capturing minidv tapes

[zoranb]

What is the easiest software to use for capturing footage from mini-dv tapes without any compression (capture in dv format)?

[Herve]

capturing footage from mini-dv tapes

iMovie (and everybody has an iMovie version into his hard drive, when you bought the computer )

bye

[zoranb]

capturing footage from mini-dv tapes

iMovie (and everybody has an iMovie version into his hard drive, when you bought the computer )

bye

I know regarding iMovie but the captured footage is not in dv format -if im not mistaking- but a compressed format, which is not lossless,and i dont want that!

[newlife007]

You may possibly want to look at Final Cut Express. I don't think Apple sells the Express version anymore but you can find Final Express 4 on Amazon and other sites. There are not alot of options available for lossless dv import for the mac. I have seen postings for iMovie 6 with options for importing and working with lossless dv, but those are hit an miss as well.

You can also look around for ffmpeg and the possibility of using it on the mac. Hope this gives you a few places to look.

[Herve]

iMovie does not compress DV streams
it only rewrap them (with newest versions of iMovie) to .mov file or save them as raw DV files (with lder versions).
No compression, no lose.

bye

[zoranb]

what are the differences between .mov and .dv files?

[Cornucopia]

To clarify: ALL DV-type video IS compressed. ~5.1:1 compared to uncompressed YUV 4:2:2. Even more compared to 4:4:4 RGB. But a simple transfer from camera to PC HDD to editor to final master in DV format is basically lossless (the process, not the format).

The difference between DV.MOV files and raw .DV files is this:

Raw .DV files are a single stream captured straight from the camera's incoming firewire stream, bit for bit. This includes Video+Audio+Metadata(timecode,etc) in an interleaved format. It has no standard movie/stream header info, other that what is normally retained in the metadata by the camera.

DV.MOV files take that raw DV and wrap it in a Quicktime .MOV container, usually in a Type2 format. This means it reads the audio stream from the interleaved DV stream and makes a separate copy, such that if you look at the streams list in the .MOV file/header, you'll see a DV video stream (actually V+A) and an Audio stream. So it duplicates the audio, to make for a file that is more understandable to stupid apps which were expecting separate V+A streams. Of course, being in a .MOV container it also now has stream headers and the like. More overhead/size, but more compatible.

This is similar to what goes on with DV.AVIs on a PC...

Scott

[rumplestiltskin]

.dv vs .mov - no real difference except that ".mov" is a container that can hold the dv-stream A/V.

The footage captured by a camcorder as dv-stream (which is used by most of the mini-dv tape camcorders) is compressed but, compared to AVC (H264), for example, it uses a different sort of compression. dv-stream frames are self-contained whereas AVC (and others using H264, MPEG2, et al) also compress temporally; that it, they contain keyframes which hold all data and only store the differences from that keyframe for 20-30 "frames" and then store an entire keyframe again (and repeat the process). This is why this format can't do frame-accurate editing without either decompressing the video/audio streams (to something like Apple intermediate Codec or even DV-Stream) or doing this massive decompression job for portions of your footage "live" when you request an edit or effect (and then require very powerful machines to do this "live").

Hope this helps.

[zoranb]

Ok thanx guys, and let me make my question a little more clear in what i want to do.
My minidv camera was was damaged and the tech guy told me that the reason for this was the use of non Sony/Panasonic minidv-tapes or older mini dvtapes and the fact that i was making playback from camera!
1. is this true cause i have one or two maxwell tapes but don't really use them!
2. where (to what medium) and in what format do u think i should store all this footage so that i don't use the camera for playback?

[techiejustin]

Ok thanx guys, and let me make my question a little more clear in what i want to do.
My minidv camera was was damaged and the tech guy told me that the reason for this was the use of non Sony/Panasonic minidv-tapes or older mini dvtapes and the fact that i was making playback from camera!
1. is this true cause i have one or two maxwell tapes but don't really use them!
2. where (to what medium) and in what format do u think i should store all this footage so that i don't use the camera for playback?

Damaged because you used another brand of tapes? Absolutely not. You probably just need to run a miniDV head cleaner. If you're recording over and over on the same miniDV tapes - stop. They are probably wearing out.

Having said that, download and install Apple's Firewire SDK. It has some small apps that will let you capture from your video camera directly to a DV file. No screwing around with iMovie. Apple's Firewire SDK is free.

[zoranb]

Yeah thats what i think regarding the tapes and i never record over one mini dv tape, i only use them once to write footage, then i store them and only do playbacks. Im thinking to fix the camera on my own but have no idea how to.

Is there anyone that can help me on old mini-dv camera? I have a Sony TRV33 that displays the eject icon when i try to use it and will not let me record!

How do i make a head cleaner?

[techiejustin]

Yeah thats what i think regarding the tapes and i never record over one mini dv tape, i only use them once to write footage, then i store them and only do playbacks. Im thinking to fix the camera on my own but have no idea how to.

Is there anyone that can help me on old mini-dv camera? I have a Sony TRV33 that displays the eject icon when i try to use it and will not let me record!

How do i make a head cleaner?

Try the RESET button - underneath the LCD panel bottom left of the DSPL/BATT INFO.

you don't make a head cleaner, you buy one. just search for miniDV head cleaner on eBay or see if your local store has one.

[zoranb]

Tried the reset button but no luck!
You think this eject icon that is displayed has to do with head cleaning?

[techiejustin]

Tried the reset button but no luck!
You think this eject icon that is displayed has to do with head cleaning?

Probably not. Something could actually be broken. Did the camcorder actually reset? Do you have to enter your date information?

The head cleaning tape has to be "played." Basically what you do is, put the head cleaner in, and play it for a few seconds. However, if the camcorder actually won't play a tape, then that's not the immediate problem.

can you post a little picture of the eject error message?

[zoranb]

Tried the reset button but no luck!
You think this eject icon that is displayed has to do with head cleaning?

Probably not. Something could actually be broken. Did the camcorder actually reset? Do you have to enter your date information?

The head cleaning tape has to be "played." Basically what you do is, put the head cleaner in, and play it for a few seconds. However, if the camcorder actually won't play a tape, then that's not the immediate problem.

can you post a little picture of the eject error message?

yes it did reset, i had to actually enter dates n stuff
there isnt a message, its only the eject button displayed in the camera viewfinder display and blinking and there is also this beeping sound thats heard, also sometimes it works as it has no problems and other times it doesnt!

[techiejustin]

Tried the reset button but no luck!
You think this eject icon that is displayed has to do with head cleaning?

Probably not. Something could actually be broken. Did the camcorder actually reset? Do you have to enter your date information?

The head cleaning tape has to be "played." Basically what you do is, put the head cleaner in, and play it for a few seconds. However, if the camcorder actually won't play a tape, then that's not the immediate problem.

can you post a little picture of the eject error message?

yes it did reset, i had to actually enter dates n stuff
there isnt a message, its only the eject button displayed in the camera viewfinder display and blinking and there is also this beeping sound thats heard, also sometimes it works as it has no problems and other times it doesnt!

As soon as you put a tape in, the camera wants to spit it out? Sounds like it could be a bad sensor.
If you can buy a cheap MiniDV head cleaner, try it. Otherwise I'm afraid your TRV33 is broken. Assuming repair prices are similar to those in the US, it probably isn't worth repairing.

Maybe try blowing it out with a can of compressed air. Perhaps some dust or dirt is covering a sensor.

[zoranb]

Tried the reset button but no luck!
You think this eject icon that is displayed has to do with head cleaning?

Probably not. Something could actually be broken. Did the camcorder actually reset? Do you have to enter your date information?

The head cleaning tape has to be "played." Basically what you do is, put the head cleaner in, and play it for a few seconds. However, if the camcorder actually won't play a tape, then that's not the immediate problem.

can you post a little picture of the eject error message?

yes it did reset, i had to actually enter dates n stuff
there isnt a message, its only the eject button displayed in the camera viewfinder display and blinking and there is also this beeping sound thats heard, also sometimes it works as it has no problems and other times it doesnt!

As soon as you put a tape in, the camera wants to spit it out? Sounds like it could be a bad sensor.
If you can buy a cheap MiniDV head cleaner, try it. Otherwise I'm afraid your TRV33 is broken. Assuming repair prices are similar to those in the US, it probably isn't worth repairing.

Maybe try blowing it out with a can of compressed air. Perhaps some dust or dirt is covering a sensor.

Hmm you could be right, but where is this sensor located so i can blow it out with compressed air?

[techiejustin]

There is no way to know where the sensor is. Try blowing the whole thug out and see what happens. However, still try using the head cleaner. If you can get it to play with the head cleaning tape in there.

[zoranb]

Having said that, download and install Apple's Firewire SDK. It has some small apps that will let you capture from your video camera directly to a DV file. No screwing around with iMovie. Apple's Firewire SDK is free.

What exactly is Apple FW SDK?

[techiejustin]

Having said that, download and install Apple's Firewire SDK. It has some small apps that will let you capture from your video camera directly to a DV file. No screwing around with iMovie. Apple's Firewire SDK is free.

What exactly is Apple FW SDK?

Firewire Software Development Kit.

http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Developer-Tools/Apple-FireWire-SDK-X.shtml

[zoranb]

but what will i do with it? im not a developer!

[Cornucopia]

Ok thanx guys, and let me make my question a little more clear in what i want to do.
My minidv camera was was damaged and the tech guy told me that the reason for this was the use of non Sony/Panasonic minidv-tapes or older mini dvtapes and the fact that i was making playback from camera!
1. is this true cause i have one or two maxwell tapes but don't really use them!
2. where (to what medium) and in what format do u think i should store all this footage so that i don't use the camera for playback?

Damaged because you used another brand of tapes? Absolutely not. You probably just need to run a miniDV head cleaner...

WRONG!

It has been a longstanding fact in the video industry that tapes use a "lubricant" on their backing to facilitate non-stick, fluid playback of the tape across the playback heads. But there is not just ONE lubricant chemical formulation - there are many. Some are at odds with other formulations.

It's been clear from many professional users' experience that if you stick to one of these 2 habits, you're best at avoiding gunking up your playback heads:
1. ALWAYS USE THE SAME tape formulation (brand & quality level) - no mixing of the various lubricant formulations, less buildup of bad interaction byproducts
2. ALWAYS USE DIFFERENT tape formulations (cycle through the brands, always using highest quality level) - no one brand has a chance to build up to a level that "controls" the interaction with the playback heads. They kind of cancel each other out.

If you: mainly use one brand but occasionally use another brand or 2, that is the worst option (and I'm guessing the one which happened here). Result: gunked up heads & rollers.

**********

Also, head cleaning tapes can often do more harm than good. Correct head cleaning uses non-linted swabs soaked in FreonTF, DenaturedAlcohol, or similar non-residue, non-abrasive cleaner. This is best done by someone who KNOWS what they're doing (and rollers should also be done at that time using a different formulation that doesn't suck out the moisture required of rollers). Using head cleaning tapes is like using a kitchen knife to do surgery with. It's not a scalpel, but "it's what's commonly available". Is that really a good excuse? IMO, only in a dire emergency.

Solution? Get a professional to clean the heads & rollers correctly, and then diagnose the machine for tension & sensor problems (which are quite fixable). If you need to go much beyond that, it makes more sense to get a new/different machine.

Scott

[zoranb]

scott thanx for the info but are u certain this is a head issue? if not what else might it be?
remember there are times that it works and other times it doesn't, some times when inserting a new tape starting from the beginning it will work and after 2min it will stop if that rings a bell

[Cornucopia]

Certain, No. But your "after 2 min" does ring a bell. My educated, experienced guess: Gunked heads/rollers/tension guides/sensors to start with...

so,
Step 1: Stop using tape head cleaners
Step 2: Stop trying to fix this yourself
Step 3: Go to a reputable (they must be able to kindly demonstrate -with scientific/engineering basis - how they are going to go about diagnosing & fixing, and if it's quite different from what I've already suggested, steer clear of them) professional who will clean the heads, sensors & tape-path rollers
Step 4: Have them diagnose with one of THEIR KNOWN GOOD test tapes to see if it correctly plays back, and give you estimates about what else to do if it doesn't
Step 5: After having exhausted all else, and if it's going to cost more than a replacement from ebay, go that route!

Scott

[zoranb]

I wanted to fix it on my own because they ask for 120$ which i believe is quite expensive for that type of issue!

[Cornucopia]

For head/roller/guide cleaning? Yes, that's expensive.
For head cleaning + diagnosis + possible supplemental repairs that's cheap.

But I sincerely doubt you'll find a DECENT replacement deck for $120, so maybe that's still the way to go.

If you haven't done this before and SCREW up your own deck by mistake, your replacement/repair costs will probably be much higher.

Remember, those devices were not meant/built to be serviced by consumers.

Scott

[techiejustin]

but what will i do with it? im not a developer!

That's fine. It comes with a few apps you can use for capturing video, rather than using iMovie.

[techiejustin]

Ok thanx guys, and let me make my question a little more clear in what i want to do.
My minidv camera was was damaged and the tech guy told me that the reason for this was the use of non Sony/Panasonic minidv-tapes or older mini dvtapes and the fact that i was making playback from camera!
1. is this true cause i have one or two maxwell tapes but don't really use them!
2. where (to what medium) and in what format do u think i should store all this footage so that i don't use the camera for playback?

Damaged because you used another brand of tapes? Absolutely not. You probably just need to run a miniDV head cleaner...

WRONG!

It has been a longstanding fact in the video industry that tapes use a "lubricant" on their backing to facilitate non-stick, fluid playback of the tape across the playback heads. But there is not just ONE lubricant chemical formulation - there are many. Some are at odds with other formulations.

I completely disagree.
"damaged" from my understanding means a part must be replaced. Is your car damaged when it gets dirty? What do you do when a bird takes a dump on it? I run my Acura through the $6.00 car wash down the street.

It's been clear from many professional users' experience that if you stick to one of these 2 habits, you're best at avoiding gunking up your playback heads:
1. ALWAYS USE THE SAME tape formulation (brand & quality level) - no mixing of the various lubricant formulations, less buildup of bad interaction byproducts
2. ALWAYS USE DIFFERENT tape formulations (cycle through the brands, always using highest quality level) - no one brand has a chance to build up to a level that "controls" the interaction with the playback heads. They kind of cancel each other out.

If you: mainly use one brand but occasionally use another brand or 2, that is the worst option (and I'm guessing the one which happened here). Result: gunked up heads & rollers.

**********

Also, head cleaning tapes can often do more harm than good. Correct head cleaning uses non-linted swabs soaked in FreonTF, DenaturedAlcohol, or similar non-residue, non-abrasive cleaner. This is best done by someone who KNOWS what they're doing (and rollers should also be done at that time using a different formulation that doesn't suck out the moisture required of rollers). Using head cleaning tapes is like using a kitchen knife to do surgery with. It's not a scalpel, but "it's what's commonly available". Is that really a good excuse? IMO, only in a dire emergency.

Solution? Get a professional to clean the heads & rollers correctly, and then diagnose the machine for tension & sensor problems (which are quite fixable). If you need to go much beyond that, it makes more sense to get a new/different machine.

Scott

Getting a professional to do anything to that little TRV will probably cost an arm and a leg, especially in Europe.

I have used head cleaning tapes on 8mm, hi8, D8, and miniDV camcorders without a problem. It certainly won't hurt since his camcorder is already toasted.

[zoranb]

the fact that one time it works and the other time it doesn't help in deciding whether its dirt or broken?

[Cornucopia]

I completely disagree.
"damaged" from my understanding means a part must be replaced. Is your car damaged when it gets dirty? What do you do when a bird takes a dump on it? I run my Acura through the $6.00 car wash down the street.

...

Getting a professional to do anything to that little TRV will probably cost an arm and a leg, especially in Europe.

I have used head cleaning tapes on 8mm, hi8, D8, and miniDV camcorders without a problem. It certainly won't hurt since his camcorder is already toasted.

If you had a car with an old carburator and the air filter was SO GUNKED that no air came in, the car wouldn't start, well that is a simple cleaning job (or consumer replacement of the air filter). But if the carburator had a stuck valve because something got bent, you're looking at a job that, while still minor, would probably need to be done by a trained professional with the correct tools.

Consumer camcorders may seem "cheap" but they are still precision tools that require special methods & repair tools to work on them correctly. Sure, they might end up costing more than the cost of the TRV - that's the way modern electronics are being sold! But if that particular item is still of value (more than simply replacing it), you pay the piper what they charge.

An "arm and a leg"? When you don't even live there? Come on...

@zoranb,
The fact that it works sometimes and not others tells me that it's more a dirt/alignment/tension/heat issue than something more permanent.

Scott