help needed for hybrid Pal dvd with issues

[spiritgumm]

I bought a Pal dvd which I was going to encode to Ntsc but it seems to have both progressive and interlaced frames, and maybe dropped frames. Plays fairly smoothly on a PC, but jerky every couple seconds on my hacked dvd player.
Was an episode from a 1960s USA TV show (filmed). I dont know if the Pal company used a telecined copy or what. It seems to have the same runtime and audio pitch as the original - I compared it to a home TV recording (which is too dark). I tried TDeint(full=false) and some other basic bobbers but didnt produce a smooth output.
Thank for any help. Source sample:
VTS_01_1.demuxed.m2v

[Bonie81]

@spiritgumm
Sample submitted by you....
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First

seems progressive encoded as (fake) interlaced to me, it is not hybrid. It also seems that frames are dropped, had already gone poor de-interlacing prior to last encoding, it also contains bad ghosting effects. I do not think AVISynth can help you much here!
GooD Luck!

[spiritgumm]

thanks for the info (although the smiley face seems out of place for bad news).
The reason it looked hybrid to me was when I stepped thru it on AvsP with Separatefields, some groups of fields progressed regardless of the field order, and others did the interlace dance when set to top field.

I was afraid the dropped frames was from a previous screwup. I dont understand how a professional company would make this mistake. Wouldnt it play as bad on a region 2 player as my hacked player? Ironically the case sleeve says the disc is compatible with various dvd devices, too.

How does one know when progressive was encoded as interlaced?

[Bonie81]

I was afraid the dropped frames was from a previous screwup. I dont understand how a professional company would make this mistake. Wouldnt it play as bad on a region 2 player as my hacked player? Ironically the case sleeve says the disc is compatible with various dvd devices, too.

just a guess, seems like VHS to DVD transfer poor resolution.
if you are Windows, try MeGUI. MeGUI has some auto-detection mode (never used - heard or read). See what MeGUI auto-detection says...
some MEGUI or AVISynth expert can give you to better solution than mine.

How does one know when progressive was encoded as interlaced?

Going through each frame, plus matter of experience.
Please Read More details on Donald Graft Web-Site with pictorious illustrations, you can able to find difference by yourself.
or scan through Jagabo's threads here on Video Help, Some where he showed with pics or clips how to decide. Hope links to pics or clips still alive.

[spiritgumm]

thanks again.

[jagabo]

It's a progressive source but the pulldown pattern is pretty random. The following leaves you with 25 fps with just a few duplicate and dropped frames.

Mpeg2Source("VTS_01_1.demuxed(1).d2v") 
Yadif(mode=1)
TDecimate(mode=1, cycler=25, cycle=50)

You might try playing around with the cycler parameter and longer sequences.

[Bonie81]

@jagabo
Tks!

I bought a Pal dvd which I was going to encode to Ntsc....

it seems like he wants to convert it into NTSC (720x480, 29.97fps)as well.
duplicating frames may lead more ghosting effects here....i guess.

@spiritgumm
Just added few more lines to jagabo's script for NTSC conversion.
Try this in a short sample of 10 minutes, and see how it goes...

Mpeg2Source("VTS_01_1.demuxed(1).d2v")
Yadif(mode=1)
TDecimate(mode=1, cycler=25, cycle=50)
Bob(height=480)
BicubicResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(60000, 1001)
SeparateFields.SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

this may amplify ghosting little bit, as sample contains ghosting.
if so, please provide your feed back on your output - final conversion or submit final sample.

[jagabo]

I would just resize to 720x480 and encode progressive at 25 fps. Then use DgPulldown to add pulldown flags for 29.97 fps DVD. That's more bitrate efficient. If you really want hard pulldown:

Mpeg2Source("VTS_01_1.demuxed(1).d2v")
Yadif(mode=1)
TDecimate(mode=1, cycler=25, cycle=50)
BilinearResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(60000,1001)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

I didn't see any ghosting in the sample.

[Bonie81]

I would just resize to 720x480 and encode progressive at 25 fps. Then use DgPulldown to add pulldown flags for 29.97 fps DVD.

it is really better suggestion to follow.
jagabo's suggestion as above and script will produce output of desired quality. Nothing to loose in trying.

By ghoting, I mean.... Frame 171... but there are lot more not clearly visible.
Ghosting Effect in DeInterlacing

Following is the result of proper deInterlacing (used jagabo's script) maintain same frame size as PAL.
DeInterlaced
Result : Ghosting persist because of improperly encoded source video.


@spiritgumm
You already have poorly encoded video as source, get properly interlaced encodec PAL video as second source, try jagabo's script and suggestion on both sources. You will see the difference what AVISynth can do!

================================================== =============
Bunch of CLI encoders (even with the GUI) did the job as your sample. The results were poorly interlaced encoded video with progressive tag, and vice versa. That's why I kept Shouting @ Developers until I switched to something better, but, that was the time nobody believed it.If developers could have taken enough care - and encoders could have encoded proprly, HyBrid-Mixed videos would not exist.

[jagabo]

I'm seeing no residual interlaced frames after my script. Frame 171:



But there are missing frames and duplicate frames. For example, between frames 12 and 13 there is a missing frame. Between frames 124 and 125 there are six missing frames (I think the film bounce distortion caused this). And frames 130 and 131 are duplicates. Different methods of decimation may work better. For example, I found that trimming away 16 frames after Yadif fixed most of the above problems.

Mpeg2Source("VTS_01_1.demuxed(1).d2v") 
Yadif(mode=1)
Trim(16,0)
TDecimate(mode=1, cycler=25, cycle=50)

[Bonie81]

It seems like your VD frame 171 is frame 169 for me in AVIDemux so check frame 173.
I will check later on this week on Windows, at this moment I do not have access to Win machine to check this one out.


My output is also same as yours using your script. Only difference in frame number, mine is 169, seems AVIDemux removed initial 2 frames or whatever. But, total difference is 5 frames in short clip.

Proper DeInterlacing using jagabo's script.

I already stated before...

try jagabo's script and suggestion on both sources.

Hopefully he will get better results with your script. He could get excellent results, if his original source was properly encoded like this frame in question. But, who cares, where any thing sales!

You are getting total 264 frames in VD, and I am getting total 259 in AVIDemux.
I will go-thru' each frame sequence and try to figure out what is missing gonna take little bit more time.

[jagabo]

Frame 173 has no comb artifacts either. Like I said, I see absolutely no comb artifacts or ghosting after my script.

[spiritgumm]

thank you both for all the work on this. I would have used DGpulldown if the corrected video was 25 fps (since it's the same runtime as the original), but the missing frames makes it unacceptable.
I emailed the company but dont expect an informed reply. I dont how this would play correctly on a region 2 player, but maybe they only examine their dvds on computer monitors which sometimes minimizes defects.

[jagabo]

It's just a little jerky on a region 2 player. Most people probably wouldn't even notice. Do a simple bob and play it at 50 fps, you'll see.

[spiritgumm]

does 50 fps simulate what they'd see on 50 hz TV?

[jagabo]

Yes. Although, if your monitor runs at 60 Hz you'll get some additional judder. Speeding it up to 60 Hz will be better show the smoothness of watching the 50 Hz video on a 50 Hz display.

AssumeBFF()
Bob()
AssumeFPS(60)

[spiritgumm]

thanks. It's an improvement over the dvd, but still bugs me.