Saving space with MKV H.264 files

[Ahari]

Another quick suggestion: Could you make Hybrid ignore all files that it can't handle? Maybe with a switch to turn off the warning boxes that come up.

The reason is that my media player generates xml, jpg, nfo, txt and some other obscure files and when I toss the folder at Hybrid, it gives me a whole bunch of error boxes and each one has to be clicked!

[Selur]

A small suggestion - would it be possible to put a simple line in the main page log to tell the user when it has finished reading the file?

I'll add a line to the log,.. (I have to read up on some stuff to see, how I can print it bold or something,..)

I presume that if I want to do any kind of cropping and or resizing, that I must deinterlace first. Does Hybrid automatically do it in the correct order? ie: deinterlace first. I assume bobbing is better?

If Hybrid correctly detects the input as interlaced or telecine, it automatically uses deinterlacing/ivtc to remove it. Deinterlacing is not applied, if the output is ment to be interlaced, i.e. you enabled x264->Advanced Frame Settings->Interlaced encoding.
So normally you do not have to care about deinterlacing and leave it to Hybrid.
If Hybrid does not detect your source properly (which normally means that the source was not properly flagged) you can run Hybrids Interlace detection (press Filtering->Deinterlacing/Telecine->Deinterlacing/Telecine Settings->Analyse or activate Config->Automation->Autorun interlaced check)
If that still does not help you can disable Auto Deinterlacing (disable Filtering->Deinterlacing/Telecine->Auto deinterlacing) or force deinterlacing (Filtering->Deinterlacing/Telecine->Force deinterlacing).

About the quality of interlacing, here an overview of the deinterlacing&co methods Hybrid offers:

If the auto-deinterlacer doesn't give you a satisfactory image quality, you can choose between the following deinterlaceing methods manually:

Mencoder/FFmpeg deinterlacers:
- Yadif: fast deinterlacer, doesn't change the frame rate
- Yadif - custom: allows you to manually specify the yadif parameters
- Mcdeint - custom: Slow motion compensating deinterlacer. It needs one field per frame as input and must thus be used together with tfields=1, yadif=1, yadif=3 and a frame step filter which at the end throws out some frames to hit the desired framerate.
- kerneldeint: fast deinterlacer, doesn't the change frame rate
- ivtc - filmdint: inverse telecine deinterlacer which changes frame rate from 29.976 to 23.976 and lowers the frame count accordingly
- bob: bobbing deinterlacer which doubles the frame rate and count
- linear blending: deinterlaces the given block by filtering all lines with a (1 2 1) filter, doesn't change the frame rate
- linear interpolation: deinterlaces the given block by linearly interpolating every second line, doesn't change the frame rate
- cubic interpolation: deinterlaces the given block by cubically interpolating every second line, doesn't change the frame rate
- median deinterlacer: deinterlaces the given block by applying a median filter to every second line, doesn't change the frame rate
- ffmpeg deinterlacer: deinterlaces the given block by filtering every second line with a (-1 4 2 4 -1) filter, doesn't change the frame rate


Avisynth deinterlacers: (require the avisynth extension)
- Yadif (Avisynth): fast deinterlacer, doesn't change the frame rate
- Decomb (Avisynt): Telecide + Decimate combo, best use for ivtc and hybrid material, changes framerate depending on settings
- QTGMC (Avisynth): very high quality motion compensated deinterlacer&bobber which like mcdeint can get really slow depening on your settings. In bob mode frame count and frame rate is doubled.
- TIVTC (Avisynt): Telecide + Decimate combo, best use for ivtc and hybrid material, changes framerate depending on settings


While Auto deinterlacing is active Hybrid will still decide if it uses the deinterlacer or not.
If you want to forcefully enable or disable deinterlacing with a specific deinterlacer: Activate Force deinterlacing and deactivate Auto deinterlacing.


Additional deinterlacers can be added if the are supported via mencoder, ffmpeg or avisynth (windows only).

source: Hybrid tooltip

In general Hybrid automatically uses:
- 'Yadif' or 'Yadif (Avisynth) for interlaced input
- 'ivtc - filmding' or 'TIVTC (Avisynth)' for telecine content
(iirc. )

You bobbing in general is a better deinterlacer, but since it doubles the frame rate and frame count and therefore depending on the content and the bobber used doubles the output size it is not the default.
Available bobbers are:
- bob (basically 'Yadif - custom'/'Yadif (Avisynth)' with mode = 1)
- QTGMC (Avisynth) with 'bob' enabled
in general as long as your content is interlaced using QTGMC is the method that provides the best quality, but also depending on the preset might be the slowest method.

You also mentioned using some filters on almost every job you do. Can you refresh my memory on which ones to use and why do you use them?

Normally I use Hybrid (on windows) with the avisynth extension.
If the content is interlaced I normally use for deinterlacing I use: QTGMC (with prest = Fast)
In general I normally use:
1. a deblocker (DeblockQED if the source has a good quality but not excellent, if the source quality is bad I use Unblock) to lower visible macroblocking (->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroblock)
2. DeHaloAlpha (since most of the sources others edited contains rininging -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_artifacts)
3. Grain handling -> Removegrain (with it's default values) to get a small (normally not visible) smoothing effect that boosts compressibitly
the rest of the filters normally totally depend on the sourc input and need to be adjusted to the source input.

Could you make Hybrid ignore all files that it can't handle? Maybe with a switch to turn off the warning boxes that come up.

The problem with this is, that an extension does not always specify the input correctly and it would be far to much work to come up with a list of possible extensions Hybrid can't handle or a list of extensions that Hybrid can handle. (Later would be easier, but would require some massive testing and investigating to test which extensions can be handled,..
The version you have offers you the possibility to specify which extensions to ignore: Config->Input settings->Extensions to ignore (read the tooltip on how to specify multiple extensions).

The program now works absolutely perfectly!

That's nice. I'll than release a public version later today.

Cu Selur

[Ahari]

Thanks for the detailed response! I think I will work through your tips and suggestions one at a time and post questions as I come across them.

That's nice. I'll than release a public version later today.

Remember that my version only works because I have the 32 bit version of ffmpeg running

[Selur]

Remember that my version only works because I have the 32 bit version of ffmpeg running

Yup, but there's no real way for me to address that issue, since you are the first one who reported to me having a problem with ffmpeg 64bit (which runs fine on my systems) -> if more people are having trouble with it I'll switch to ffmpeg 32bit as default.

Cu Selur

[Ahari]

I am playing with the deinterlacing settings and am trying to use the preview to check the effect.

If I use a bobbing deinterlacer like Yadif (Avisynth), The Avisynth preview button gives me the error:

Avisynth preview error: Could not load avisynth.dll! Cannot load library avisynth.dll:

avisynth.dll is in the Hybrid folder.

If I select the "Filter view" tick box and click the "Filter View" button, then the dual preview window opens, but because I am trying the bobbing settings (50fps), the original preview plays back at double speed. I can't compare the output between the two. Can you fix it so that both previews play back at the correct speed?

[Ahari]

Remember that my version only works because I have the 32 bit version of ffmpeg running

Yup, but there's no real way for me to address that issue, since you are the first one who reported to me having a problem with ffmpeg 64bit (which runs fine on my systems) -> if more people are having trouble with it I'll switch to ffmpeg 32bit as default.

Cu Selur

I guess that will force me to keep checking if the new ffmpeg has been fixed! If not I will just have to get the 32 bit version and carry on

[Ahari]

In general Hybrid automatically uses:
- 'Yadif' or 'Yadif (Avisynth) for interlaced input
- 'ivtc - filmding' or 'TIVTC (Avisynth)' for telecine content
(iirc. )

As I understand it, ivtc should not be used on PAL content. Am I correct? Does Hybrid allow for this and should I rather set it up to use one of the Yadif filters as default?

Or am I completely wrong?

[Selur]

If I select the "Filter view" tick box and click the "Filter View" button, then the dual preview window opens, but because I am trying the bobbing settings (50fps), the original preview plays back at double speed. I can't compare the output between the two. Can you fix it so that both previews play back at the correct speed?

I don't think I can, due to some restrictions of mplayer (which is used for preview). Remember the output now has twice the number of frames and double the frame rate.

If I use a bobbing deinterlacer like Yadif (Avisynth),...

Yadif (Avisynth), is only a bobber if you select mode = 1

Avisynth preview error: Could not load avisynth.dll! Cannot load library avisynth.dll:

that's really strange,.. your Hybrid folder does include the avisynth.dll and the DevIL.dll, does it?


-> DOH, that's my mistake (bug in the installer, I just realized,.. ) -> put the attached avsViewer.zip into your Hybrid folder. The installer always installs the 64bit version of it on 64bit systems, but it should always install the 32bit version. The 64bit version shouldn't be part of the current installer, since Hybrid should not use it.

[Ahari]

Yay, Avisynth viewer works now!

I see it is a frame by frame viewer with no play button or jump to frame number feature - is that correct?

Does this viewer only process the avisynth stuff for preview and nothing else?

If I want to preview everything, do I use the Filter view preview?

[Selur]

I see it is a frame by frame viewer with no play button or jump to frame number feature - is that correct?

You can move the slide , but yes it is intended as a frame-by-frame viewer.

Does this viewer only process the avisynth stuff for preview and nothing else?

it does not include the Stuff under 'Denoise/Sharpen' (because this will be applied through mplayer, but Avisynth filters should offer the same functionality and normally are preferred), 'Speed change' (because this will be applied through mplayer), Post-processing (because this will be applied through mplayer, but Avisynth filters should offer the same functionality and normally are preferred).

If I want to preview everything, do I use the Filter view preview?

You need to use the normal Preview if you combine avisynth filters with the filters in the other tabs.

If you enable 'Filter view' and:
- press 'Filter View' the normal MPlayer Preview will be used with a side-by-side (input/output representation)
- press 'Avisynt preview' the avsViewer Preview will be used with a side-by-side (input/output representation)

Cu Selur

[Ahari]

If I select the "Filter view" tick box and click the "Filter View" button, then the dual preview window opens, but because I am trying the bobbing settings (50fps), the original preview plays back at double speed. I can't compare the output between the two. Can you fix it so that both previews play back at the correct speed?

I don't think I can, due to some restrictions of mplayer (which is used for preview). Remember the output now has twice the number of frames and double the frame rate.

Pity! It would be nice to have the playbacks in sync. The player would have to playback each preview at the correct fps and I suppose that is not easy to do!

[Ahari]

- press 'Avisynt preview' the avsViewer Preview will be used with a side-by-side (input/output representation)

Cool - didn't know that. Unfortunately the Avisynth side-by-side viewer is also out of sync!

[Ahari]

If the content is interlaced I normally use for deinterlacing I use: QTGMC (with prest = Fast)

I am giving your suggestion a try (I normally use Yadif on mode 1) and notice that if I select QTGMC and tick "Bob", the output frame rate at the bottom of the same window stays at 25fps. Is that right or will the final video be at 50fps?

[Selur]

Pity! It would be nice to have the playbacks in sync.

I agree, problem is. That the syncing is done by mplayers (network sync methods: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/HTML/en/networksync.html) which are ment to playback the same content synchronized over a network, and there's no option to change the way the syncing is done. Writing my own crossplattform MediaPlayer (or a modified mplayer) is not really an option,... since it would require quite a while (probably a few month) to write one and my free time is all spend on Hybrid itself.

Unfortunately the Avisynth side-by-side viewer is also out of sync!

The problem is: How to playback a frame-by-frame view sync if the two view have different frame counts?
Only way I can think of is using multiple sliders,... but I have to think about how and if this can be implemented properly.
-> I added it to my 'possible improvements'-list, but don't hold your breath,..
--> forget it I just remembered why I didn't add it in the first place: memory consumption
Problem is to implement this I would have to open two avisynth instanced parallel and this will kill the 32bit limit of 2GB if multiple filters are used. (especially on HD content)

notice that if I select QTGMC and tick "Bob", the output frame rate at the bottom of the same window stays at 25fps. Is that right or will the final video be at 50fps?

I'll look into it,.. going to grab something to eat now


Cu Selur

[Ahari]

I agree, problem is. That the syncing is done by mplayers (network sync methods: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/HTML/en/networksync.html) which are ment to playback the same content synchronized over a network, and there's no option to change the way the syncing is done

I had a quick look at the link and it said that the syncing is based on the time code. Surely the time codes should be the same in both 25fps and 50fps videos?

[Selur]

Surely the time codes should be the same in both 25fps and 50fps videos?

Since the playback is not sync: No
I agree that I would have thought that this should work, but since there are no options to manipulate the syncing I can't really do a thing.

[Ahari]

Regarding the warning boxes for extensions that Hybrid can't handle - would it be easier to have a setting somewhere to just turn off the pop up boxes for this situation only since Hybrid already ignores the file types it can't handle - it is just the pop up boxes that are annoying.

[Selur]

That's the fun of having a Testversion of Hybrid of a newly added feature.
What do the warning boxes say exactly? I probably just forgot to disable the popups, in the version you have,..

[Ahari]

Please confirm if I understand this correctly: If I set a de-interlacer (any one) and "Auto deinterlacing" is checked (provided the source is flagged properly), Hybrid will only deinterlace if the source is interlaced. Is that right?

Also - will DeblockQED, DeHaloAlpha and grain handling do any harm if I just use them on all videos?

[Selur]

Hybrid will only deinterlace if the source is interlaced. Is that right?

yes (unless you also active 'force deinterlacing')

Also - will DeblockQED, DeHaloAlpha and grain handling do any harm if I just use them on all videos?

Not in a way that you can spot it, if you leave them at their default values.
(+ encoding will probably be a bit slower)

Cu Selur

[Ahari]

That's the fun of having a Testversion of Hybrid of a newly added feature.
What do the warning boxes say exactly? I probably just forgot to disable the popups, in the version you have,..

I must say it is fun!

The box says "Info" text is "Found no video or data in input."

If I try to add a jpg image it actually analyses it, but if I try to add it to the queue I get another Info box with the text: "Notice: You just added a job with an empty audio queue while audio handling != ignore. Maybe you forgot to put an audio stream in the audio queue"

The second one sounds like it would not be a good idea to try and add jpeg or jpg files to the queue anyway! Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree and should just set a bunch of offending extensions to ignore like you previously suggested?

[Ahari]

Btw: How do I add a folder containing files in one go?
Can I also add a folder with subfolders?

[Selur]

Okay, I'm a bit confused.
If you throw i.e. a pdf file at Hybrid, Hybrid will complain with something like 'Aborting since Hybrid could identify the frame count of the input(1)!' since it does not know that you only use .pdf as an extension for files it can't handle.
If you try to do stuff with Hybrid after this, everything is your problem, Hybrid told you that it can't handle the input.

If you add pdf to the extensions Hybrid should ignore, it should to that,... (oh, I see there's the problem, Hybrid does not always clean the input list properly,..) -> I'll look at it

Cu Selur

[Selur]

How do I add a folder containing files in one go?
Can I also add a folder with subfolders?

throw a folder at it and Hybrid should scan the folder and all it's subfolders,...

[Ahari]

throw a folder at it and Hybrid should scan the folder and all it's subfolders,...

Mine doesn't. Maybe the fact that the folders have jpg, txt and other file types in them?

How would I list the file extensions to ignore in the box under config settings if I just go that way??

[Ahari]

In general Hybrid automatically uses:
- 'Yadif' or 'Yadif (Avisynth) for interlaced input
- 'ivtc - filmding' or 'TIVTC (Avisynth)' for telecine content
(iirc. )

As I understand it, ivtc should not be used on PAL content. Am I correct? Does Hybrid allow for this and should I rather set it up to use one of the Yadif filters as default?

Or am I completely wrong?

Any comment on this post - I think it got lost in all our chatter!

[Ahari]

Off to fetch my son again! And rescue my mother in law who has broken down!! Will check back later...

[Selur]

As I understand it, ivtc should not be used on PAL content. Am I correct?

correct, normal PAL content should not be telecine.

Does Hybrid allow for this and should I rather set it up to use one of the Yadif filters as default?

if you feed Hybrid with an input file and the input is detected as interlaced and 'Auto Deinterlacing' is enabled, Hybrid will switch to yadif unless another 'same-framerate' interlaced is chosen. So it will switch from i.e. IVTC to yadif. If you select IVTC after the source was loaded Hybrid assumes you know what you are doing and will use IVTC.

Mine doesn't.

I'll look at it,.. (might that this is a feature I just thought I had added )

How would I list the file extensions to ignore in the box under config settings if I just go that way?

read the tooltip; you need to specify the extensions before loading the sources!

[Ahari]

correct, normal PAL content should not be telecine.

Great, I'm starting to get this!

if you feed Hybrid with an input file and the input is detected as interlaced and 'Auto Deinterlacing' is enabled, Hybrid will switch to yadif unless another 'same-framerate' interlaced is chosen. So it will switch from i.e. IVTC to yadif. If you select IVTC after the source was loaded Hybrid assumes you know what you are doing and will use IVTC.

I presume the default Yadif is just plain old Yadif, so if I set it to the Avisynth one with bobbing, it will then use that only when the source is correctly flagged interlaced?

read the tooltip; you need to specify the extensions before loading the sources!

Sorry, I clicked on the box and no tooltip came up, I didn't think to point at the text! The tooltip says to list them like this: mp4;mkv with no space after the ";". Is that right? I only ask because these things normally want a space.

[Selur]

I presume the default Yadif is just plain old Yadif, so if I set it to the Avisynth one with bobbing, it will then use that only when the source is correctly flagged interlaced?

Yadif (Avisynth) is the default if the avisynth extension is available if not Yadif will be used,..

no space after the ";". Is that right? I only ask because these things normally want a space.

!if you add a space the space will be part of the extension! -> normally you should add no spaces