to include Cinavia on their media players. If someone were foolish enough to include it on a media player, in the face of dozens of competitors without it....well the results wouldn't be pretty.

    PowerDVD, Arcsoft, WinDVD and Nero may be forced to include Cinavia detection on their software players soon though. That would put a crimp on those of us who use their products for HTPC's, but blu ray can also be played rather well from MPC-HC, and I doubt they will ever be affected. And I'll probably just continue to use my old copy of TMT3 on ripped files.
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  20. Originally Posted by october262 View Post
    i think some bluray discs require your bluray player to have the latest update in order for the disc to play, thus the cinavia update is already on the disc.
    I doubt firmware updates could be included on discs as different makes and models of players use different firmware. Not that my player has ever actually seen a Bluray disc. All it's ever played is the encoded version. There's a second player in the house which is the designated "disc player" so if it ever needs to be updated to play one it's not the end of the world if it gets infected with Cinavia. Even so, I'll probably rip the disc and play the encoded version to avoid Cinavia for as long as possible.
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  21. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    October262 meant that you need to update your player with the latest firmware not from a movie disc but from your manufacturer so that they will play.
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  22. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    The solution is not to use blu ray players at all.
    Yes, and others will come to the same conclusion. Between Sony and the studios, it's like they're trying to kill the format; you can only hamper it so much before folks get totally disgusted with it.

    Let me count some ways off the top of my head:

    1) Waiting for main movie to finally load. Main movie backups load a good bit more quickly.
    2) FBI warnings. Do I really have to be told I'm a pirate for the ten-thousandth goddam time?
    3) Unskippable trailers. Reason enough right there to do a main movie backup. But trailers that one can bypass are still annoying. They show contempt for the customer.
    4) Lots of us have more than one TV and BD standalone.
    5) Does anyone actually have a good word for BD-Live? That was supposed to be extra goodies one could only access from an original disc and I recall it was a selling point when Blu-Ray had still not gotten any traction in the market. Bah, fooled again.
    6) Forced firmware upgrades. Oh no you don't. I'll play backups exclusively before I allow that.

    Apart from the crowd who won't pay for anything they can possibly get free of charge, they (Sony, et. al.) positively encourage people to make backups by hampering their format. Not that I think there's anything intrinsically wrong with an optical format for HD movies. Mind you, I have 3 pre-Cinavia players, two Sonys and one LG (3D).

    Less money spent on useless protection schemes could mean lower price per disc. Less delay in getting to the movie would mean less annoyance, as would eliminating trailers.

    I don't see streaming as a viable option just yet, due to lower quality generally and, possibly, inadequate bandwidth. But people can damn well use media players, or inbuilt players (my LG TV's player is actually good enough for my purposes).

    I have to wonder about the future of Blu-Ray. Contempt for the customer may go far to shorten the life of the format. I won't buy another BD standalone. Media Players!
    Last edited by fritzi93; 13th Jun 2012 at 06:46.
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    Sony is completely schizophrenic with the Hollywood studio/music industry part of the company viewing ALL living human beings as potential thieves and taking extraordinary (and costly) measures to try to stop them and the other part of the company (the electronics part) sincerely wanting to make devices for users that are useful and profitable to the company. Unfortunately the Hollywood/music part of Sony seems to have the upper hand. Sony is actually its own worst enemy with the media part essentially trying to undo everything the electronics part does. It's quite bizarre.

    Yes, the FBI warnings get old. I've never actually seen an unskippable trailer. NEVER. Can you give an actual example of this? I do get the annoyance factor, but I have actually found films to rent via Netflix or buy thanks to trailers that I never would have known about otherwise.

    My player is not network connected and I've never updated the firmware. Actually updating the firmware breaks the region free mode, so that's a good reason not to do it. Still, I've not yet encountered one BD disc that wouldn't play. I'm a lot less enthused about American movies than most Americans are (I vastly prefer foreign films, particularly Asian ones) so it may be possible that I simply have never rented or bought a BD disc that required a firmware update to play. Still it does make me wonder if those firmware updates are really and truly necessary or if Momitsu did something special with their players where they don't recognize any firmware updates on the disc as being required and just play the discs anyway.
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  24. I have a good many Blu-rays but haven't watched an original disc since, oh, probably the first Narnia movie. Which has trailers, though hitting stop, then top menu, bypassed them. So I don't really know, though I read from time to time about unskippable trailers. Could be user ignorance.

    Forced firmware upgrades? Dunno really about that one either, though people have mentioned it.

    Oh, I do watch my 3D Blu-Rays from original disc. No problems with them, but I only have 7 so far. (BTW, supposedly Tintin 3D and 2D has Cinavia). Backing up 3D Blu-rays seems to be too much trouble to me; you do an ISO and put it on a double-layer disc ($) and you can't realistically do main movie only...yet.

    Otherwise, I use my main movie backups, or, increasingly, MKVs I've made, played from external hard drive via USB on my TV's player.
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    Originally Posted by fritzi93 View Post
    I have a good many Blu-rays but haven't watched an original disc since, oh, probably the first Narnia movie. Which has trailers, though hitting stop, then top menu, bypassed them. So I don't really know, though I read from time to time about unskippable trailers. Could be user ignorance.
    Well, in that regard, I did see this article, last month...
    DVDs and Blu-rays will now carry two unskippable government warnings | Ars Technica:

    Forced firmware upgrades? Dunno really about that one either, though people have mentioned it.
    Yeah, I've heard reports of that, too. It isn't too much of a stretch to reason that they could store compressed versions of firmware for practically every player out there somewhere on those big BDs. Of course, given how many BD players seem to practically demand Internet connection, I wouldn't be surprised if they just forced the player to call out for a firmware upgrade.
    The PS3 certainly tries to force end-users to update the firmware with various BDs and games, the updated firmware on the discs. (Last I checked, the firmware was well over 100MB.) Or use the PS Store, but that's a slightly different issue.
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  26. Many years ago, I would put on my LP and hit the record button on the cassette deck.....
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    Unfortunaly, bdp-s380 is my first blu ray player, and in my ignorance about cinavia I update to firmware 0621, when I try to watch Drive, surprise, Cinavia error message 3, I found the firmware 0600, that has no claim to have Cinavia protection, but downgrade it´s not possible, . If someone know a workaround to downgrade firmware please let me know.
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  28. I haven't bought our first Blu-Ray player yet. This kind of stuff is making me think maybe I shouldn't.
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    Oddly enough, I noticed that Sony have placed many of the "entry level" Bluray players on discount, and are currenly lower in price than Samsung, Panasonic, and LG.
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    Originally Posted by oscarmbv View Post
    Unfortunaly, bdp-s380 is my first blu ray player, and in my ignorance about cinavia I update to firmware 0621, when I try to watch Drive, surprise, Cinavia error message 3, I found the firmware 0600, that has no claim to have Cinavia protection, but downgrade it´s not possible, . If someone know a workaround to downgrade firmware please let me know.
    There are a lot of blu-ray players being made and since the Sony bdp-s380 is just an entry level model i doubt anyone will want to hack a firmware for that reason.
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